💔 Bastion ISN’T being forgotten, he’s being ignored

On behalf of Pharah, who wrote this post but is not trust level 3 and cannot post links, but this issue has dragged out for over a year and a 1/3rd, and it means a lot to a small playerbase that still tries to play Bastion, in his current, unfortunate form.

Yes, I, Pharah, wrote this post however this will be my last one. I have cried out loudly and if this thread doesn’t get through, then it proves my title correct: Bastion is being ignored. Too many great people have supported Bastion and have advocated for buffs and making Bastion a better hero, and the amount of dedication and support is unfathomable. I can’t keep making posts that won’t get through when some of the largest threads talking about Bastion have gone unnoticed, either that or untalked about.

Chapter list:

  • Introduction
      1. a) The TL;DR of his current state
      1. b) Pirate Ship is a byproduct of the map, Junkertown, and it’s now a failure because of…
  • The longest silence
      1. a) He doesn’t even excel in his arbitrary niche.
  • HE SUCKS IN THIS META, I KNOW!!! But his rework and nerfs are what caused the floodgates of Dive to be opened
  • This Community Knows what Bastion needs.
      1. a) Even the pro, Seagull, a Bastion player, knows what he needs.
  • !!The Basics of what Bastion needs!!
      1. a) Pharah’s rework additions and changes.
  • Or… We give him the Mercy treatment. (Highly liked by Bastion players)
      1. a) Other community Suggestions compiled by SunderGold
  • A Tankyou

Introduction:

The previous " :stop_sign: Bastion is being forgotten" thread has reached almost 5000 replies, and 370+ likes. Still no response:


1. a) The TL;DR of his current state:

His rework brought around changes to Sentry (and Tank), when only Recon needed buffs, because of how clunky it was to use.

They did a 180 on Bastion, by buffing Recon, but absolutely destroyed Sentry in the process. ASK ANY BASTION MAIN/PLAYER AND THEY WILL SAY 35% IRONCLAD WAS A MISTAKE. He never needed a change to Sentry. THATS what broke him into OP territory and THEN nerfed him down into the gutter. Prior, a Bastion was rewarded:

  • for aim, tight spread
  • for positioning, headshots
  • for no mobility, the highest damage potential in the game, which wasn’t wasted like how his current spread is.

Then within a week he became the game’s most hated hero :medal_sports: and was nerfed, to a near-unplayable state.

20% IC only equates to ~70 total health, meaning Bastion has 370 health in Sentry. That 70HP is moot when 35% IC was 150 health. The 35% was calculated from his old Tank armor that he used to get while ulting.

The problem with 35% IC was that he could survive ults, and with a nano, a Dva bomb point-blank.

HOWEVER, the current problem with IC is that it only makes him easier to pocket. the 70 HP is easily destroyed, but if you can keep a Bastion up indefinably then the 20% IC reduces damage RATHER THAN acting as a buffer to his HP, which is a major reason why Pirate Ship is so effective.

You just plop a Mercy behind him and he’s taking minimal damage because his IC is reducing incoming damage, ALL WHILE Mercy’s heal is acting as a sudo-DR too, since her healing is also negating some of his incoming damage. As it stands a charging Rein wins against a Bastion who isn’t being pocketed. A Hog will win against a Bastion that isn’t being pocketed. A Hanzo will win against a Bastion despite him being pocketed.

This doesn’t even cover what happened to his Tank mode. Tank used to get 150 extra armor, and he got it at the start of his ult, much like how Torblet and Winston do currently. Press Q, get that dank armor. HOWEVER it was balanced because he has a 1.5 second warmup time, where he was immobile. 150 Armor on Tank was never a problem. But yet that got gutted when IC was dropped down nearly in half, to 20%.


1. b) Pirate Ship is a byproduct of the map, Junkertown, and it’s now a failure because of…

Pirate ship is just Orisa slapped on Protect the President “meta” with a flat payload and awkward point A layout on Junkertown.

The reasons as to why it was effective are these:

  • IC making him easier to pocket, especially from Mercy.
  • Junkertown point A has poor cover and poor high ground to contest and drop down onto a Pirate Ship.
  • At the time, there were no other barrier busters, so the counter to 2 barriers were a mirror comp, but it proved to be ineffective since like I said, there is horrible cover.
    • His damage was severely gutted, so he needs more time to kill enemies, which is why Orisa and Rein babysit him, so he could survive a little bit longer to get a kill.

All of that has changed now.

  • Hanzo’s E is worse than Scatter ever was against Bastion (You really have to try to miss 6 shots on a stationary target)
    • Hanzo is also the king of corner peaking, so Bastion can’t even reposition out of Sentry before Hanzo has already landed 2 shots on him.
  • Junk has 2 mines, so his damage is higher, and Junk was always a Bastion counter.
  • Brig’s armor hurts Bastion’s gun even more, since at medium range his spread is too wide and only a few bullets will hit a target.
    • Her barrier also adds an extra 600HP into a meta that is reliant on barriers, which means he needs more time to destroy enemy barriers. Time that he doens’t have
  • Tracer may have had her pulsebomb nerfed, but she is still too hard for him to hit at any range due to his spread. Despite her nerf, she can still reliable kill him if she unloads 1 clip either before or after the Bastion is stuck with the bomb.

To finish the clickbait title of this chapter, Pirate Ship is a byproduct of the map, Junkertown, and it’s now a failure because of how the meta has progressed and how weak Bastion is, and keep getting.


The longest silence

He was overly buffed on February 28th, a day I know by heart because I knew 35% IC was too much with everyone else.

He was nerfed a week later, on March 5th, a day I also know by heart because it was the last time he would be relevant until Pirate Ship. (Since they couldn’t hotfix how broken he was, the console platforms had to wait another 3 weeks after he was gutted on PC.)

He was not acknowledged, and still hasn’t. The last time I can recall one of them typing out B A S T I O N was back on the old forums in a thread that talked about Bastion and how bad his recon + self heal were.

He was not acknowledged by the devs even during this current F-Tier Renaissance. Hanzo and Sym were said to get reworks, and Mei, Sombra, DF, and Torb would all get buffs.

So… Radio silence.

And if OW data sites like Overbuff go down due to hidden profiles, then we will never know how far Bastion will fall again, after the Sombra buffs.


2. a) He doesn’t even excel in his arbitrary niche.

Blizzard gutted his damage to become a barrier buster… But when is that going to happen? It takes at least 4 seconds to go through a rein shield, and Orisa has hers up so often that by the time he shreds it she can have another one ready, which means she can protect her teammates and have them shoot at and kill the Bastion before he can finish any of them.

Combine both of them, and he’s dead before he can break through one of them.

In the niche of barrier busting, Sym has now passed him, along with Hanzo and Junkrat.

They are all more mobile and have more consistent DPS.

  • Sym can charge her gun off of the barriers now, Tele to get behind or above the enemy.
  • Hanzo’s E couldn’t miss a brick wall from a mile away, Or if he saves his E he can shred said tank via leaping through their barrier.
  • Junk having another ~120 mine, and the knockback it brings which can knock up a Rein, or melt Orisa.

Having a stationary target with the highest DPS in the game dying to a suicidal Rein charging is anything except balance. Now with Hammond, it’ll be interesting to see how Bastion plays out against him.

The power creep is REAL, as a DPS hero with the most damage in the game is being outclassed by burst-damage heros who have gotten buffs, both to their damage AND mobility added/buffed.


HE SUCKS IN THIS META, I KNOW!!! But his rework and nerfs are what caused the floodgates of Dive to be opened

Fun fact: The time Bastion was reworked gutted was when Dive took off. Bastion Hard countered BOTH Winston and Dva to the point of perfection, but Dva’s 3DM and several buffs to Winston alongside Bastion’s demise are what made Dive a staple for over 9 months.

I don’t expect Bastion to win against current Hanzo, but as it stands Bastion’s nerfs caused dive, and it frustrates me knowing that Blizzard will only ever see Bastion as a “barrier buster” when he can’t even pressure Rein and Brig in this meta.

This leaves that sour taste in my mouth because Dive could have been put back in it’s place if Bastion got buffed over the addition of Brig.

Despite Hanzo destroying him into rubbish, Bastion still needs to be looked at since he’s been in this horrid state for over 16 months.


This Community Knows what Bastion needs

So awhile back, I (Pharah) made a thread that listed 2 polls:

One for the Non-Bastion players: https://www.strawpoll.me/15610416

One for the Bastion players: https://www.strawpoll.me/15610417

Together, between a minimum of 211 Bastion and NON-Bastion players…

211 Players have voted for a reduction in Spread, and Headshots added back.

Following that, people have advocated for more Tank Ironclad AND an extra ability on E (Some even proposing a nerfed Tank mode on E so he has 3 modes, with his Tank mode giving him more mobility in a game that punishes heros with no mobility).

This isn’t skewed data where the Bastion mains want him OP and to roflstomp every enemy team, this is 2 sides coming together and agreeing on what Bastion needs to get better. The Bastion mains aren’t delusional, and recognize many aspects about Bastion and playing against him.


3. a) Even the pro, Seagull, a Bastion player, knows what he needs.

HUGE thanks to Astrobiologist for donating to Seagull (SHUSH this isn’t about Mercy nor his involvement) and asking Seagull on his opinion on Bastion, and some possible solutions like Nerfed Tank Mode on E. Seagull is known for picking up Bastion from time to time, and so he brings up some valid points.

Part 1:

Part 2:

Seagull agrees that Headshots should be added back.

So between NON-Bastion players, Bastion players, and one of the best Bastion players in the world, agree that HS should be added back! WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR?!?!?!


The Basics of what Bastion needs.

First off, Bastion needs more independence. OLD Bastion could be pocketed, yes, but his IC didn’t exist making him extremely fragile, but in return he could kill anything that crossed his sights. THAT promoted skilled Bastion play because good Bastions needed to know the correct positions, and how to position correctly because they would die if they didn’t. In return, he had reliable Sentry damage to kill things with. When you have the highest DPS in the game, what good does Mercy’s damage boost do? Nothing. But it worked in Pirate Ship because Bastion is so god awful by himself that you need 1 comp for him to even have a chance at being viable.

Personally, I think IC should be removed from Sentry, as it promotes too much unhealthy aspects for the game, like how easy he is to pocket, thus hurting Bastion’s rep and balance in the process.

His spread shouldn’t be straight up reverted, as I do believe there is a way to make him better, but here is the rundown:

Recon:

  • fine :wink:

Comments: Recon is decent right now, and it should NOT be the main focus of Bastion nor his buffs. Any better and it might rival/overpower Soldier 76, which is another power creep, and one that we don’t need.

Sentry:

  • 40% less spread (his original nerf was 50% more spread, so it leaves him more accurate but not a laser sniper like he used to be)
  • HS added back, but at 1.5x the value. With the amount of bullets he pumps out, I agree that 2x would be a nightmare to tanks, so I feel like 1.5x is a great compromise.

Comments: Sentry is the gist of Bastion, and so it needs to be more reliable than it currently is. HS added back will make him feel more consistent at killing aggressive tanks (charging Reins, ballsy Hogs), and his spread decrease will reward aim like how it used to. The current “spray and pray” just feels AWFUL.

Tank:

  • 35% OR 30% IC added back, to make up for the old 150 armor he lost after the IC conversion, and then 20% IC nerf.
  • Instant IC upon transforming.

Comments: 150 Tank armor was NEVER a problem, so I think the 35% -> 20% IC nerf just glossed over Tank and thus it was unjustly nerfed. Even if the 30% IC is a problem, his ult only lasts 8 seconds (11 including the 2 times he transforms for 1.5 seconds), thus it’s not permanent like how 35% IC was on Sentry.

This is what most Bastion players see fit, and some aspects from non-Bastion players like how HS are added back, lower spread, and more IC on tank. However, this is also the basic outline, as I still see some glaring problems that I’ll list below.


4. a) Pharah’s rework additions and changes.

I’ll cover the problems as I go along. Most changes above have been brought down and included just so you can see the whole picture.

Recon:

  • fine :wink:

Sentry:

  • 40% less spread
  • HS added back, but at 1.5x the value.
  • IC removed entirely

Tank:

  • 35% OR 30% IC
  • Instant IC upon transforming.

Other:

  • Self-repair:
    • no longer has a cast time
  • 100/200 HP
  • 50% Ironclad when transforming
  • Slides off the payload when in Sentry

Overall Comments: The goal of removing IC in Sentry is to give him less sustainability in that mode, HOWEVER it is compensated with 50% IC while transforming. That way he isn’t protected while in Sentry, but rather WHILE SETTING UP. Self-repair just feels clunky, so making it more responsive will help with making it more reliable. His health adjustment is just a little compensation for his already huge hitbox. Then the icing on the cake is how Sentry slides off the payload. If Bastion is immobile, he should stay immobile. Pretty much every Bastion player dislikes Pirate Ship, and so this will be a natural counter to it. Plus with less IC on Sentry, Bastion will be able to reconfigure a lot more and not just camp in Sentry.

Quite a mouthful, but I hope that you can see where I’m coming from with these ideas that I have.


Or… We give him the Mercy treatment. (Highly liked by Bastion players)

Put Tank on E…

WHOA WHOA WHIO, I’m not insane for putting this here, as there will be MANY CHANGES to the point that it won’t be a Mercy V2 where he’s meta because his ult got moved to his E.

Since many people already agree that he needs an E ability, it seems reasonable to put Tank on E, but put restrictions on it so it’s not as OP as it’s current Ult form.

Now, the common idea is that Tank gets put on E, but the fine detail varies from player to player.

Tank on E:

  • 40-120 damage per shell
    • each shot has to warm up to reach its full damage. This will make it like Widow but without the instakill, despite it being a projectile skillshot.
  • 3 shots in reserve, like Tracer’s blinks. (he can fire all 3 at once, and if all 3 are direct shots then it will only do 120 damage, the same as 1 fully charged shots.
  • 1 second configuration (like current Sentry).
  • 5 seconds per shell reload (15 for all 3)

Comments: This will give Bastion some more damage potential outside of Sentry, as well as giving Bastion a skillful mobility ability, since many Bastion mains and players “rocket jump” while ulting, allowing him to reach high grounds.

New Ult: Overclock.

Bastion’s new Ultimate would instead improve the performance of all of its modes, returning Sentry Mode and Tank Mode to their former glory for a short time and making the Recon Rifle better as well.

  • 12 second duration
  • 50% faster transformations
  • 25% Ironclad

Recon:

  • no spread
  • 25% Faster reload

Sentry:

  • 50% Faster reload
  • 25% faster firerate

Tank:

  • 3 seconds per shell reload
  • 60-205 damage per shot

This is still very basic, as I don’t believe anyone has laid out a common agreement for how Tank on E would work, but I figured I’d give my take on it and see the reactions and discussions from it.

With more skill added to his kit, he won’t have to camp in sentry and get pocketed and babysat by 4 teammates for him to be viable, as he will be far more mobile and interesting to play.


5. a) Other community Suggestions compiled by SunderGold

This thread lists out many other ideas, and I highly recommend that you check it out as it lists many unique ideas that revolve around Bastion and him getting buffed and/or reworked.

Then also GrantMan has made some threads discussing Bastions TTK and Tank on E.


A Tankyou

Very punny ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

But I have seen a huge amount of support for getting Bastion noticed and buffed so he is better. So first off, Tankyou all who have participated in the original megathread.

:heart:Tankyou for those who have voted on the polls that asked how you wanted Bastion buffed, and for those who had unique suggestions that explained below (:heavy_heart_exclamation:Tankyou Deykar for giving me the idea for 100/200 HP, and 50% IC while transforming)

:blue_heart:Tankyou for those who lurked and read as many posts as you could since there are 5000 posts in the megathread alone.

:green_heart:Tankyou for those who have advocated for Bastion buffs and realized that he wasn’t actually fine, and have rallied your support for him.

:yellow_heart:Tankyou for those who have stalked each and every Bastion thread, given advice and opinions on Bastion, and have tried non-stop for getting Bastion noticed and into the limelight, so Blizzard can recognize him and make him better. A LOT OF YOU FALL INTO THIS CATEGORY, so I’m sorry if I can’t remember your name off the top of my head, but if you let Chibi know, you can get added here.

:orange_heart:Tankyou Chibi, for being the host of this thread for me, since I’m not Trust Level 3 and cannot post links. As well as lurking and sneaking into almost every thread to spread the word about our lord and savior, Bastion.

:purple_heart:Tankyou Terran for being an all-around good defender of Bastion, as I’ve seen you in countless thread talking about how Bastion is in a bad spot, as well as giving many ideas and dedicating many threads to Bastion.

:two_hearts:Shoutouts to JaredMnstr, GrantMan, DerGReif2, ZDanned, Dekunut, Astrobiology, SunderGold, ArcticGator, Proxillus, DrClan, for your dedication to Bastion and making him better.

:gift_heart: Bastion is not being forgotten, because of the amount of support and players willing to get him to a better spot, and become recognized. Everything afterwards is out of anyone’s control. Please don’t ignore Bastion any longer. :worried:

Hello, This is ChibiFox :fox_face: I’m Greatly Honored to be hosting this thread on Pharah’s behalf. Please, keep it civil.


THANK YOU

Aria Rose, For not only featuring this thread on your YT Series and reading through the main post, but for your support and genuine kindness towards us here in this thread and many others.

633 Likes
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❤️ 𝓑𝓪𝓼𝓽𝓲𝓸𝓷 𝓐𝓹𝓹𝓻𝓮𝓬𝓲𝓪𝓽𝓲𝓸𝓷 𝓣𝓱𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓭
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:wrench: ₮ⱧɆ ⱤɄ₴₮Ɏ ₮ØØⱠ ฿ØӾ ~ The place where Bastion mains and players come to talk about Bastion, and wait for him to have his problems get fixed
:wrench: ₮ⱧɆ ⱤɄ₴₮Ɏ ₮ØØⱠ ฿ØӾ ~ The place where Bastion mains and players come to talk about Bastion, and wait for him to have his problems get fixed
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So I’m the author (yay, trust level 2!) and I just want to add on that I get that bastion isn’t a strongly liked hero. I have heros I dislike too, but I dislike them because I want them balanced, not because I want them gutted, trashed, then thrown in a dark corner.

Bastion has been gutted, trashed, and thrown in a dark corner for over 16 months now. I think you’ve had your time of Bastion never seeing the light of day. It’s time this hero gets some much needed attention.


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150 Likes

Thank you Chibi and Pharah for the support as always. Bastion is a Hero that is in a critical state since over a year now. For months we tried to give feedback and suggestions. We gone from straight buffs over to complete reworks and explained every thought why we thought it would be a good idea. After months of support we reached the 5000-post limit so that we had to make a new thread and here we are: ready to continue our mission: to make Bastion viable!

Some of you might say that he is completely fine and we respect that opinion. Bastion was never a hero that had a great support from other people. He can be oppressive like he was in the past with 35% Ironclad. You need to understand that we don’t want this again. All we want is to have a playable or even just a “ok” Bastion that rewards us if we are good with him. In the moment Bastion can be picked up by anyone and be effective when the team uses healers and shields to support him. Does that make him viable? Not really. We know that it is a team game and that you need to work together to win matches… but you should not be just straight up garbage if you play him outside of that.

Look at what they have done with Symmetra. It was a pretty huge rework but, in my opinion, it was a good change. She is not a trollpick anymore and can do extremely cool things with her teleporter on E. Torb is also getting a rework but that could still take a while. There is nothing like a “niche” for Bastion. His “niche” is to shoot tanks and barriers but besides Winston all tanks counter him pretty hard and if you use shields against him it will take a lot of time to burn through that. That is not niche… that’s just sad.

All we want in the end is a comment from the devs. We know that Bastion is hated and we know that it is hard to change him without making him OP. Bastions main mission is to kill things. He doesn’t contribute anything else. Pls help him and support also this thread! Let’s go guys!

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That gif kills me XD

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It just remembers me of us… every day :smiley:

And its pretty accurate of Bastions main reason for existing.

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Well, it represents bastion mains back in the old days.

Current days would be a Bastion just repeating the dying animation over and over again.

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Thats the reason why we continue :stuck_out_tongue: The old thread should be full in tomorow I think.

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I’m SO Glad to be part of such an awesome and supportive group, No matter how small it may be.
(Here’s my first Real post in this thread… Lol)

Without the few of you, in this game i would have been lost on my worst of days, and without someone to share my best days with.

May the future shine upon us, friends.
And perhaps if we are lucky, deliver us an Official Reply to our new flagship.
:four_leaf_clover: :crossed_fingers:

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I’m pretty sure we’re on day 490 since the Ironclad nerf on PC. We’re pretty close to day 500 without any comment on Bastion’s state in the game…

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I’ll gonna give some feecback and math on the section 4a part… (the rework idea stuff)

Well, 75 extra health… 300 / (1 - 0.2) = 375. So he has an effective 375 health if you ignore armor. Factoring in armor is pretty hard though because it behaves differently to different damage values.

Technically, this puts him ever so slightly more accurate than his old MAXIMUM spread. 40% of 3° is 1.8°, whereas his old spread was 2°. However, I think this is fine because his old spread wasn’t a constant 2°, it had bloom. This one is slightly more accurate than his maximum before, but significantly less accurate overall than before.

35% Ironclad is roughly 160 (161.5 eHP) health, and 30% is roughly 130 (128.6 eHP) . Either of these values are fine, but if you want 150 health back, you’d want 33% (147.8 eHP). Technically ⅔%, but that’s not really possible on a computer…

Not really a huge fan of that one… It seems very strange that Bastion would be the only character in the game that can’t ride a payload. I don’t really like pirate ship too much, but I don’t think this is a good way to prevent it… I think buffing it’s counters is a better way of dealing with it, which they’ve already started doing pretty well…

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So here’s the new megathread, heh ?
Lemme grab my popcorn, read what i had to and get to work.

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Let me help you:

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Wait… Seagull is a Bastion player? :V

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I’m really glad that, of all of the possibilities on my list of potential nerfs, the only one that appears is the Quality of Life buff.

It’s the most inoffensive buff that Blizzard could possibly give to Bastion, which simply improves communication and coordination with his team. It’s something I would want for Bastion regardless of any other buffs.

Because I can tell my team all day long “Let them come around that corner, and I’ll shoot them” but they of little faith must SEE to believe.

A well detailed post, great job! I think we need to give Bastion the Mercy treatment. The overlock ultimate sounds really awesome and it would fit well into his character. I also have a visual suggestion, make Bastion’s eye/light turn red when he overclocks.

I’m happy that they did buff Bastion a little on the PTR but he is still very far from being viable on all tiers of ranks.

Also, I think It is a 80% they are ignoring Bastion, why? I have no idea… maybe they are too scared to help him because there will be mixed responses from the community that want Bastion to not be viable, which those kind of people are very selfish.

Or maybe they are talking about him, but very far away from being able to announce they are going to change him. Hopefully after Torb’s rework they will talk about Bastion

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Thank Pharah, i’m just the one who posted it! :smile_cat:
They did the actual compiling of the data involved.

I Also agree with this, to a degree.

Someone recently, (I Forget who, but credit where credit is due) Suggested giving bastion the same texture as Molten Core, as a “Skin” During the Overclocked Ultimate.

Overall, a visual indicator would be very nice.


Thank you everyone, for getting the ball rolling!

After all, we can’t make differences without coverage. :wink:
And no, i’m not talking about hammond this time… Surprisingly…

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Starting to think Doomfist is getting the same treatment.

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I’m kinda hoping this is the case, but also hoping that it isn’t because I would really rather them work with us instead of just trying a whole bunch of stuff to see what sticks.

That
Isn’t AT ALL what i remember.

And it’ll just feel clunky

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