Nathanos just went down to level 40s

(Eruanna) #335

There was a vast difference between the early days and the end days of Vanilla.

Nathanos was difficult early on. People were just learning the game, and everyone still had crap gear. It easily took a raid group (and then some) to bring him down.

By the end of Vanilla, we all had stupidly good gear, and he was easy. I soloed him in full GM gear. Vanilla was way more gear dependant than anything after.

Instead of calling people liars, maybe acknowledge that people will REMEMBER the fight differently, because THEIR experiences were different from yours.

Now on topic… I think we’ll just have to wait and see about numbers. Maybe they still need a little tweeking. I’ve seen other posts about mobs being much too easy to drop. People who have screen shots of combat from Vanilla, who have compared the exact same mobs in the beta are finding the damage and health really low.


we talking about the same nathanos in epl right ?, hes not much of a raid boss he has 70k hp and took him out with 5 60 peeps simi geared

(Fobnop) #337

Resorting to insults is the hallmark of someone losing an argument, thanks for proving my point here. YOU do not have the raw data in front of you. THEY do. YOU are going off what you “remember” and they have already proven that most of you are remembering wrong. End. Of.


Just to throw this in here: staysafe mentioned this morning that the 58 warlock on the AV realm has less health and spell power than his 40 on the Beta realm.

Just found that interesting to the point of this thread.

(Brockthorn) #339

Just remember…they are pushing 1.12 data through 7 expansions of changes and hoping what comes out is still 1.12.

It’s not the data that should be questioned but the code that data is going through and what results are output.

We are indeed getting a franken-wow.

(Fobnop) #340

Possibly in some cases. But they seem to be going out of their way to get it right, checking and changing where necessary. It may not be 100% dead on but it’ll be close. People saying it’s off are relying on their memories and we all know that everyone remembers things differently.

I’ll just leave this here, and for me this conversation is over:

(Brockthorn) #341

I don’t disagree Fobnop. But bugs do need to be opened when behavior seems different and there are patches from various expansions that altered things. The devs can’t possibly cover every line of code that got changed over all those expansions.

Data might be 1.12 but the resulting behavior may not be and worth a bug report to be verified one way or another.

In AV, for example, they are using a terrain exploit on the Alliance side to get to Van. In vanilla there was only 1 reported terrain exploit down by the Horde GY.

But in TBC, 2.3 the AV terrain got changed.

It’s quite possible that the 2.3 terrain change is in the beta.

(Xanthak) #342

This is something that I’ve been asking people to check. How do we know the hp and mana values from Vanilla are the same as Classic? Did anyone check?


Because gear makes a bigger difference than levels. His 40 Warlock is probably in BiS while the gear they’re giving the 58s is pretty trash.

(Brockthorn) #344

I have the Brady Bestiary book. He’s not in there otherwise I would have posted those values.


Exactly, and this is why the idea that 80 40’s couldn’t take down a plain jane 62 elite is not a viable one. The beta is all kinds of weird because of how they are a locked at a certain level and can farm ad nauseum for stuff that no regular 40 would be capable of having without leveling out of 40.


This is just something that, without any kind of video proof, we will just have to trust Blizzard on. And I, for one, have full faith in this team because of other things they have done.

I don’t see why the values would be different if they have the old database.

(Xanthak) #347

We have no choice but to trust Blizzard. But color me skeptical that if they did find an issue that would take time to fix, they would tell us.

Example, let’s say they found some discrepancy in the amount of damage mob A did. But, the root cause was because of some property/mob attribute, like let’s call it “special_mob_damage_super”, which doesn’t exist in Retail. This means that that mob attribute damage would have needed to have been translated through retail.

To fix that, they may need to re calculate the entire combat engine. Do you think they’d admit to that difference - creating more work for them?

I don’t. Now am I saying that mob damage is inaccurate? No, this is just an example of what boss damage being inaccurate can cause and something that i doubt Blizzard would admit.


Yes. They took time to do spell batching, which 99% of players didn’t even know about.

They also had to redo all of hunters pet loyalty and leveling stuff because it was completely removed from the game.

This team I have a lot of faith in, not Blizzard in general.

(Primalmatter) #349

People know a world dragon was downed by level 1-3 hunters right?

Stat scaling isn’t really the same as it is in current wow. While the boss will butcher massive amounts of people it will die through attrition.

(Xanthak) #350

As far as I know, spell batching was a super duper easy change. Also, “layering” - a special technology they created just for Classic - as they sold it to us, is nothing but realm level sharding. Another potential easy change.

Yeah there were obviously some core mechanics they needed to add - like pet loyalty. But once they got the “obvious features” out of the way, imo I think their attitude is sit on our hands and do nothing. Make 80% of the player base happy (retail 1.12 champions) and forget about the rest of the 20%.

Basic business mentality. They know they can’t please everyone.

(Brockthorn) #351

I’ve been following the hunter stuff…still not quite there.
pet loyalty going up way to quickly with very little time needing to feed.

(Eaglesgift) #352

They have something way more that the old database. They actually have a version of 1.12 running on 1.12 data with the old client and the old server - they are running the 2006 code. Any situation that comes up can be set-up in the old game and run.

Mistakes can be made. Things should be called out if they look or feel wrong, but Blizzard and can and is actually playing these things out to verify it is working correctly, or not.


I guess I see how they are doing things differently based on a lot of minor things they fixed that really has no bearing on the game (lamp color for one). And the damage thing is important enough that I believe if it was off, they would fix it. And they say it matches their 1.12 original engine they have running, and there has been tons of video evidence that verifies this claim.

I am not trying to put words in your mouth or trying to psychoanalyze or anything, but I do believe that a lot of people that were hoping/praying for 1.1-1.12 are so disappointed that they cannot believe that the devs are actually going full bore to make it as close to 1.12 as possible.

But I understand that frustration, but I don’t think it means that they are being lazy. In fact, I think they have worked incredibly hard on this based on what I have seen.

(Mini) #354

Needing to feed went down as loyalty levels increased.

As I remember it to get from 1-2 was just and hour time spent with pet put at yellow/green. From 2-3-4 and so on was an hour out with you while also needing to gain 10% of your current level to next level worth of xp, quests not included.