Dont be like that Trickster, I just found the scenario funny. Also I know you like to stir the argument while asking evidence and data even for why we need to breath.
So, by not retracting those statements and refusal to apologize for such obvious attempt to poison the well you admit that you do not look for an honest discussion that would adhere to the netiquette and rules of reasonable discourse?
It was a silly scenario that I found funny to imagine, there was no intention of poisoning any well. If you dont like it, simply ignore it and take It as an apology.
What I feel is that you are trying to dismiss my takes by continuously reducing them to the most plain and simple aspect that cant be backed up by evidence. Basically there is no evidence, because there was no case to begin with, I cant apport data that we do not have because the argument simply didnt exist. You cant have data on the amount of people that didnt want to take out the shields when there wasnt any general consensus that the shields needed to get rid off.
If my take is that the argument didnt exist, your point should be to show me that it existed.
If my take is that the game lost players since 5v5, you should show me how we gained players, instead Im backing this up on the fact that the game has worse reception now than before.
No no no… I want an actual apology and I want you to rewrite that post without that part (or with that part changed to address actual points)
Own to your mistakes!
If your claims can’t be backed up by evidence what good are they? If we cannot show that they are true, what do they give us?
The answer is nothing. They are just a moo point then…
That is a bit more complicated… You could, for example, have a poll data from back then that would show people liked double shield. Or something like that… But you don’t as far as I know, since you didn’t show us that up to this point…
No… Your take was not that… Your take was that people didn’t care about double shields. That is moving the goal post…
Now where is the actual written apology (and I don’t mean disingenuous “treat this as apology if you want”)
Well. Forgive me for saying that, just to show that I dont want to engage in a hard boiled argument neither to hurt anyone.
The evidence is that the devs argument that this was something we asked when we didnt ask it, the lack of evidence is the evidence. If I say something that didnt happen, then the evidence is on the lack of that claim happenning.
And the moo thing makes me smile atleast.
I wish we had that, well we have had polls here and 6v6 always won, we could repeat the polls tho.
But that has relation, if the removal of double shields was something that made the game got a worse reception, and we didnt complain about double shield to begin with, maybe its because we didnt mind it at all.
don’t quote me for very olds topic I wrote in 2021 in an era completely unrelated to current 5v5 (that wasn’t even an expected option), it’s REALLY very ridiculous to bring that up as today’s motivation.
Oh I never made the claim to the contrary, I’m simply challenging your initial assertive gaslighting that “nobody cared about double shield”.
Do you want another wall of posts or has my point been made?
I’m not quoting or using it as motivation, I’m posting the sentiment of the time in regards to the insinuation that the general audience didn’t care about double shield, which is entirely fair game.
Your sentiment may have changed, that’s fine I’m not holding that against you, but historic context is more important in this situation than your subjective shift in stance. This isn’t an attack or an attempt to rally, just pointing out that while Nohrian may have forgotten, the internet in fact did not.
Thats fair, but I still see more people in these threads defending the shields instead of asking for their removal. Which fuels the theory that they were minority.
The fact that the only person trying to gaslight others is you OP… LMAO, double shield was DEFINITELY a problem and reason why i dropped ow in 2020 until OW2 where they made it one tank and one tank only. n_ n Nice try.
While do devs have their burden of proof (and there is a person in this thread that links those posts asking for 5v5) that they need to meet, you also adapt one that you fail to meet.
Just look at it this way… If you claim that butler killed queen, and some one else say he didn’t you both have a burden of proof. You both need to present evidence to back up your claims. And then I come in and say, well… I don’t see the evidence that butler killed her, can you present it? and you say “the other person claims he didn’t and they cannot prove that”. It is a really subtle difference.
Sure. But that still don’t prove that community won’t be upset at the change after a while. Both have their issues and this is what we should discuss, not subjective feelings about a modes.
But we did… And we established that there is no way to actually establish what percentage of people didn’t like double shield and what did… It is impossible at this point. So what we need to look at is actual problems with both (since both have their problems) and not “how many people didn’t like double shields”.
And tbh, I couldn’t care less if we go back to double shield. I never complained about them myself, but I know people that didn’t like that meta.
But butler twisted his moustache, its pretty obvious the Butler killed her. Why else would he twist his carefully conservated moustache and BE A BUTLER if not for killing people?!
Jokes aside, and I will be honest here, its fair. There was people who wanted 5v5, but I will word it different: the people who wanted to turn the game into 5v5 were not majority. If we read these threads, first of all they were only a couple and most of them ended on polarizing discussions that most often than not ended in people disliking the 5v5 aspect. So there was some degree of gaslighting into making people believe that we wanted it, when not everyone did, and had arguments back then to not want the game to turn in what it is now.
Oh yes of course I cant argue that.
Thats honestly the elephant in the room, we do not know the percentages that caters to either mode. We however know that the game is having a negative reception currently, if thats enought proof or not, thats up to each one.
I mean, this is because GOATS is flat out the optimal archetype for Overwatch, because kills don’t directly win games, the objective does. And not dying = more objective time.
Shield wasn’t the problem , you’re missing the whole point of double shields , double shield comp was not just shields , it was orrisa sigma , bap , it was actually the way one could cycle their abilities which would result in 0 downtime of the team taking any damage , sig shield first , it breaks , then comes orrisa shield , that breaks , then comes sigma grasp , that finishes , then comes sign shield again with orrisa fortify , all with baptiste immo. Doe blue shields wasn’t just about shields
Forums are not the only place that devs could see this. There is CC discord for example…
I don’t think they ever claimed that everyone wanted it.
If we want to go with what “everyone” wants then we won’t move forward at all… There is this historical privilege that was utilized in middle ages in Poland. It was called Liberum Veto. It boiled down to the simple thing. Anyone could just stand up during gathering where they made laws and just say ‘Liberum Veto’. While the idea behind it was not “to make sure every one agrees” it actually was “no matter how corrupt the governing body, there will by one that is just and stop them” it actually boiled down to “you know what? I don’t like this idea so lets bomb it”. So yeah, this is not a good idea.
Sure, no arguments there.
I myself stopped playing right now for a few reasons. But none of it were related to game being 5v5. Most of the issues comes from mismanagement of the game itself, since the actual game play is still fun to many. What is bad is how it is all managed. Excluding some countries from events because of revenue loss fears, not apologizing for doing it when pointed out, not giving players options to earn skins in reasonable amount of time for free, not giving us options to use OW1 credits in any way if you have old account (and you have unlocked everything anyway), not letting us buy PvE missions without spending $… And so on… Those are actual issues that game has at this moment.
