Bro stop, just stop. People will always be frustrated, any little thing that kills them is going to frustrate them. Reducing or removing frustration is not real. You need to face reality my guy, thats like growing up and expecting adults to all be mature and disciplined. I was naive when I was young too, I used to think everyone was gonna be on their right mind and treat me with respect. I learned real fast thats not how the world works, there are adults that will act worse than children. The very same thing can be said about a video game, people will always be mad about anything that kills them.
There is no such thing as a perfect level of frustration, everyone is different and everyone handles frustration differently. There is no way you are this naive. Humans are competitive in nature, people will turn the most casual game into a freaking tournament. Just look at smash bros as a perfect example of that. A game literally designed for fun and it didn’t take long for people to turn it into a freaking esports. The world is not perfect so there is no point in trying to “boost player count”. This game is thriving. If you hate dying to snipers so much then go play another pvp game, go ahead, see how “balanced” snipers are on other games. I promise overwatch is probably the most balanced when it gets to snipers just because we have legit heroes designed to counter them.
Says who? If I flick a headshot onto a tank a couple times, that’s an out play, get over it.
Barrier, meat shielding, name it, they can do it. Even Queen’s shout saves people, quite often too.
So Rein just charges at me and I’m supposed to stand there and eat it and not fight back? You make no real sense.
They do, yes.
He thinks snipers shouldn’t be able to fight back, but does he know a lot of snipers irl are deployed with either a high capacity handgun, or an SMG for close engagements? Kinda like Widow, but not one gun.
So can’t kill far away, can’t kill up close… How about leave the guy alone and stop crying for nerfs to his kit, because you have awareness that can only be measured in nanoseconds.
I read your solutions, reducing headshot damage at long range for hanzo is not gonna fix the problem. Getting one tapped across the map is no different than dying to a widow across the map. The one shot is still there, the storm arrow nerf you mentioned is so bad hanzo may as well get a new ability. Do you realize hanzo has a slow fire rate? And shoots projectiles? The widow nerfs are just nerfing her more on top of how hard she is to play now with sombra existing. It just doesn’t make sense. Your goal is to nerf the heroes so much that no one plays them but allowing them to keep their raw power. Your solution is gonna definitely stop a lot of people from playing them but whats gonna happen when they face a top player like me? Players like me are still gonna go around getting those one shots. Considering more top players are in qp. casuals are still gonna get wrecked. In the end it wont fix the problem casuals have with snipers.
Why do you even bother talking to Grey about balance in this game? He’s known to not even play Overwatch, and thinks applying RTS logic to an FPS works.
Just let him think what he thinks sadly.
His ideas would work if the game was say… A tower defense, or a battle sim like Stellaris/Total War/etc
Im just having fun with it, I want to see how casuals think about balance. At the end of the day, these discussions are pointless. The devs are gonna do whatever they want with their game, they aren’t gonna nerf snipers unless they become a huge problem. Considering how meh snipers are in their current state and how strong sombra has become, snipers are gonna be left alone for a while.
If the problem is the “feels bad” aspect of how the gameplay mechanic feels. Then that is rather fixable if you remove a lot of the “Where the heck did that kill come from” attacks.
And if anything, saying how Widow is a problem, doesn’t mean Hanzo isn’t a problem.
They are both poorly designed if you don’t have the opportunity to react to the attack, and the counterplay is really boring for most heroes. Heck, direct counterplay of “kill the Widow” isn’t really even possible for the vast majority of the heroes.
It’s a “numbers game” at that point. Reducing the frequency that frustrating gameplay mechanics exist, absolutely does lower how overall frustrating they are perceived to be.
And while a handful of people will “unintentionally smurf”, it’s no big deal, since players with a big MMR gap would probably stomp regardless of what hero they picked.
And heck, if it’s egregious enough, you’re just gonna wrack up a ton of cheater reports.
I don’t particularly care about their tierlist positioning, unless it’s being used as a “Don’t fix them, just nerf them” approach. But removing the frustrating parts is preferable.
But beyond that, if GM is going to be using roughly 5x DPS heroes for +90% of their pickrate. Then by definition 13x DPS other heroes aren’t going to be in that list. So there’s a lot of room to pick who those 5x DPS heroes are, based on how enjoyable/unenjoyable they are.
Bro every hero has something frustrating about them. The only way to ever make anyone shut up is to only allow everyone to use the same exact hero. Heck even then people will be frustrated because other players will be better than them. It’s impossible to fix player frustration just as it’s impossible to truly reduce it. You might be smart with numbers but you heavily lack common sense. Blizzard is not looking to boost their numbers, people that leave Ow are not leaving because of snipers, they are leaving because they either suck, or they are playing other games or there is just no content to play overwatch.
This is probably the “silliest”, to put it lightly, thing in your entire reply, which is really saying something. This is a game, if you want realism, this isn’t the game for you. In a competitive game, you will have archetypes, and those archetypes will have both strengths and weaknesses. Often, the bigger the strengths, the bigger the weaknesses. The 2 snipers in this game do not have weaknesses that even remotely approach the level of their strengths.
The close range specialist (melee) hero, who is also a tank, is supposed to lose to the squishy long range specialist (sniper), at close range, in any situation ever? You really think so, and want to tell anyone else they don’t make sense? Ok.
Oh wait, you still aren’t done?
You saying that to literally anyone else too?
I think that’s enough forums for you today. Continue being wrong to anyone who will listen, if you want, I don’t have the patience to read anything else you post unless it says “View 1 hidden reply”.
Lol, that’s another fun euphemism for “Whatever my opinion is, is correct.”. An “a priori” logical fallacy.
It’s also pretty similar to a “No true Scotsman” fallacy.
But for real, your “common sense” is to entirely ignore game design professionals.
And instead you focus on hearsay echochamber stuff from people who have never studied gameplay design in their entire lives.
How “Common” an opinion is, doesn’t make it more correct. Especially if it’s not backed up by any measurable evidence.
That’s like saying conspiracy theorists or flat earthers are more correct based on how popular they get.
No. That’s not how reality works.
Lol. So I’m supposed to believe a publicly traded company on the stock market isn’t looking for “more money”? They’re not running a charity dude, it’s a business.
That’s literally the whole point of Balance.
Increasing the worthwhile and interesting choices. Which includes toning down choices that restrict a larger amount of choices.
And while perfection isn’t possible, I 100% reject the idea that “making it a large fraction better” isn’t possible.
I also think it’s pretty weird how you’re arguing that changing gameplay can’t affect anything, but also that nerfing Widow and Hanzo would do irreparable harm.
Either gameplay design matters, or it doesn’t. You can’t have that both ways.
Whoa there slow down, I never said nerfing them would cause irreparable harm. I said it’s pointless to nerf them just because of casuals, the effect of that would be another hero taking the nerf spot. I clearly said it’s a never ending cycle. Also bro idk why you keep mentioning wanting to boost player numbers. If you are so obsessed with that then go work at blizzard. If blizzard cared about boosting their numbers then they would have listened to casuals years ago.
Widow kinda already has that but hanzo gets waaay too much freebies, i think thats also why he’s labeled as a mostly “pure luck” hero, his shots are waay too stealthy
Someone’s already upset, I can see where this is going. Just a nonstop fest of wanna be trolling and insults.
And?
Should pick your fights better, all I can tell you. If you charge a sniper and get rekt, that’s on you.
Ooooh someone’s actually really upset, your gas lights don’t work here.
Run away when someone absolutely dismantles your argument and put them on mute because you can’t handle you said some absolutely out there stuff, and got told other wise.
Maybe quit OW if you’re this soft, this is not the game for you.
If the tank can’t kill them before they kill them, that’s a personal issue and over all team issue. Stop trying to push for further nerfs to a hero that does not need any more.
And yeah, I would work at Blizzard. But I fear I’d basically have to take a paycut, and sell my condo, and work a junior position.
But back in highschool I wanted to get into game design, but figured the industry doesn’t have much job security. Which is really the case now.
But for the heck of it I wrote a resume, looking to take Geoff Goodman’s old job. And had somebody at Blizzard review the resume. But they politely pointed out how I don’t really have any professional experience. And I don’t know if I wanna go through all the hassle to learn those skills, even if the financial stuff made sense.
As for the boost player numbers, that’s because Overwatch has basically been my hobby project. Kinda Fantasy Football Game Dev simulator on tryhard mode.
Like here’s a sloppy list of some of the “Isn’t that a coincidence” stuff.
Posted a guideline for an OWL OW2 earlier PVP edition During the 2 weeks between the Metro Leak, and when the OWL OW2 earlier PVP edition was announced. Notabely, I skipped pretty much all the Support reworks, except for Brig, down in the comments. Because it would cut the workload down by a lot.
That explains why you are so passionate about it, I respect that. Im glad you got this hist of it and didn’t take offense in anything I said lol. Im just poking fun at every solution people come up with when it gets to balance because I enjoy seeing what ideas people come up with. Some people have great ideas and others have ideas that make me question humanity. Your ideas in particular aren’t bad but a few are flawed. It’s also just my opinion so it doesn’t really matter how I feel about it.
Well, yeah. But the way I see it. The best way to have more good ideas, is to have a larger quantity of ideas.
Inevitably you’ll get a sizable amount of bad ideas. But often those can inform an even better idea, or point you to an extra design restriction you need to account for.
