No one even took 1.12.1 av seriously. It was like 2 months before tbc came out. What makes you think it wont be a zerg fest like private servers? Dude. wake up.
Reinforcements weren’t added until 2.3, AV was a non zerg for quite a long time.
October 29, 2006
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Right the premade vs the pug? I don’t care.
1.12 is the exact same BG as the one in TBC, except for reinforcements. 10+ years of zerging has conditioned players to know full well that zerging is the most efficient way to accumulate Marks of Honor, zerging will be the way it is played, despite the lack of reinforcements.
Reinforcements did not create zergs, it merely catered to them.
The arguments in here saying you can simply not zerg (especially the wrath baby with zero experience with vanilla) are like saying that on black friday you can simply not storm the doors for the best deals at physical stores.
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It doesn’t take the entire BG to break a zerg, a handful of people can do it. The reality is 1.11 AV doesn’t cater to zerging or not zerging, it merely doesn’t force one strat over the other. The people claiming they can’t stop a zerg seem to be mostly people who are just lazy and or bad at pvp.
10+ years of zerging has conditioned players to know full well that zerging is the most efficient way to accumulate Marks of Honor , zerging **will** be the way it is played, despite the lack of reinforcements.
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So you are making a claim based on what might happen in the future instead of what did happen in the past. We know for a fact that zerging did not become the main strat until rteinforcements, not 1.11.
Also marks of honor and rep are a finite thing, once the people who only want those get them they’ll stop queuing.
I guess bold is the new cruise control for cool.
In related news, water has been told that it need not go over Niagra Falls if it simply chooses not to. If it cannot manage to not go over the falls, it is just lazy and bad at gravity.
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Dude. Youre just wrong.
It will be like this:
10 stop and kill cap bal
Rest rush to vandar
Thats whats gonna happen.
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Whelp I guess this is another thing we’ll see in classic. If you’re right people will just zerg AV, if you are wrong and given that AV didn’t turn into a zerg until reinforcements were added it’s likely you will be then plenty of games will not be zergs.
The zerg in retail is not just because of conditioning it’s because reinforcements turned it into the only way to play the map.
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Reinforcements did not create zergs, it merely reinforced them. 10+ years of zerging has conditioned players to know full well that zerging is the most efficient way to accumulate Marks of Honor , zerging will be the way it is played, despite the lack of reinforcements.
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Make Azeroth Great Again. Give us a battleground worth participating in. Not the one that is just a race.
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No to 1.12 AV - From 2005 me, “kkthnxbai”.
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If anything, A.V 1.12 is worse than A.V 2.3 with reinforcements, and this is very sad to say as reinforcements were an absolute terrible addition.
Do you know why Blizzard added reinforcements and adjusted the B.G in Burning Crusade? Because from the 1.12 version to the 2.2 version, the Alliance won up to 70-80% of the A.Vs while the two others BGs were closer to 50% winrate. After the changes in 2.2, Alliance was still winning 60%. Kalkan a.k.a Tom Chilton himself announced this prior to the 2.2.
The map hugely favors the alliance in the zerg rush and it was extremely popular by TBC.
When 2.3 hit, the Horde was hugely favored this time around, although it took a while to understand the strategy needed for them to win: Turtle at Iceblood and wait for the reinforcement to wear down. Even then, the alliance was still winning a good amount of AV, as they just needed to cap the southern graveyards for the horde to fall back and having their defense at Iceblood weakened.
Funnily enough, the Alliance literally boycotted the BG and blizzard adjusted the entrance of the horde cave within a month or a couple of months while it took them a year to address the issue of 1.12.
So no, 1.12 is an absolute mistake to do and the solution to avoid is to go further back in time with an anterior version like 1.5 or 1.8.
There is no way to avoid the zerg rush in Classic, and even if the horde turtles, it is easy for the alliance to sneak through and tag the southern graveyards.
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Yeah i’d love to see your numbers for that massive 80% alliance win rate pre 2.3.
Horde had that win rate post 2.3 briefly before alliance yes boycotted the BG. Blizzard never tweaked AV because of the boycott they just let the fact that horde were cool with losing in a zerg ride.
And sneaking through and tagging GY’s that’s not how a zerg works… that’s you know actual pvp strategy that can be countered by pvp. If a handful of stealthers cap a GY and your side doesn’t take it back that is your fault not the fault of the map.
Nop, Horde never reached 80% win rate in A.V during TBC. They were favored but Alliance was still winning a fair amount. And Blizzard did change the entrance of the cave because of the boycott.
I did not say sneaking past was a zerg rush, I meant that even if the horde would try preventing the rush by turtling; they would eventually lose because people would just sneak past through them to tag the southerns GY.
How can you say “It’s not fault of the map” when it is widely known that 2 mages can defend the alliance bridge by themselves and not even rogues can sneak through?
I will find you the data from TBC, find me the one saying horde had 80% after 2.3. Unfortunately, for the moment, I only have an article from an online video game quoting Kalgan but their direct link to his statement is dead. So I am trying to find his statement again… I am 99% I am correct on this though; prior to 2.2 the alliance was winning up to 70/80% of AVs.
As I recall at the time they said some battle groups were 40-60 win ratios but that over all it evened out.
And what is your explanation for alliance boycotting the BG post reinforcements if not that it guaranteed horde a win unless both sides zerged?
PLEASE use an older version of AV than 1.12, make people have to do things other than zerg the end boss… ![:frowning:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")
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This is a big miststep for the devs to use the 1.12 version of AV. That is not the version of AV that people are lovingly remembering. I’d much prefer the 1.5-1.6 version, 1.8 was alright but having korrak on the flag wasn’t the best since most didn’t even want that graveyard. Having him out the field of strife as an obstacle was much much better. They also removed a ton of NPC’s in 1.8, which made it easier to zerg passed things.
1.5 was where it’s at. Mobs were hard enough you needed to group up and help each other to get things done. The minelayers were fantastic at messing up people just trying to run through. It was just much more frontline vs frontline holding while stealth units and backlines completed quests to get NPC’s to help break the enemy lines.
1.12 version of AV is after they started turning that BG into the exact opposite of what it was supposed to be. Zergs would run by each other in a rush to kill the enemy general first and along the way a few would stop an cap the essential points. Since most of the NPC’s were taken out it was an easy run and due to nerfs combined with raid gear the NPC general and his guards were pushovers. I remember v1.12 of AV very well, it wasn’t fun and that carried over into BC where things just got worse.
Not having the AV version that most associate with classic is truly sad. People want that BG that goes on for hours or even days. It was all about pride for your faction and not wanting the enemy to win, that was course was ruined by streamlining AV and the mark of honor grind. I can only say that I’m extremely sad they are including the absolute worst version from the Classic era.
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