she wasnt trash then
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Pros and streamers complain about all of those heroes except for Soldier, Ashe, and Cree. During dive, pros complained about Tracer being a must pick. Rein’s initial steadfast buff had people complaining about him being too strong. The complaint about Genji is that he’s horrible 95% of the time and only useful as a nanoblade bot. With Ana, it’s her anti-nade. Widow has been complained about, specifically by pros and streamers, for longer than anyone else on this list.
What are you on about?
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Why? So was she meta or no. Stop changing the goalposts. Explain how she was both meta and underplayed at the same time.
So somehow Sym mirror match was the meta with her uhhhh 3% pickrate?
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It’s not being elitist.
Those heroes allow growth. Things that hit 100% of the time are just not fun for players at the top. These are people that want to improve at something, continuously. If there’s a low skill-cap, then they get bored and move on to something with a high skill-cap.
Anything you can get near 100% value out of by holding down buttons lowers a games skill-cap. The Omnic Crisis (Bastion with like 45% armor) is a great example. Just put Bastion in a choke behind shields. No one is getting pass that. In fact most bunker comps are a great example.
Want to see the difference these players are talking about in skill vs no skill? Watch a Moira vs Moira. Then watch an Ana vs Ana.
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Risk vs Reward.
Every one of those heroes can be punished incredibly hard if they’re not played optimally.
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Are we really pretending the “bugfix” didn’t make both Sym and Zarya wildly consistent and high damage?
I forget the dev quote but the fix increased her and Zarya’s damage by something like 30% when that’s not what they intended. Don’t try to pass that off as player bias.
Edit: This was the quote
Players generally don’t complain about the skill of Reinhardt/Winston/etc? Could it be that the problem is not mechanical skill but actually ease of use compared to reward?
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Coming from gold I have an easier time picking off enemies without dying as tracer than playing mind games against enemies to bait them into turret traps or engaging them with sym
She is now.
20 chars
Genji and Tracer cause degerative damage to decision taking by having free get out jail skills and all the tools on demand to fullfill their roles. To the point that any counterpick to them becomes the target of, indicentally, ‘‘no brain’’ screaming.
Meanwhile ‘‘Sym was/is brainless’’ is purely a low rank opinion that contradicts what is the general opinion of pro players, who many have called Sym complex and teamwork intensive.
Thats a pretty bad example considering that its 1 instance of a hero going out of PTR poorly balanced.
Yeah and in exchange Moira’s only use aside healing is to kill bad Genjis, while Ana has plethora of tools at her disposal. Their roles and match-ups within healers are completly different and cant really be compared.
It did that for Zarya, but Sym didnt benefit much from it, because her glaring flaws that made her be a bad dps have never been potential damage, but the fact that she has no tools to stay for the time requires to apply that damage.
Even with the 25% or so buff to damage, she was still being exploded when she got to her needed close range.
That doesnt make sense because people have complained about Sym for years despite being made of glass with almost no real cannon to back it up, where you explode into shiny confetti when you take a bad decision or have a (very common) bad match-up.
Are you kidding me? I was playing Sym during that time period and she was absolutely melting people and barriers so fast it was comical.
It was up to 40% on average which means some people were even outputting higher than that.
People complained that she was a throw pick for years. That was her chief complaint for the lifetime before her rework. At that point it was more about the perception of her bringing down the team than ease of use.
Because we’ve had plenty of characters who were easy to use (Moth Mercy, Release Brig, Moira) but have so much impact that players were mad for people not picking them. During that double barrier period people were mad if you didn’t pick Sym as well.
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Normally I don’t get involved in things like this, but imma say it. Y’all want the truth, the cold painful truth? People bch just to bch. Anyone who is meta they will find ANYTHING in their kit to call them low skill no IQ. It’s a constant annoying back and forth between the people on here who believe they’re some high IQ pro.
Tracer isn’t meta “She takes skill and is being outshined by EZ high value low effort heroes.”
Tracer is meta “No skill easy one clip cheese hero with the best sustain and too much mobility!”
Moira comes out. “Worse healer only good if there’s 4 tanks. She’s not worth it.”
Double shield. “TOO OP LOW EFFORT HUGH VALUE BRAIN DEAD CHEESE!”
Ana isnt meta. “We need more supports like this she requires skills and aiming, she has glaring weaknesses and her sleep dart skill shot is fair and hard to hit.”
Ana is meta. “LOW EFFORT TRASH TOO MUCH HEALING THAT SLEEP DART IS OP SHE HAS NO WEAKNESSES AND THAT NADE IS TOO STRONG!”
Widow isnt meta. “The most mechanical skill hero. Actually hard to play but everyone just wants to play braindead heroes.”
Widow is meta. “ITS TOO EASY TO GET HEAD SHOTS WITH HER! NERF!”
McCree isn’t meta. “He actually takes aim and is hard to flank with as he has not a reliable escape.”
McCree is meta “Too easy no skill just walk up and flash bang!”
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Please learn to read, because I never said she didnt have the damage, said that her damage was still massively unreliable because she was (and is) still the glassiest hero in the whole game.
Irrelevant to the discussion, it could have been 50% and if she instantly pops when getting to close range unlike every other CQC, it didnt mean her damage went up.
Uhhhh no. People ALSO complained that she was an ‘‘izi brainless pubstomper’’ for years despite never being true, at any point with any of her versions. In fact people still do, and say that her full of counterplay nerfed turrets are somehow the second coming of satan.
Except that Sym never went above 3-4% pickrate. She got hardcountered by the most popular dps of that time, Mei. She couldnt safely farm charge off the range barrier shields either.
‘‘Sym was meta during double shields’’ is not really factual at all, its mostly perception from her not being as terrible as she normally was.
Not saying you can just walk into masters with her. I said that the ammount of input required to get huge value with her isnt on pae with other heroes so her changes need to reflect that. If we sre to allow her to ger so much value she needs to earn it. If not, the we gotta decrease her overall potential to keep her reasonable. Currently she isnt reasonable.
Mercy and Zen both have very clear ex0loitable weaknesses. Zen has no mobility or self sustain plus low healing output outside of ult while being the easiest squishy to hit due to his hitbox being giant and Mercy only heals or boosts. She cant burst you and coordinated dives and proficient hitscan play can make quick work of her.
Brig on the other hand I could see needing changes like Moira. While I dont percieve her to be as problematic since she doesnt have range and her shield is pretty exploitable. I wouldnt oppose to Brig changes as long as those dont get us closer to release Brig than we are now.
Also no, Moira’s fade is way better than wraith since she doesnt move slowly and doesnt telegraph her movement, meanwhile you cal follor Reaper in wraith.
Fade is also on a significantly lower cooldown than recall while being attached to a hero that has a skinny hitbox, self sustain, lifesteal and unmissible reliable consistent damage. Its way better than both of those abilities.
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You said Sym didn’t benefit that much, which was a baldfaced lie. Everyone was picking Sym because she benefitted so much. It’s revisionist history to act like her pickrate and impact didn’t explode.
It’s only irrelevant to someone who wants to lie about facts. Sym was one of the meta picks during that time period.
Show me the facts of her pickrate during the time of the “bugfix” not the entirety of double barrier.
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Because dive was so rampant for 2 years that only these hero mains remained. Look at OWL. Half of dps are know for tracer while most of off tanks were basically dva otps.
Remember back then Brigitte mains claimed OG Brigitte was balanced because she’s just like a weaker Rein with weaker attack and weaker shield.
They love to claim that aim isn’t the only skill, that game sense and positioning are also important, that we are all aim elitist who don’t see other skills as skills…YET, they don’t really understand anything about game sense and positioning either, or they would have never compared difficulty of Rein to Brigitte in a million years.
And it’s that lack of understanding of game sense/positioning that have so many of them crying that Brigitte’s shield is too weak after her rework, while she’s getting played more and more in OWL.
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Not true, Symm’s beam is kinda hard to track on squishy heroes.
Bad synergy. Zarya only has good synergy with Rein and average with Sigma or Winston.
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its a newer thing being used, orisa zarya doom. pull punch bubble, guaranteed 1 kill every fight
Couldn’t have said it better. I had same thoughts for a long time but couldn’t make it into right words.
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Which is funny, because Rein gets the same value for the same input as Brig, yet she was marked as “no skill” and Rein - “the most skillful tank in the game”. Logic, I guess.
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