Elite NPC Damage is Way Off (Plausible Evidence)

(Priapis) #62

When they did this change, it was when they made elites outside of dungeons and involved in quests outside in the world, to be non-elite. It should not have had any affect on dungeon bosses.

(Savax) #63

Yeah elites in Vanilla hit hard, they could one shot cloth wearers…I remember. I hope Blizzard checks the numbers and makes sure it’s accurate.

(Fyedora) #64

Guys, a group should not be able to AOE through a dungeon in Vanilla 1.12 (or even TBC, or on Vanilla pservers) when the mobs are higher level. There is no room for argument on this.

Yes, memories and pservers can be inaccurate. But this is a huge qualitative inconsistency we are talking about here, not a fine quantitative difference of tuning.


In that case he would do way too much dmg, but you forget that

a) Armor damage reduction has an attacker level component
b) He still uses a shield

You can expect him to get close to the 75% reduction cap. If he got hit for 35, we’re talking up to 140 against 0 armor. The lvl 19 druid from the video has 1808 armor, which should be like 45% DR on that level (just an educated guess), and he takes 45-80 dmg, which seems right. (140*0.55 = 77)

tl;dr: from video evidence in this thread the dmg is correct.

(Savax) #66

Quest mobs are correct yes… dungeons are a different story.

(Galdor) #67

When Blizzard comes out and says the damage numbers are correct, are you going to accept that or are you going to tell them “there’s no way! You’re wrong! I remember!”

(Salana) #68

It did look at Archaedas. Level reduced from 47 to 40. The more “important” dungeons (like strat) didn’t see such changes but it did happen. On my phone so it’s rather bit tricky to quickly post all the affected bosses.

(Fyedora) #69

I remember just a few months ago when the Classic Demo had 2x spell crit damage as baseline (which was obviously ludicrously wrong), and countless people here were defending it and making the same arguments of “you just don’t remember correctly”, or “your pservers are just wrong”. And then finally months later Blizzard quietly admitted it they were wrong.

(Galdor) #70

The difference being, you can go onto reddit right now and watch video comparison of these dungeons that was posted in 2006 that completely debunks this.

Go onto reddit and instead of reading the fear-mongering OP on one of these damage threads, scroll down and look at the people doing the math and posting the video evidence. The damage numbers are correct.

(Salana) #71

People are more capable now if the numbers are the same, and they have to stay that way because of no changes. No buffing mobs to create a game that has comparative difficulty to what vanilla was when it was last available.

(Gisen) #72

Could be indeed both. How likely it is though ? Eh, who know honestly. It’s not like we can rely on database made by players and even less rely on our memories since it been so many years since then.

So who know, maybe Vanilla was easyier than we remember it to be. Let’s be honest we we’re all kids without much experience in mmo’s at that times(cough well most of us including me…). For some of us that was even our first mmo (Unless you we’re playing Everquest or DAOC).

(Salana) #73

Innocent until proven guilty. That’s how everything in the recreating vanilla wow for classic should operate. But that doesn’t mean people should accept what exists as dogma.

(Savax) #74

All kids with no MMO experience? Lol

(Gisen) #75

Yeah i changed that to a ‘’ cough well most of us including me…’’ in an edit. Because im pretty sure there was many adults too.

But it doesn’t change the fact that we got much better at these kinds of games since Vanilla era.

(Fyedora) #76

Care to link them? I found some reddit threads showing Vanilla SFK, but nothing on BFD, or addressing subject of elite mobs doing same physical damage as non elites in dungeons.

The bosses so far seem fine, they do good damage. It could be a bug in calculating mitigation for mob damage (maybe a debuff is too strong?).

I also found this thread, where Blues just found a bug causing too much mitigation in the Classic Beta (because Stoneskin totem effect wasn’t expiring): https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/bq5rxj/can_someone_explain_this_discrepancy_in_mob/

(Galdor) #77

Yeah, the Stoneskin totem bug is a thing. A lot of what I’m seeing is Alliance player comparisons so it can’t even apply.

Here’s one of the threads I’m looking at:

The OP actually edited it now and crossed out a bunch of stuff and admitted he was wrong about it. Already got 1900+ upvotes as people are just wanting the numbers to be wrong.

No changes? What about the nerfed elites that give a lot of XP?
(Kaivax) #78

We tested this issue in our reference environment today.

First, we looked at a video from the WoW Classic Beta, where the player was tanking Rhahk’zor in Deadmines at level 20:

If you look at his portrait while he’s getting hit, you can see him receiving 65-83 damage from Rhahk’zor. The average hit is ~75.

We then recreated it in the WoW Classic Beta-- a level 20 human warrior with similar gear, with Defensive Stance, and with Mark of the Wild. Here’s what that looked like:

We then did the same thing in our 1.12 reference environment. There, the test looked like this:

Conclusion: the average damage taken is identical.

Dungeon and ELITE damages - do it right for god sake
Big problem with mob damage
No changers
Dungeon and ELITE damages - do it right for god sake
Big problem with mob damage
Please fix the combat log
Dungeon and ELITE damages - do it right for god sake
How would you feel if they changed the Manual Crowd Pummeler to not have charges but a CD instead?
No changes? What about the nerfed elites that give a lot of XP?
#Nochanges was a lie
Is classic actually classic?
Nathanos just went down to level 40s
Big problem with mob damage
(Mini) #79

Thanks for clearing it up!


So glad the devs are active. Make me so happy!


People who were raging about this were people from private servers not people who recalled it from vanilla.