Revert hero balance back to where it was before Goats


#50

The goats nerfs need reverting, especially for the tanks. There’s literally no reason for the tanks to continue in this heavily nerfed state, goats is done for. C’mon, blizz.


#51

Except, besides D.Va who really needs buffs in the tank category? They are all still really strong. MAYBE Zarya needs a bit more HP on her bubble? idk.

The first yell will probably be “Reinhardt!” but he’s only fallen out of favor because Sigma is ridiculous as a shield tank right now, AND the Lucio speed nerf hurt him one of the worst. Not a problem really with his kit.


#52

The only thing I see causing this visual cluster problem are Symmetra’s ultimate walls. The rest of the time when they are not active, the game’s visual readability is perfectly fine.

If they want to make double shields not as prevalent, then they need to revert lucio’s speed boost and probably some of the dps powercreep changes that were made to specifically counter a now nonexistant goats meta, so that dive and ground pushes can reach the targets behind the shields more easily.


#53

Last night in OWL, Lucio was played a lot. I think reverting his speed boost would not have the desired effect. At the most it would make the double shield go from orisa/sigma to rein/sigma.

My dream patch would be snipers toned down, barriers toned down, doomfist shields toned down. Reaper’s lifesteal toned down.


#54

I just want the genji meta to come back to be completely honest, like everyone that says just focus doomfist when you see him it was the same for genji back then too.


#55

I agree its not but it isn’t an ignorant comment because physiologically people will always see the current meta as the worst unless they really think about it. I personally think this meta is better then goats if i really remember how goats was however people tend to look back on metas with nostalgia regardless of wether they enjoyed it or not.


(Josh Noh) #56

Hey there,

Balance changes take time and there will of course be more to come. We’ve just barely entered into 2-2-2 role queue and released a new hero at the same time. It’s important to collect statistics/data, as well as feedback to make informed decisions.

Reverting all balance changes over the last year is unlikely to happen. Any hero change could potentially affect a meta to some degree, but not all changes are directly targeted at the current meta, if that makes sense.

For some transparency, we’ve known for awhile that we would be moving to a 2-2-2 format (it required a long time to implement) and not all changes over the last year were directly targeted at affecting the 3-3 GOATS meta (eg. Soldier, McCree, Junkrat buffs).

The goal of the changes that actually were aimed at GOATS was not to kill it entirely but to weaken it enough, without destroying the individual heroes, that other new comps could arise to compete with it. Though it took a long time, with the results of stage 3 I consider that at least somewhat successful. Even if solutions are hypothetically available, any meta is ultimately dictated by the players.

Aside from meta considerations, it’s important to prioritize individual hero balance which is why we’re tuning Zarya and Symmetra damage output. The recent beam bug fix was much more potent than expected, with those heroes on average seeing a 20-40% increase in damage. Their original damage values were tuned without knowledge of this bug.

Thanks for your feedback!


GM - 15/31 heroes below 1% pick rate
Whats with the sym beam
The fact blizz didn't anticipate beam hero balance issues with the bug fix is concerning
Sym needs her nerf on life servers
What more do you want to take away?
Really?! Sym nerfs!? I'm done
Developer hypocrisy
This game feels like a forced esport
They're nerfing syms damage but not hanzos?
Meta looking pretty balanced right now
Symmetra: I Just Find It Funny How
Reverts and nerfs are needed
Big balance patch coming soon to PTR
When will we get v1.40?
Data on Role Queue?
This is meta is genuinely worse than goats
PTR Patch hit live?
This month in GM (Sym post.)
Symmetra needs a nerf
✅ [2-2-2] DPS streamers gonna quit
Stop complaining... Help identify new playstyles
They're nerfing syms damage but not hanzos?
The +20~40% Didn't Factor in Context
Beams Nerfed, D.Va Still Trash
Sym is op like hell
Sym is op like hell
Have a break guys!
Exciting OWL News
D.VA needs to be buffed
#57

So could you elaborate on the Sombra nerfs? Because they didnt look like they took the 2-2-2 changes into account but were exclusively looking at the goats meta in OWL at the time.

Jeff said on Seagulls stream that Sombra was one of the strongest dps in pro play and grandmasters, but she was that since she was the best option against goats, which of course cant be played anymore.


#58

Have you guys looked at doomfist… Please balance him. His 35 shields and one shot potential is too strong in 2-2-2. He gets away too much too


#59

You have an impossible job if you want to satisfy everyone, you probably already know this.


#60

How many times I’ve tried to get this point across on here…but it’s like talking to a brick wall


#61

Hey, two Dev replies in one day :eyes:

Thank you for shedding light on stuff like this. Any amount of communication is greatly appreciated!

Though, that being said, is it possible heroes like Lucio will potentially get a revert?


#62

Thanks for the response. It’s always great to see the devs thought processes on these matters.

Are there any plans for Brig then? She’s not doing very well at all, especially in 2-2-2. I know she’s a difficult hero to change due to the emotions surrounding her, but leaving her in her current state is not something I’m in favour of.


#63

I hope we will see a major overhaul.
The game is so overloaded right now.

Tanks, support, dps are all too strong, the moment someone f up someone blows up and you loose


#64

I truely hope so. For a melee based hero, she’s simply getting run over. At least test a shield buff to 300 hp.


#65

Josh I wonder if maybe you can shed some light on what the future of LFG is…and if any consideration was given to improvements of that system before going through with the 222 changes…lots of people on here take issue with the restrictiveness/inflexibility of the role queue system (a strength of LFG)


#66

So GOATS is not directly the reason why time-to-kill is currently at zero?


#67

Glad to see you’re all working so hard still on fixing Bastion…

wait.


#68

I’m waiting with pitchfork and torches.


#69

Why did you shrink their beam sizes. Symmetra finally not being totally helpless against mobile heroes was a major factor in her finally being good. On top of that she was one of the few heroes the disabled community could use well. On top of that, in most games I have played close range weapons have wider hitboxes because movement in CQC is more erratic and easier to evade LOS.

I understand the damage changes but not the beam size.