Not the shields. Double shield does NOT exist because Orisa and Sigma have good shields. If that was the case, we would have had Rein / Orisa double shields before Sigma existed, and we didn’t.
Double shield exists because of what the tanks can do while their shields are deployed and with range.
Nerfing their shields and buffing their other stuff is exactly how you reinforce double shield, not kill it.
People are going to kneejerk cry at this but to ensure double shield isn’t a go-to comp you need to buff shields to standalone levels of use and nerf the rest of their kit so that they benefit strongly from a classic offtank.
For example, buff Sigma shield slightly, nerf grasp, nerf primary fire range
Mainly because prior to Sigma, was also before the other tanks were nerfed into the ground.
Back then, there was more synergy between the tanks and supports and they simply rushed through Orisa’s shield. Once her shield was out of the way, Orisa’s large critbox ensures that she dies quickly. Despite people claiming that Orisa was a counter to dive, the fact was, Orisa was the least picked tank during dive meta because of her vulnerability once you got through her shield, and that weakness persisted this entire time.
With the other tanks being mobile (i.e. they walk through her shield), Orisa relied more on the other tank to keep her alive once her shield was breached, she dies quickly and the Reinhardt, with his more mobile shield is the one that survives and becomes the solo tank while Orisa walks back from spawn again… and again… and again…
It’s why despite claims about there being a double shield meta, she’s actually the worst tank from bronze to masters (and arguably even in grandmasters) from January up until the hog patch. Once you break her shield, you can kill her through heals even with fortify. There’s no coordination needed to shoot the slow bulky target right in front of you.
Because Orisa and Sig both have alternative self defense abilitys unlike Rine. High level teams not only rotate out sheilds but also fortify and grasp with each other. This is why Rine is weak in double sheild despite having the best sheild.
But I’d agree, and I think many others do believe dps is the reason for sheild heavy comps. The devs did finally listen to our dps power creep complaints and the game did get way better when dps were nerfed. Unfortunately they then gave unnecessary stupid buffs to Solider and the Widow nerf hasn’t effected her that much in higher ranks.
So let’s hope we dont repeate history, by side stepping the problem for 2 years. And lets just nerf damage again.
On the other hand, the barriers are what I dislike about double barrier, regardless of whether it’s actually the vital ingredient for the comp. If Orisa and Sigma’s barriers were outright replaced with something less annoying, I wouldn’t mind playing into Origma.
Also, we’ve been down the road of nerfing Orisa’s gun back with the (now reverted) 10 dmg/bullet nerf and it was awful.
A 2shield meta is roughly speaking countered by 1 shield break dps (like junk or bast) and 1 sharpshooter. That is the pug ladder friendly approach (ofc there are tons of put together comps/strats/tactics that circumvent shields).
Fair and insightful, but quite a lot of people will stop playing Orisa or Sigma if they are turned to shieldbots with no damage. Because it’s boring to be a shield bot.
I, for example, when got tired of long DPS queues, tried Sigma (people told me his primary fire is similar to Junkrat – I’m a Junk main) – and started doing surprisingly well. But then they started nerfing every part of his kit.
I would be fine with nerfs only to shield and grasp (I agree Sig was slightly OP), but nerfs to primary fire and accretion make the hero boring to play (not fun to play shield bot with low damage).
On the other hand: tanks with high damage are OP AF because they’re essentially better DPS (what’s the point in having damage heroes in the team if tanks have just as much damage but much more hitpoints?).
I agree but I’d rather see that they limit one barrier tank per a team at max as a fainal solution. You can still run two off tanks if you wish. This would allow more balancing for sigma and orisa.
With double hitscans being good, or double snipers, and single barrier being bad against it, double shield it is the way to go to counter them.
The counter to double shield should be Dive, but then you add double or triple stun to double (or triple) shield to counter Dive too. Done, you have a comp that can answer to all of it.
Sort of. Basically you are saying that Douible Shield exists because of Sigma.
The main issue is the UPTIME shields had, not the damage Sigma and Orisa can pull off. You dont see Sigmas and Orisas wiping entire teams ever, not even in double shield … so yeah, no.
Again, not really.
If you nerf the shield uptime, then damage becomes more important and in that department Zarya, Roadhog and Ball are superior and … TADA! thats why they are the most used tanks.
yea the low damage orisa was maybe not so bad to play against, but felt terrible to play.
Orisa is actually pretty fun now that her gun is useful (yet people still call her boring just because she used to be). in the past your job was mostly just to press E every time the shield comes off cooldown. now you have to be part of the fight and land your shots.
could be that nerfing the damage would solve double shield but it would also make no one want to play the character.
All but one of my friends stopped playing OW due to double shield, so I honestly don’t care what the pickrates look like: having tanks that can shoot and stun and CC at range while they are shielding is a horrible concept that undermines both hero design and map design.
When you combine too many barriers - Sigma+Orisa+Mei for example - the game becomes this unsatisfying Groundhog Day experience where all the team fights occur the same way no matter where you are on the maps. It sucks to watch (OWL/streams) and it sucks to play.
There’s been a lot of optimism and positivity around the balancing that’s been done in the past 5-10 months, but any extended return to double shield will seriously hurt this game.
personally i would be fine with removing sig shield but giving grasp the ability to block hook again and possibly a lower cooldown i dont think sig is op but i do think that a hybrid tank was a mistake