Inconsistencies in Classic WC3 that you want to see fixed in Reforged

General Discussion
1

I decided to make a separate post where we can pool our discovered inconsistencies to be fixed. Since they want the Quel’thalas invasion to be fleshed out, might as well fix everything that was inconsistent right in front of us.

Here’s what I found and compiled so far:

  • Remove Darkspears in Blackrock and Roll and Blackrock and Roll Too [1]
  • Replace Ogres with Nerubians or whatever decent Northrend creeps in Dissension
  • Replace Far Seers with WC2 Death Knights in Blackrock and Roll Too [2]
  • Remove Blue Drakes in The Siege of Dalaran [9]
  • Replace Dwarf units with High Elf units in The Siege of Dalaran and Under the Burning Sky [3]
  • Replace the Mountain King with a Paladin in the Gilnean Brigade in Cry of the Warsong
  • Replace Heretics with more fitting creeps like Satyrs or evil Highborne mages in The Oracle
  • Replace Mystics with Druids of the Talon in Brothers in Blood [4]
  • Replace Shamans with Warlocks/Necrolytes/Death Knights in Tomb of Sargeras
  • Replace Furbolg Experiment with a decent creep like Gnoll, Orc, or Troll in The Dungeons of Dalaran [8]
  • Change Jailor Kassan’s model in The Dungeons of Dalaran[6]
  • Replace Red Dragons with Nether Dragons in Gates of the Abyss
  • Replace fel Kodo Beasts with something like Shadow Council Necrolytes in Gates of the Abyss and Lord of Outland [5]
  • Change the elves to their High Elf versions in King Arthas
  • Remove Dwarven units in Dreadlord’s Fall [7]
  • Change Sorceresses in To Tame a Land into their High Elf versions
  • Redo Darkspear Trolls’ voicelines, or maybe just the birth sound

And for reforged:

  • Remove the Kodo Beast in the Departures official screenshot
  • Replace the Darkspear Troll in the The Culling 2018 Demo
  • Bring back the Stratholme Harbor in The Culling 2018 Demo
  • Remove Gul’dan’s head in his doodad corpse
  • Change the gate design in the Human Campaign selection screen [10]

[1] The Darkspears have got NOTHING to do with Blackrock Clan, better replace them with something like Orc Spearthrowers

[2] Far Seers in Blackrock Clan is a huge contradiction. The clan’s demonic connections and fel use should have made the elements and spirits abandon the clan members already.

[3] Not even Wildhammer Shamans have got anything to do with Dalaran, because Shamanism is quite far from Arcane. Much more with Dwarf Riflemen, Steam Tanks, or even Gnomish Gyrocopters, Better replace them with High Elf Archers, Ballistae, and Dragonhawk Riders.

Edit: or let’s say Dalaran is the last standing Alliance bastion in WC3, then the enemy team should be themed with Alliance forces like Lordaeron Refugees, Aerie Peak Reinforcements, Alliance Loyalist High Elves, and the main Kirin Tor body; kinda makes sense since if you’re going to unleash literal doom on the planet, might as well face the all-out combined might of the Alliance

[4] I don’t know what Mystics are but if they are arcane mages, then they are contradicting to the Night Elves’ ban on arcane, much more even to the Wardens, since they (Maiev, particularly) hate the Highborne so much. But their spells are apparently shamanistic (Purge and unusable Bloodlust) so it may be somewhat “a little bit druidic”. But still…

[5] There is LITERALLY NO REASON for fel Kodos to be in Outland, there can’t be some Warsong orc to smuggle some fel Kodos back inside the Dark Portal. Better change them into something fel-orcish like Necrolytes.

[6] I’m pretty sure that Bandit model in Classic was just a placeholder, come on he’s a prominent member of the Kirin Tor, at least give him some decent formal Battlemage Captain armor, maybe a Captain variant but with Eye of Dalaran as the tabard?

[7] The Dwarves are supposed to be on a “picnic” on that time, and then it doesn’t even make more sense for them to have Gryphon Riders but players can’t get them on the next chapter.

[8] Again, no reason for a Furbolg to end up in Dalaran before Archimonde destroyed it (I don’t think some Alliance Expeditions would bring home some Furbolgs either, that would greatly insult the Night Elves), change it to something like Troll or Orc, which further reinforces the Alliances’ hatred for the Second War Horde

[9] The Kirin Tor is in good relations with all the Dragonflights. There’s no good reason for them to be experimenting on their children.

[10] Lordaeron Campaign screen lore error

I’d like to see more what inconsistencies you found.

50 Likes
2

I 100% agree and would like to add my own and a few comments.

I would like the continuity error to be fixed in the TFT Alliance Campaign - Chapter 1 & 2. Link to post discussing details is below.

East and west were obviously mixed up with respect to dialogue, map geography, and lore.

I agree. However, I’d rather just see ice trolls. Trolls are always joining orc hordes. But that’s just taste. Your solution is just as lore abiding so I would be fine with either fix.

That would be cool, but I would also be fine with warlocks. Just having shamans was lazy and lore breaking.

I’d rather see a human warrior personally. The mountain king to makes it more interesting/diverse. I don’t want to see the gilneans just changed into dwarves as that would change lore and gilneans get so little screen time as it is, but there are too many paladins. Again, just personal preference. Also, a dwarf could have been with the gilneans so I don’t see this one as a top priority.

Agree with everything else except I don’t mind the dwarves in Dalaran at all. I would like to see more elves, maybe making one of the bases being a purely elf base, but I don’t think the dwarf units need changing.

5 Likes
3

I’ve spent thousands of hours in the Warcraft universe, mostly WC3 multiplayer matches, but also several campaign playthroughs, hundreds of hours in WoW and read around 10-15 Warcraft related books to understand the whole background story. So even though not playing Warcraft 1 or 2, I’ve soaked up 90% of the other information that is out there regarding the Warcraft universe and therefore probably know more about the Warcraft lore than 95% of people which will play the campaign.
But STILL nothing you described here came to my mind originally, it just didn’t catch the eye, since the WC3 campaign is so wholesome and well-rounded overall.
So I guess the things bothering you would only be recognized by 1-2% of the playerbase when they would be changed and only 0.1% of all players would actually care or be bothered by those minor inconsistencies, while the majority of players would benefit from solving all the other issues out there you can read about in the forum… so I really hope Blizzard focuses on all the important stuff first before working on highly irrelevant stuff like this. Sorry, just my opinion.

5 Likes
4

We will hate ALL retcons, or we will hate on nothing at all. That includes inconsistencies.

7 Likes
5

Yes ! Thank you for listing all of those, it’s important that the dev hear of it. I think you listed most of the issues, there are some in Quel’Thalas too, but we learned in the deep dive that the dev were working on it, such as making elven archmages, we can only hope they are aware of the remaining inconsistencies and if not that they can read this post.

I like the proposed replacements, some might be tricky such as putting a WC2 death knight but it is not a bad idea and definitely worth a shot.
I believe that the most obvious inconsistencies and most important to correct are the Darkspear trolls, and fel kodos, they are just so out of place.

I’m not too shocked by the dwarves being present in Dalaran as they are allied, but slightly change the name like you proposed such as Lordaeron refugees or aerie peak reinforcements is a great idea.

5 Likes
6

I have always understood [3] to include dwarven reinforcements sent to help Dalaran. Neatly answers the question “what were the dwarves doing during Warcraft 3?”

[4] You play Blackrock Orcs specifically in the Warcraft 2 level showing the Tomb of Sargeras. If the novels say otherwise, it’s one of the post WoW retcons.

I like the idea of replacing Blackrock headhunters with forest troll axe throwers though.

4 Likes
7

I assume they were helping the Gnomes deal with Gnomeregan or they have their own problems with the Dragonmaw Clan. Maybe the Dwarves in Dalaran may have come from Aerie Peak or Dun Garok as reinforcements

8

I would love to see that too, since their new models for the forest trolls are very cool, but is it correct lorewise ? I believe the forest trolls declined the offer to join the orcs, though i’m not very knowledgeable about troll history from before W3.

9

I believe that is because the Black Tooth Grin clan is in fact a splinter clan of the massive Blackrock clan.
I think neither is technically incorrect.

I’m wrong that you play black team colour orcs in those missions (You actually do play Red) and the black colour denotes Black Tooth Grin.
Red is Blackrock.
But again, that’s semantics as the Black Tooth Grin clan is a sub-clan so to speak.
They’re an elite scouting force led by Rend and Maim at the behest of Blackhand.

10

Personally, I’d think they would shift the whole map into something like that Dalvengyr’s base would be in the Purgation Isle

I don’t think they would scrap out the Gilnean Brigade, they even made a novel that recalls that (Wolfheart I think?) whereas this is exactly the reason why Darius Crowley managed to cause a civil war in Gilneas. I agree with a human warrior though.

Since Cry of the Warsong is a battle against human nations, I was thinking maybe we could get unique units as theme for each enemy team:

  • WC2 Paladins and Chaplains for Lordaeron
  • Hydromancers and Marine Gunmen for Kul Tiras Elite Corps
  • Troll Slayers for Stromgarde Brigade
  • Druids of the Pack and Houndmasters for Gilneas Brigade
  • and probably High Elves, Dwarves, and Kirin Tor.
6 Likes
11

I completely agree with your thread here my friend. this is the correction we need. not for the story to be retconned by wow.

3 Likes
12

You play red in Tomb of Sargeras: xhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=61gFpu3braY
In Tides of Darkness the player is only black-colored in act 2, against Stromgarde.

2 Likes
13

Then I stand corrected. You’re on a roll.

I’ve edited to point out my mistake.

14

Yeah forest trolls officially left the Horde. But it’s not far-fetched to imagine some stayed with Blackrock Orcs, as some high elves stayed with the humans (the War3 manual states high elves have officially left the Alliance by the start of Reign of Chaos, Kael rejoined before Frozen Throne).

1 Like
15

I see, I stand corrected

1 Like
16

Maybe they could also properly explain Maiev and Kael’s absence in RoC :smiley:

3 Likes
17

Kael was busy packing his magical boxes

1 Like
18

Those were packed after Silvermoon’s fall, so not funny.

19

He was already packing, he knew those goblins want them all dead

20

Bumping this because yes.