Yet Another Mercy Thread

Mercy, in her current state is very balanced, having a healthy pickrate and winrate across all ranks.

However, as we all know or should know, statistical balance is not the only reason to make changes as many QoL changes can be made that do not disrupt balance.

I’m going to preface this post by saying that these are my opinions and that this is a discussion forum, just because the developers state they do not want to do more reworks in the future does not mean it cannot be discussed, as other movements such as #deletebrig were successful in bringing change even if their argument to delete a hero entirely was something the developers said they would not do.

I believe that while Mercy is balanced, the way I see her she has some severe design flaws and aspects to her kit that are contradictory to her intended design, based on what the developers have said in the past.

A major point is that of Resurrect as her basic ability, one on the longest cooldown in the game and one that often takes longer to get off cooldown and be able to use than Mercy’s ultimate

As it is now, Resurrect requires a hero who is otherwise always on the move to stop movement entirely for longer than the cooldown of her said movement ability while also being forced into essentially a standstill for the duration of the cast

A lot of the time it forces you to hide in order to actually get off. Yes of course you could get it off in the middle of combat but you still stopped healing entirely in order to do so, which the developers found “wrong to tell a main healing character [to stop healing]”.

Every other ability that removes your capability to take another actionis either an ultimate ability or can be cancelled. Resurrect has no way to cancel it, unlike every other ability that impairs you in some way (either by preventing you from shooting or using another ability, moving, etc.) while also being self-inflicted, such as Wraith Form, Cryo-Freeze, Roll Mode, Scoping in etc. Deadeye is as close to Resurrect in terms of its cast, and reduced movement, but it can also be cancelled.

Resurrect in its nature is an out-of-combat tool.

If you are healing someone and another person dies, if you leave the first person to go rez the other, you’ve abandoned a teammate.

Resurrect has a longer downtime than Mercy’s ultimate ability (which is another flaw I will get to), in that Mercy can get Valkyrie more often than the ability.

No other basic ability is balanced in this way beyond Deadeye, where its huge potential impact necessitates the heavy drawbacks to using it, however not only can it be cancelled, it is also on a hero who is otherwise not very mobile at all. Having this on a hero is probably the most mobile in the game is a huge flaw in design as I see it.

However, I honestly do not see a way to balance resurrect as a basic ability because it is too strong still, despite its drawbacks.

A lot of the time, Resurrect is used in Valkyrie to mitigate this (which also happened during her rework phase when the cast time was introduced because you could ignore that by using resurrect in valkyrie). Which is also something the developers did not like and changed.

In essence, it is an ultimate on a cooldown which forces the rest of her kit to be nerfed to compensate. Even so, it is a fact that it is better to keep someone alive than to resurrect them. You could use it to counter an ultimate or as a burst heal in that you tell a main tank to just die do you can resurrect them since that could be faster than trying to heal them to full, but its not practical and even when done that way, you’ve given the enemy team a lot of ult charge.

I think it should be removed. If it cannot be removed, make it her ultimate exactly the way it is now, just it being her ultimate.

Now on to her current ultimate; huge design flaw in my eyes.

Originally scrapped due to it being unintuitive and quite dull, it was resurrected (pun intended) to give her an ultimate, paired with free flight, increased speed, unlimited ammunition and uninterrupted regeneration.

It is versatile and can be used for a lot of things, but it is contradictory to her design as a STRONG single target healer.

Free flight is nice, but entirely unneeded for a character who is so mobile anyway, a lot of times it used to escape.

Due to its versatility, this also makes it useable at any time. You could use it as soon as you get it and would be having an impact.

Not to mention its probably one of the few ultimates besides Rally, that I dont have to adjust or change my gameplay for.

With all other ultimates I either have to do something about and hide or take out the user or if its a defensive ult have to look out for to make sure I dont waste my own ultimate. When you hear mercy using Valkyrie, you dont have a feeling of “something is going to happen, watch out” or a feeling of “we need to kill that Mercy or something huge is going to happen”. A lot of the time it can just be ignored.

Ironically enough, its one of the few ultimates you dont ask about whether its ready or not. You dont ult track to see “oh Mercy might have ult” or your own team ask “do we have valk?, how much until valk?”. People ask for Resurrect being up, they track whether Resurrect is up.

When Mercy ults, everything she has is automated and made easier and actually enhances her healing which can only be said because they lowered her base healing. This alone makes it almost worth being used on cooldown if there is a lot of damage coming in, but nothing too insane.

It doesnt have as much of an impact as Resurrect either. If someone dies and there is a Mercy on the enemy team I have to look out in case she rezzes and if I kill someone and she brings them back it can swing the game much more than her ultimate.

At best, her chain damage boost can be very useful, but its also a lesser version of another ultimate and the fact that it chains is counter to her identity as a single target healer.

The way I see it, Resurrect should be scrapped, because it is so difficult to balance that it is an ability seldom seen in any other game. In other games it is either useable by everyone or doesnt exist, but having a Resurrect ability limited to one character is something that you will have a hard time finding, and in the only other game I can think of which is Heroes of the Storm with a character that does have a rez as an option for her ultimate, its the weaker choice versus another that basically cryo-freezes a friendly target (without the heal) and then explodes a short time after. This is also in a game where respawn timers can go up to 60 seconds and while it is a very different game, its just an example from what I could find.

As an ability Resurrect is too strong alone and as an ultimate it is too weak with its drawbacks but removing them leads to other problems emerging as we have seen in the past.

Moreover, at the time of her rework, the post detailing it said that resurrecting downed heroes is a core part of Mercy’s gameplay. At the present time, it is far from a core part of her gameplay. Anytime it is, makes it too difficult to balance her. Making it a core ability would require they nerf Mercy’s healing even more and have Resurrect be her clutch, as her heals are low but she can resurrect often and successfully. It would be infuriating to play against, but it would also be inferior and a detriment the allied team to having a support that keeps the team alive in the first place.

So she may be balanced but at the end of the day there is a large portion of people who would like to see her have a bit more to her kit and agency without having the aforementioned contradiction of being possibly the most mobile her in the game that must remain stationary for nearly 2 seconds, often requiring her to hide away from a fight which was the purpose of the rework and a behaviour they did not like to see.

Having an ability with a cast is fine on a hero that is not very mobile to begin with but on a hero like Mercy it is a huge detriment. Using Valkyrie to somewhat alleviate this is also counterintuitive as the developers did not want rez tied to her ultimate as before the change to it in valkyrie, valk was used almost exclusively to rez.

To me, the design of Mercy and the philosophy behind that design is that of a strong, single target healer, with unrivaled mobility with a weakness in a dependence on her teammates as well as near lack of self-defense beyond her pistol as well as having a drastically lower damage output than other supports (even when her own damage plus her damage amplified are taken into account).

In essence, I see her as an opposite to Zenyatta in some aspects, Zenyatta is a weak healer but has very strong damage capabilities, coupled with no mobility or disengage tools to speak of.

While I would like for Resurrect to be removed entirely, I’m pretty sure the developers have no intention to so, even if it would make Mercy not only better to play, but also make her gameplay more fluid without having the same strange behaviour of stopping to heal as was present with her first iteration.

Nonetheless, while Mercy may be balanced, her current design is contradictory in many ways.

Therefore, I suggest changes that draw inspiration from Auriel, a healer in Heroes of the Storm

Mercy

Resurrect

  • Cast time reduced from 1.75 seconds to 0.5 seconds
  • Movement speed penalty remains to 75% for the 0.5 second cast
  • Targeted heroes will now return after 3.5 seconds rather than 2.25 seconds
  • Mercy is free to move up to an additional 15 meter radius during the 3.5 seconds before the targeted hero can act, giving a total radius of 20 meters to move from the targeted hero. If Mercy moves out of this radius before the 3.5 seconds are over, the Resurrect will be cancelled. Opponents can see a visual indicator for the soul of the hero being resurrected.
  • The visible indicator for the soul has 100 health regardless of hero and if lowered to 0, Resurrect is cancelled. It cannot be healed or targeted by friendly abilities. It can also be knocked back or stunned, which will cancel the Resurrect.
  • Cooldown will begin to count down once the targeted hero has been resurrected rather than upon activating Resurrect, making sure there is a full 30 second gap between uses of Resurrect. Cooldown will still start if Mercy is killed or interrupted in the 0.5 second cast.
  • Targeted heroes can choose to decline being resurrected by pressing the interact key in the 3.5 second window and Resurrect will be put on a 20 second cooldown.
    *Resurrect will fail and go on the full 30 second cooldown if Mercy is killed between the cast and the 3.5 seconds before a hero returns.

Valkyrie

  • Resurrect
    • Heroes targeted will now resurrect at the nearest walkable location relative to Mercy regardless of where their soul was, but the Mercy has an increased cast time of 1 second her movement speed is reduced by 75% (like before the latest change to its speed)

Comments: These changes are designed to make Mercy’s gameplay more fluid, without awkward interruptions or moments where she cannot act, while still allowing plenty, if not even more counterplay. Resurrect still has 4 seconds before the target hero can return (before it was 1.75 second cast and 2.25 seconds before they can act, now it is a 0.5 second cast and a 3.5 second pause before the targeted hero can act). This change gives the enemy team arguably more counterplay as a result, but makes Mercy’s gameplay much more intuitive than current Resurrect allows. In addition, it adds the ability to reposition teammates that are Resurrected while using Valkyrie but also making it similar to how it is currently. This is to discourage using Resurrect in Valkyrie, in keeping with the developers not liking Resurrect tied to her Ultimate.

While again, I would prefer Resurrect be moved entirely, this is a reasonable way to put her more in line with what I believe her identity as a hero is.

This iteration of Resurrect has much more counterplay than the current one, but not at risk to Mercy but rather to the cancellation of the ability, as well as giving targeted heroes more agency in whether they want to be resurrected. EVen though the developers have stated that resurrecting fallen teammates is a core part of Mercy’s gameplay, I don’t really see that as being the case currently other than it eating up her entire power budget.

Please feel free to discuss any ideas you may have and make sure to read the entire post before writing a response. If you do not wish to do so, then do not respond, since many questions you may have may have already been addressed, as well as a response to comments regarding Mercy’s balance, as this is not a post about her state, as she is balanced currently, this post is about providing Mercy with a QoL change that appears as a buff, but I believe its compensation makes it an overrall nerf to the ability, but a buff to Mercy as a whole.

EDIT: Soul health decreased to 100.
EDIT 2: Clarified the change regarding the start of the Resurrect cooldown. Also added functionality where if Mercy is killed before the hero returns, Resurrect is also cancelled.

7 Likes

don’t be mad

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Major props for paragraphs though. :grin:

Whoops. I’m working on it I’m working on it. :grimacing:

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I dont see the changes suggested in the OP as QOL, but rather a significant buff

Furthermore, I dont think she needs them

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That’s a point.
That can’t be denied.

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The return time is QUITE the nerf though. It makes it a lot easier for you to feed via Rez.

Overall though - yeah, too much buff

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I know your stance. WIth regard to how it makes Resurrect work, I see it as a nerf, given it allows even more counterplay.

Like I said above, I also dont think she needs this and would rather they remove Resurrect entirely but as a middle gound this is how I see making Resurrect as distanced as possible from Mercy and her movement while giving even more opportunities for counter play

Can you iterate a bit more? I spent a bit of time writing this up and would like a bit more feedback than that.

I dont need you to write another post like the one I did, but a bit more than that would be appreciated.

I originally didnt want it this way either, but the way it functions currently I feel drags her down a lot.

I agree, its iconic and beautiful but the way it is now, I would rather it be gone, but as a compromise to that, I tried to find a way to make her as fluid as before.

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Ok, give me a couple of minutes though. I need to get a good reply together. You put a lot of work into this, and it deserves a well written response.

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TL:DR Mercy is OP. Her hitbox is way too small and skill-less Mercy mains keep on whining for more buffs. They think her instant self heal isn’t good enough. They should buff her to 400HP then they’ll say “She’s fine”

Personally, I would never want single resurrect removed from Mercy.

I see it as iconic to this character

I appreciate that, thank you.

Also, this is very preliminary and the numbers can be changed around or some mechanics of how it functions as well.

My main goal with it was to preserve the other very important aspect of Mercy in her mobility and make it so that she does not have these awkward moments where she is elegantly flying across the battlefield and how you can tell a good Mercy from another, only to abruptly stop to Resurrect which I don’t see as being as core of an aspect to Mercy as her movement.

I think it’s their way of saying that Resurrection as an ability is deprecated and should not be used. Fine. I get that and for the most part it’s effectively out of the game.

My real issue with Mercy as a hero is that she cannot make any game changing plays. Valkyrie’s been defanged to the point of being an ability that doesn’t do much more than she already can do. This has the effect of making the player feel like they can only sustain but can’t do much to change the tide of a losing game.

Imagine if you took Genji’s ultimate and made it a blade strike that only does slightly better damage than he can only do. You’d still claim that Genji was balanced, right; but you’d hardly expect them to stomach it.

That’s precisely what we’ve asked the Mercy player has to do here. Where twice she had an ultimate that when timed right could change a battle on the wane she cannot directly do such herself anymore. I think this is the primary dissatisfaction with the hero today.

I get it that Rez is mostly useless. I get it that Valkyrie’s either an escape or a way to somewhat help shore up a group. But, did they really had to have to gut her that much… to the point that she’s basically a fill-in support hero? Couldn’t they have given her at least one power move of significance?

Anyway that’s my issue with her. It isn’t so much about any specific ability but to do with the capacity of the hero overall to make a play actually worth a damn.

5 Likes

By that response it is clear you did not read the post. None of these things were said in the original post.

Since you may not have known, TL;DR means too long;didn’t read, and is a little summary some might include after they have read something.

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I can dig this as a pit stop before removing Rez wholly in like another year :+1:t5::+1:t5:
Like… Distance her from Rez to the point of it not being useful, and then eventually take it out

SHHhhh…

But yes, hopefully if this reaches a developer, they can take out the pit stop entirely.

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Sorry to hear you feel that way, OP. Fortunately for most us, I don’t think Mercy is changing any time soon. There is a Workshop available for people to mess around with though. Hopefully that helps you through your time of need.

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This seems op, if her res cast time needs to be shorter (i don’t think we need that) than 1.5 . But 1.75 isn’t bad .

Probably not, given her delicate state and increasing polarity.

I’m not particularly interested, but thank you for the comment. This is just a post to voice my opinions.

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For some reason, a difference in opinion on mercy in particular results in you wanting to force such opinion on everyone. Even if you engage in discussion…
I quite like your reasoning. Although I think numbers can be smoothed

The compensation is that it takes longer for a hero to come back to the fight and the soul is able to de damaged and killed.

In fact, I think I’ll edit it so that the soul has 100 health like a riptire.

I added the time into the “inactive” phase and realized I can give the people targeted time to decline a rez, which is something I wish I had many times.