Road to 0.0% Please just stop playing Bastion

Falloff change helped him a bit, more than most people probably have realized yet.

That said, he’s honestly way too squishy. Perhaps the answer is not to increase ironclad (although a minor buff to it could still work), but give him a higher percentage as armor and reduce self-repair’s regen speed so that he doesn’t have insurmountable self-sustain.

He can move while in sentry mode (like his ult) but with reduced movementspeed and some more drawback.

I’ve been saying for a while that allowing bastion to move slowly while turret is deployed and very slowly while firing in turret mode would be a game changer, since it would allow him to more effectively utilize corners and not be so reliant on shields. Even that change by itself would vastly increase his skill ceiling.

He’s still viable in pirate ship comp on the payload… that’s about it tho

I feel like it’s going to be a race between Bastion and Sombra at this point.

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Who would’ve thought that a stationary hero would be weak?

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Tbh hes cancer to this game in my eyes. He needs reworked harder than sym with no trace of what he is right now left. I wouldn’t play this game with bastion in meta.

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I will only say this once, so read it however many times you need to, to fully understand what i’m saying.

I will Never allow Bastion to be “Retired”

Even if i end up being the only Damn player stupid enough to play the hero, i Will Not Be told “We just give up”

If they want to fix their game, perhaps they should start by talking with the people who PLAY IT.

And YOU.

Oh… i know you well…

Either go try playing the hero yourself, Or concede that you don’t have the knowledge to be making such large sweeping statements.

Thank you for your In depth input into the conversation, If anyone wants to find me, I’ll be proposing the hundredth different change idea in our list, over in the Bastion Megathread.
[💔 Bastion ISN’T being forgotten, he’s being ignored (160+ Likes, 3600+ Responses)]
GOOD DAY.

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:wink:

He does insane damage that a buff to range or spread would just obliterate everything. He cant be viable without mobility and that would be a disaster and bane to anyone that doesnt main him. I wasnt saying I want him trash just not like he is right now you arnt happy with his current state as a bastion main and i dont want buffs to make him even more of a pain than he already is. It might of been condescending the way I put it but I really do think a rework is the best option

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The funniest part here?

We agree with you.
You are still rather uninformed, but… i’m not going to tell you how to play Tracer, now am i!!!

the thing is… Bastion doesn’t need straight “Buffs” Or “Nerfs”

Firstly, you need to get that “Binary” Out of your head.
(Jokes)

But i’m serious.
It’s not either or, and if you would allow, i’ll Try to explain it as calmly as i can, without my blood boiling off. (It’s not you… it’s the devs)

OK.
Here we go…

Bastion’s Spread holds him back from being an aim intensive hero, And… without the reward that most heroes get through headshots, Bastion mains and players alike are essentially LOCKED At a skill cap ceiling… Beyond which no skill matters when it involves his gameplay…

SO. Lets get to the meaty part…
Bastion’s MAXIMUM Damage, from a full clip, (Which takes time to fire the entire thing, i might add) Is 450, That is… Calculated with EVERY BULLET HITTING THE TARGET. As in… Only 450, if you Do. Not. Miss.

NOW. How often does Bastion miss, and at what ranges?
I now refer you to this:
[Bastion's real damage output (kinda)]

THAT^ Is a chart of sorts, showing the near exact (If not totally exact) Calculations of what misses where.


NOW.
Bastion does NOT Need mobility.
Why?

Bastion’s playstyle Mirrors Mobility heroes… As in, He’s the stationary target, that is easy to fight when moving, and hard to fight when standing still.

Aka, Bastion doesn’t need to be an unkillable MONSTER When in Sentry, but a Glass Cannon.

You Are A Tracer main… Yea?
Take a moment… And try to imagine being a Tracer, unable to move, And unable to land headshots. And now, you have roadhog’s hitbox.
Oh… and you have a head on your back.

Sound fun?

I DIDN’T THINK SO.

Bastion needs to lay down Suppressive fire.
Do NOT Get this confused with “Spray and Pray”

Here’s the descriptions of each:

  • Spray and pray: Spray and pray is a derisive term for firing an automatic firearm towards an enemy in long bursts, without making an effort to line up each shot or burst of shots. This is especially prevalent amongst those without benefit of proper training.

  • Suppressive Fire: Suppressive fire usually achieves its effect by threatening casualties to individuals who expose themselves to it.

And outside of suppressive fire, when actually hitting an exposed target, the damage needs to high. Why? With the ways to attack and punish a stationary target, Bastion is meant to Commit to being in sentry (I personally loved the old transformation times… the longer ones) And in that commitment, you are either punished… Killed or forced to move away, Or you are rewarded for Tactics, timing, and overall gamesense…

Not to mention… Bastion’s sentry mode is a PURE Aim, mode.
The aim should matter 100x more than it currently does (Reduced spread) And that aim should be rewarded more as well (A headshot modifier… maybe not full, But some)

Edit: allow me to add this in here…
Ironclad: And why i want it gone. At least… mostly.

Most Bastion mains don’t like it, and don’t see much of a need for it…
It reduces a Tiny Bit of Damage, but… Also promotes Pocketing.
And i would love to see it go. Mostly.

My preferred way of dealing with this?
Only have ironclad active, during healing.
(Like Roady!)
He’s not shooting while he’s healing, It has a resource limit that can be exhausted, and would only help to save him when he Needs it.


NOW… Uh… Let me catch my breath…

WAIT.
I’m typing this, why would i have to-

Bastion’s Sentry gun, does not at ALL Need to Support The spray and prey behavior… Before, it only had 200 rounds, and if you spent them hitting the wall, Now you had to reload, Putting yourself at greater risk…

I would LOVE To see 100 ammo removed from his Magazine.

Please… If you would be so kind… Read this post… And maybe we can discuss Bastion’s balance? :kissing_cat:
I’m truly sorry for my anger… and i wish to apologize for my aggressive nature, towards this subject… Please forgive? :blue_heart:

Pharah… i can only hope i’ve done you justice… I will NEVER Give up on Bastion, and i have you to Thank for that. :smirk_cat:

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Naw youd probably try to keep me from my easy PB picks from bastions :slight_smile:

It does but it also gives others a fair chance to find cover or even get in range to deal with him. Narrowing the spread would just make him shred shields and squishies even easier than he already does. Or am I missing something?

Isnt it really 525 for every bullet without a shot missed? That’s a crap load of damage. Enough to deal with tanks (mostly) and and every other hero. Now in reality we both know it’s nowhere near 525 or even 450 but its leaves plenty of room for mistakes and to still be able to reliable get a couple picks per clip in ideal situations

Not gonna lie I’m pretty sure I’m missing your point. Are you saying hes like a tracer/genji/sombra already just without the mobility or he is there designated target? I’d 100% disagree with the first point theres no situation I’d ever expect to see a bastion in my teams backline ( unless there doing that 200IQ lucio speedboat combo I literally cant deal with that strategy in any impactful way) and if your saying hes there target then yeah, your right hes a primary target even above supports usually because of the next point your going to make.

I get that and I’d even argue he does this fairly well already about as much as youd want a singular hero to be able to bring the bulk of the enemy team to near standstill. I main rein in comp and I dont think you realize just how impossible it is to get your team moving to side path literally right in front of you when theres a boosted bastion zero’d in on your shield.

Yeah but that’s just a straight nerf or is it supposed to be compensation for his reduced spread? If so that actually sounds very agreeable since a competent flanker (the person usually harassing a well guarded bastion) usually doesnt have a problem with ironclad and they will be so close that the spread reduction doesnt effect his counters in any meaningful way it would just make him better at his job while being slightly easier for flankers to counter him.

This just seems like a straight nerf to him too tho. Did you leave out buffs or am I missing something? I honestly think he could be reworked while keeping his identity. He has an awesome concept but too much damage and not enough escape options. Reminds me of a more extreme version of pre rework hanzo honestly. I’m not pretending to have answers but just consider the sheer number of changes you just went through that you want. At that point I would argue reworking him and keeping his ult and turret modes core to the rework would be just as simple and he could end up coming out with a more diverse and fun kit while also being less suppressing to the people fighting him. Just a thought tho chibi dont gut me if you choose to respond lol

He isn’t though, since Pirate Ship itself is so easily broken up now.

I’m not gunna gut ya bud… :smile_cat::blue_heart:

You did miss a few points tho…
(I am dyslexic, so… i probably screwed up somewhere in that mess)

I don’t know where the backline thing came from… but my original point was, Bastion is like a Tracer, that cannot move, headshot, Or escape.
(And the rest of the post explains why he doesn’t need an escape ability anyways)

No. It’s 450.
And once again, that’s if every pellet hits, You really should look over this chart, it’s Very Interesting at other ranges above point blank:

EXACTLY! Now you’re getting it!
I’m trying to balance everything at once.
The Bastion, The flankers, ALL Fair by that point.
And no one is angry after the fight is lost. :kissing_cat:

Edit: Didn’t mean to post this yet… OOPS.

THIS^ Is mostly what i was talking about originally…

It IS Possible, and what i suggested is possibly the most reasonable outcome for everyone involved.

This is part of the big picture that i failed to get across…
Bastion’s playstyle is SO Different than most heroes…

He just Doesn’t need Any form of mobility, or “Escape” To be viable again.

He just needs for his kit to favor it’s own pieces and parts.

I’m so glad to have at least opened your eyes to the possibilities…
(If i even have… i hope so.)

Bastion is just… A shell of what he once was…
It’s not about the raw damage, it’s about the balance between raw damage, and the situations it’s used in.

This… i’m glad you brought this up, because i don’t think i got something across very well…

This part^ Bastion required a lot of resource management, and in needing that, he couldn’t just “Spray and pray” If he targeted a shield, that usually spent his clip… forcing a reload, or forcing him to stand up and move.

He needs this resource management back, in Ammo and healing (Damage reduction on that healing too!)

The scenario i was suggesting wasn’t that he’s in the backline, it’s that he Feels like a Tracer, in the middle of Battle, that cannot move, headshot, Ect.

Ok. I want to address this in particular… as i count it as “Spray and pray” Behavior… The changes i listed above, would in all reality mean that if the shield he’s shooting goes down, the Bastion is instantly left Very Vulnerable, as he would have spent his clip, and been sent into either a reload, or sent running… So…

Bastion would actually be weaker in some regards towards Tanks from afar, and shields when stacked (with their tanks)

and yea… Like you stated here:

These “Nerfs” would balance his other areas of his kit, All at once.
(In theory) :smirk_cat:

while also making him more consistent to fight.

You might be missing the grand picture… The “Buffs” In question, would be fixing his Sentry gun (Lowered spread, headshots… Ect.) Then, while you have better damage, you have less room to make any mistakes.
(Requiring better overall aim, and positioning, Ect.)

That is the exact reason why i would call everything i suggested here a “Rework”
(Even though it would technically be reverting some data values)

I must admit playing vs Bastion on a payload behind 1-2 shields is the worst and most unfun thing I can imagine.

Playing against a Hanzo/Zarya combo is the worst and most unfun thing i can imagine.

Do it, can’t wait! Here’s a better idea: If people actually banned people for playing that hero in modes other than Competitive as well, you and the OP would definitely get your wish!

My back/hands hurt from Typing.

I’ll be checking back in the morning, and i would LOVE To discuss Bastion’s balance further.
Either here, or you could join our Megathread! :kissing_cat:

I have genuinely Zero clue why it says i replied to myself…

You have clearly never played in gold or below, people struggle to kill Bastion once he gets shielded, I’ll keep cursing the stupid level design in this game (f*****g chokepoints.)

crit is on the back of the sentry

but yea its a realy weak hero, even sombra has been incredibly buffed with infinite invisibility

The blue shining thing on the back of his turret form. Thats his head and can get crits.

With a ton of spread, so its more like a shotgun.

So slow its comparabile to moiras. And then wont get you out of a hot situation either.

Nope, the shield made him OP before it was removed. Just sitting in a corner so no enemy could sneak up behind him (thus no crits) and a lot of health. 600HP shield just for himself while being able to put out 450DPS is too much. Thats what an Orisa is for. Or rein.

Why did you say he has no crit box in turret form in the first place? Thats delusional mate.

Words to live by. Less falloff and maybe less spread so he is a little bit more viable in Sniperwatch.

Immediatly thought of them.
https://youtu.be/JAsp4rn9QnM