You just like making stuff up, don’t you? I never said that.
Nobody believes you played horde during vanilla, much less now.
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Why do you think anyone would lie about it.
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Why does it matter? It is a fact that has no impact on the argument.
Ally is broken in PVE, Horde is broken in PVP, AV is just another example of poor balancing. Why are you butthurt with people stating the fact? Who are you defending? The game dev?
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Who is the fake rasta and why would I watch his video?
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Flanking. The Alliance seems used to holding a point as if they’re fighting a raid boss, all their DPS towards the bulk of the Horde forces and their healers in the back. If they’re holding a choke point it’s a somewhat valid tactic, but not so much when trying to capture a graveyard or tower. If a number of Horde break through, by using terrain, stealth, or generous usage of Free Action Potions to get through the wall of slows, the Alliance line breaks. On the weekends when the Alliance wins more, you’ll see a large number hold a point, not several points at once but one at a time, with defenders spread around to counter any flanking.
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This is partly why I roll my eyes every time alliance posters claim that IBGY MUST be held, when what it does is place all of your players right at the muzzle of the gun, one singular target for the horde to aim at. They cannot grasp that it is VASTLY better to spread the targets around.
Yes it’s vastly better for horde if alliance split up as it makes killing them that much easier if they’re in small groups.
Ah that’s right. Horde are always outnumbering the alliance, no matter the situation, by virtue of 80 horde v 40 alliance and the ability to teleport to any place on the map instantaneously.
One of my all time favorites:
I think this one is a good place to stop:
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1.12 is a broken version of the map that favours the horde. (No this isn’t whining, but a statement of facts). I found a very detailed schematic of AV 1.12 and it’s fairly obvious the problems in this map design. Number 1, this retail version of hte map has moved the horde starting cave forward, giving horde a distinct advantage. IBGY and SH we will consider the offensive graveyards. The horde starting position allows the horde to constantly reinforce IBGY with ease, making it difficult for alliance to keep an offensive GY. For this reason SF is a no go as well, as the horde can reinforce this position much more quickly then alliance. As for the graveyards, all graveyards including and past SH are death chokepoints that allows Horde to farm HKs until diminishing returns kick in. IBGY and FWGY on the other hand are wide open and allow for infinite escape routes out of harms way. Having said all that, premade AVs for alliance were the only real way to win and didn’t always guarantee a win for alliance. The only time Blizzard listen to paying customers is when the Horde complain and boy did they ever. AV premade discords required a bare minimum of effort to join, but many alliance complained. Thank god they did so now half the alliance can AFK without punishment and ride the rep gravy train. Horde now no longer get to play against premades which were fun and challenging for both sides. Fewer alliance now queue for premades, horde face longer queues, and noone wins. So there you go. Also, I find it ridiculous that every comment on these forums devolves into personal attacks. I’m an adult and refuse to get into a flame war with children with no sense of decorum. Thank you for your time.
I forget where I found it, but a google search should find it, but there is a very detailed map showing how poorly designed 1.12 is in favour of the horde. This map is a retail version of the map that was designed after alliance dominated AV. The horde starting cave is moved farther up in this version allowing horde reinforcements to constantly block any attempt from alliance capturing IBGY (an offensive GY for the alliance). The horde have an advantage attacking their offensive GY at SH, which is a chockepoint, where horde can sit and farm HKs until diminishing returns make farming pointless. I’m not attacking your point, but simply stating facts using logic and reason, which are fairly new ideas to most people on these forums.
This right here. Having played premades, it can be difficult to defend IBGY even with a coordinated and sizable grp remaining on D at IBGY. I’ve seen it suggested that alliance don’t defend IBGY and that’s why it doesn’t work. This is not true, as stated, in premades alliance would secure IBGY before moving forward, but this did not always guarantee a win.
Ok going to say it again, if you can get 40 players to work together then you win. Or if you can get 20 and they are all on Teamspeak, again a win. On Alliance side until the Alliance stopped playing it there was a good strat. It was turn it into a footrace and take all of the Horde advantage away, yes the map and the way it is configured is in the Horde’s favor played both sides and the strategy works for both, if it gets bogged down it works in the Horde’s favor most of the time. If at least half or more of the Alliance rush the final graveyard and have heals to rez the dead while taking the last two towers it gets really interesting, because now the Alliance is defending from within the Horde base they just have to hold on long enough to get the GY up. Same strat works for the Horde as well, but if they are playing the same old game they dont rush forward fast enough and lose. The trick now is to know whether you are strong enough to kill the Horde bosses if the towers havent fallen or you have to wait for the last two towers to go down and take the boss. Used to also work in the days of PvP gear, you just needed heals and tanks to stay in PvE and they took the boss down, while PvP geared DPS kept the horde at bay an helped kill the bosses.
10% of games (and I’m being very generous) is not consistent lol.
Ahh, so we need a time machine too?
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LOL! Hold on while I crank up my trusty Ventrillo server!
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I’ll consult Thottbot for the best strategy.
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But isn’t it kinda telling that someone with as much conviction as he was still broken after actually experiencing AV as alliance in Classic?
Everyone has their opinion as to why, but I’d be interested in some hard numbers. Need those big muscle tests. Until you have teams of players swapping sides in custom matches or opposite factions, you won’t get any meaningful data. And providing data is the biggest muscle move you can make.
Most just talk about their opinions with no supporting arguments and that tiny muscle stuff.
It is telling that on the subject of AV, he will pot stir no matter the position taken, simply to get reactions.
Well said! I will suggest this post to all the people whining in AV matches now about Alliance losing in AV 99.05 percent of the time. It is extremely rare to enter an AV where even 30 players are there to play and not simply AFK, hit the harpy cave, or do some fishing. It is extremely frustrating for someone who is consistently top 5 in HKs and LTs downed on my mage, and druid. I don’t really enjoy PvE because of the toxicity of a lot of players in raids and now the same can be said for PvP which I was longing for. Premade AV was the most fun I’ve ever had with PvP in WoW. To be honest the requirements weren’t that stringent to get into a premade so it bothers me that allliance complained about premades (only to end up afking in matches anyhow). For Horde players who gloat and tell everyone to “git gud” or “go to retail” I’d say there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what has created this train wreck of a battleground. Also, I hope the horde really enjoy those hour long queue times. Fundamentally, I believe this illustrates this new Blizzard’s problems with recognizing paid subscribers needs. Rather than institute a balanced and fair map (pre 1.12) they put in this trainwreck. From my understanding private servers did a much better job with AV. Blizzard simply enacted the laziest and cheapest solution to AV they could and left it at that.
Few if any horde are saying such things beyond fringe obvious trolls.
The best map and AV content was 1.7. From there on, it was nerf after nerf, with no thought to how the BG was originally designed to be played. But hey, we tried to get them to do the early version and they even acknowledged that desire. But their “clarity” meant more to them. (But were willing to recreate an entire reproduction of early AV… for modern retail WoW)