Yes, because double shield meta is thriving currently, why would dive come back all of the sudden? I don’t understand what you mean?
and what makes double shield the meta?
what defined dive?
if you dont look at things beyond a “meta” and ignore context, then you just are crying about nothing.
Brig didn’t do anything to dive. It was mercy prior. Which meant widow and doomfist.
Ignoring the history, the current dynamics of ladder and owl only makes appeals to devs to address a meta. and THAT’S how we have dive dead now. not brig
They released her to end dive, again, you think its a coincidence that when dive was the meta and she came out and countered dive… dive ended? This is one of the FIRST times I’ve seen someone say otherwise, I thought it was common knowledge and frankly common sense.
Use 2-2-2 quick play to practice new “team” playstyles. Your not risking SR. Your not throwing the game.
Dive wasn’t the meta when brig hit.
Mercy was.
the devs should not be balancing their game with the assumption that every team every player gets would be like OWL pro team level of coordination and cooperation. it simply doesn’t happen esp when most solo queue (and high up ranks can’t even group stack). unless you’re playing a full stack, you have strangers who you’re likely meeting for the 1st time on your team. high coordination can’t be expected in ladder.
Heroes should be balanced to be able to do their job/role individually (or well have reasonable chance to do so from looking at their kits and comparing with others), and teamplay or synergy is rewarded on top of that. Even the devs have this view
Balancing heroes to require team coordination to function is an easy recipe for poor gameplay. trolls exist, bias against things exist (e.g. people hating certain heroes to throw on sight), not everyone has the same skills to pull off everything possible in the game, etc. these are all random variables that appear with random matchmaking. You can’t just assume a high standard and just balance around that standard without worsening the expected experience since most games have a lower expected standard.
And this is why sombra’s struggling in balance esp in 2-2-2, and why new sym tp downtime is actually really terrible.
5 Likes
Your right. There are a lot of kids,young adults,adults,and senior adults playing this game. The game gives the freedom to play anywhere you want with in the bounds of the game. If you had the chance to balance the game what “baseline” would you use to follow the team player theme of Overwatch?
I think a base line would be heroes having the independence to fulfill their intended role/job without needing to to be highly or totally dependent on the specifics of how the team plays. that way, random factors like leavers trollers, people not having compatible hero pools, hero hate, etc. aren’t as an important factor which would consequently make games feel less rng. Obviously still reward teamplay.
an example of a hero that is a bit too independent is tracer: it’s clear how blinks and recall work for tracer to get in and out for her to do her job.
a more balanced example is ashe, she doesn’t require particularly another hero to be able to snipe or kill, sure mercy damage boost lets her one shot, but she still kills and do plenty of damage without teammates needing to cater to her needs. another more balanced example is lucio. yes he works better with teammates grouped up, but lucio himself can move around with his speed and wall ride speed boosts to “catch” people in his aura. these conditions are good synergy, but not required to get value out of the heroes.
a hero that was a bit too dependent would be sym right before her tp rework in the sigma patch. with tp being on demand to cast, sym’s issue of having low mobility to engage or disengage in fights whiles having low range, low sustain and high delays was alleviated a lot and did in fact make her plenty flexible compared to before her 3.0 rework. but what old sym3.0 lacked was something to make her able more reasonably duel or justify long delays because old tp more or less put the range and mobility issue to an acceptable part, but the sustain vs delays balance was underpowered.
extreme examples of being too dependent would be sombra, bastion and current sym where they need specific comps and/or teammates to go out of their way to play in a specific way (like team pocket, actively use tp, etc.) in order to get value out of them otherwise they’re not worth the pick nor time.
long story short: hero kit balance should be around being independent to be able to fulfil their job/role, reward team play when it exists rather than hard require it then punish the individual for the lack of it.
4 Likes
The independent ones have high solo kill stats like Snipers and Doomfist. Might need to fix that too
I never said that all independent heroes are balanced. not to mention I was saying heroes like ashe and lucio are more on the mark. like most of the cast is at least fairly independent. e g junkrat doesn’t impose as many requirements as sombra, current sym and bastion, likewise same for genji, mccree, baptiste, dva, winston, torb, etc.
not to mention there are heroes that are really independent but don’t have high stats too e.g. tracer and soldier.
yes, there are some heroes being too independent and need some tweaks as you say. But it doesn’t mean the baseline for independence of heroes’ kits should be “must work together like they’ve known each other for like 5yrs” or something. like that’s just unrealistic.
2 Likes
Mercy, Widow, Genji/Tracer, Winston, D.va, Zen/Lucio, was the most common place characters at Brigs introduction. It was indeed dive that was present, only d.va and winston could make a dive comp at the time.
That is a lot of words to show that you don’t like “team” play. 
It’s like you didn’t read it at all… 
2 Likes
The fact that i criticize the devs’ game design and balance doesn’t mean i’m waiting for buffs to play Pharah or nerfs to try out how to best deal with the Orisa/Sigma combo.
Plus the hero kits in Overwatch are the playstyles; there is very little wiggle room here to be creative or innovative. That is supposed to be the domain of hero switching and team compositions. A hero is like a rifle in Battlefield, very specific strengths and weaknesses that you have to pkay around, while the loadout (=team comp, switching) is where you adapt and adjust.
2 Likes
I think you are fairly off about what moth meta allowed to work.
Ohh am i, i think i am fairly on point with what was played slowly as Mercy got introduced into Dive, seeing as i was playing it heavily in scrims.
sauce
overbuff (dot) com/blog/2017-10-24-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-lord-have-mercy
Mercy
Slowly
Meta
Okay
Lol and I like how your own link defines dive as a meta without Lucio.
If McCree and soldier are used more than Lucio, that ain’t dive
I remember you posting this BS in a “buff Tracer” thread and I remember proving how wrong you are.
“Whaa i am wrong and i cannot handle it wahhhh, mommy”
i proved you wrong so move on.
Dive is a tactic used, not based on heroes at all and the most essential part of dive, is the “Dive” tanks, d.va and winston, who still dominated the meta.
Even your logic is completely bogus, so deathball and GOATS are dive comps because of having lucio 
Your playstyle is probably “lone ranger”. It just doesn’t fit in 2-2-2.