[2.4 Patch] Pvp is compromised - Fast Hit Recovery / Stun Issue

Dear Blizzard,

Please listen to the PvP Community - keep the game as good as it was for 20 years.

Listen to players that played D2 Lod that far and just ask to do the same with D2R.

PvP in Diablo II is a masterpiece, fast paced and extremely fun. Even after 15 years i still enjoy pvp with this remaster.

But with this new patch, the future of PvP is compromised because of this change :

Developer Comments: We want to fix some of the awkward lockouts that reject player input from casting skills. For PVP, we added a way to reduce hit recovery spam to prevent edge cases of characters being locked out for too long.

Note : This change is a PvP only change and doesn’t affect PvM at all.

Some background, Stun is one of the key feature and mechanic that makes pvp fun. Stun works with fast hit recovery (fhr), basicly the more fhr you get the less affected by stun you will be.

However, there is some deadly combo (but very hard to do for some of them - here come the skilled part of PvP) that could lead to instant kill like :

  • for smiters : “smite (give swirlies to opponent) then Fist of Heaven (Foh)” → opponent stunned
  • for hammerdin it’s even harder and deadly : smite then Foh (opponent stunned) then teleport + hammers = kill or at least 1-2 hits.
  • for elemental druid (tornado) it’s even harder but very efficient if done well : close to opponent turn into bear form then use shockwave to give swirlies then turn off bear form uses volcano (opponent stunned) then teleport and tornado = deadly.

To counter stuns, in D2 Lod we had a feature called “WSG” based on Weapon Swith that broke your fhr for a very short time (by pressing Swith hotkey multiples times in row) and helped you to escape deadly situation and even sometimes (with very good timing) to counter attack. However, WSG was not easy to do and requires practice and timing - it even became an art on some characters such as amazon and necromancer.
But WSG was removed with D2R - sadly.

In D2R you still can walk in south and avoid partially deadly situation after being stunned.

However, the problem was with mindblast with multiples traps (lightning and fire), sometimes the players could not escape at all. And it was even worst in Team vs Team with multiple stuns added to mindblast like leap for example. But that occurs in very few situations.

Patch 2.4 “FHR fix” was made in order to fix this issue - but honestly it’s a disaster for all others characters and duels in this game.

After the first hit, you get a stun immunity now.

  • All combos listed above are now useless
  • Fhr is now an useless stat basicly
  • Trapsin is indeed not broken anymore but it’s now an useless PvP character
  • Team vs Team becomes stupid, there is no tactical gameplay, offensive and defensive part since stun is inefficient
  • Being an offensive and “skilled” player is just frustrating and unrewarding, there is no reason to put pressure on opponents since they can escape and even counter attack you (while in this stun immunity)

Players can just teleport around and spam random skills without being interrupted/stunned. The game will end in a defensive fest with random shooting and randomly kill opponents - kinda sad when you know how intense and skilled can be D2 PvP.

How to fix this ? I see only this solution for now :

  • Revert back to 2.3 Fast hit recovery and stun system

  • Or revert back to 2.3 FHR mecanic and add a similar feature as WSG in D2 lod that could be a new hotkey for example that players have to press multiples times (like 3-4) to shortly break FHR and escape stun.

  • Or revert back to 2.3 FHR mecanic and touch only Mindblast but in a smart way.
    For example, after 4 or 5 mindblast you have that stun immunity. That would balance duels against trapsin without touching all other characters and mechanics.

Please consider this solution and let us enjoy the game we like so much.

There is a problem, you can’t just ignore it :

Listen to us, PvP is a key feature of Diablo II.

Thank you.

DHA

1145 Likes

Great writeup as always DHA. Agree with the above summary and we would be happy to help test any other solutions if it would help the devs.

14 Likes

Thanks appreciate it alot

4 Likes

Excellent summary as always.

Dear Blizzard, please review our feedback and support us in making PvP enjoyable again.

Thank you,

10 Likes

Totally agree - great summary of the many issues with PvP

10 Likes

Agreed 100%
Incredible game and amazing re-master. Please help us make PvP great again.

9 Likes

Really? I think its opposite, its one of the mechanics making pvp not fun. Thats why were players complaining about removing WSG.

7 Likes

That’s not why players complained. They complained because WSG (active feature) was removed, leaving no defense against stuns. When WSG existed, it was fine.
Now the active defense was replaced by passive (almost) immunity, making stuns and fhr stat useless.

6 Likes

I think it was awesome they made a change but I am sure they will make changes next patch to dial back the current change. I think dial back the change to where sins aren’t OP and stun combos still work. The biggest issue was MB spam which is why most people used WSG, mostly saw it in any duel vs sins.

2 Likes

Well i dont understand why they just didnt nerf certain stuns from skills. They didnt need to change how fhr works. Because that now affects fhr when even being hit by high dmg.

5 Likes

+1 for reverting back the changes

9 Likes

Please revert back to 2.3 if you guys don’t have a fix otherwise, please

A lot of pvpers are quitting or have alrdy quit because of the fhr changes in 2.4

Pls ;(

6 Likes

That’s a million dollar question :smiley:

4 Likes

At this point in time, PvP needs a big re-haul. All skills should act and behave differently to PvM.

The actual PvP mechanics need to change to like no body pick up or gold. Character soawns at the edge of town when slain by a player. Buffs ate allowed tonbe cast in town merc come back to life if slain by a player. I keep saying this I would like for them to add stuff like dodge dash and charge using your stamina. I want to see prizes and a leader board like a points system. Team duals and solo.

Honestly for me I don’t see how it’s fun it’s just a skill spam fest with most chatacter and teleport need it to be a proper brawl out.

3 Likes

not sure if the almost is for passive or immunity, but it wasnt even needed ^^

Its indeed a stun immunity, you get it passively jusy by getting hit

2 Likes

Great write up and explanation of the current pvp crisis. Please rollback fhr changes!!

4 Likes

That would have been potentially better, right now your life pool, your swirled state - none of it matters, it’s just a flat “damage” or “knockback affect” will put you into immunity.

Stunning a player is a basic requirement in pvp, and at the higher tiers the combos that DHA is explaining is where the skill gap exists (which is now damn near gone). Getting combos/escaping combos/setting up for combos is where the “mastery” of the game was and its not there any more. There were counters to the ‘combos’ that we’re mentioning but it had to be done pretty flawlessly otherwise they were successful. It’s like Mortal Kombat in a way.

Honestly Zax, I’ve seen you mention countless times now that people complain about wanting wsg gone, nobody ever did. WSG was honestly healthy to pvp (never used in pvm).

8 Likes

No no, i was saying that people were complaining about wsg being gone as it was fixed. Lets be honest, it was sick glitch breaking game mechanics. But reality is that stun mechanics also sucks. On some skills its extremely abusing.

1 Like

Oh I see, sorry.

I remember dueling as a kid in like 2004 and a good sin 4v4 team would just wreck us. I took like a year off, came back and team compositions remained the same but the sin was less effective, I’m like yo how are you doing that?? It opened up the game in terms of balance. We do miss it.

I just hope they either revert, tweak existing or redo the FHR mechanic because it’s really just a spam fest. Imagine WoW pvp and everyone is just shooting Shadow Bolt or whatever at each other and hoping for the rng crit to win the game, that’s basically what it has become. We can mitigate for the unfair damage buffs/nerfs fairly well but we can’t do anything to help when a mechanic is not working.

5 Likes

Best would be separated patch with pvp changes where you could join with your existing characters

2 Likes