Being brainless fan of old lore is stupid

I can’t blame them though.

Even though I don’t mind the Draenei retcon, Murdain not dying, Cenarius and the demons being resurrected (technically this one is expanded lore, not retcon). I hate the retcons of the Vault of the Wardens, the Highmountain Tauren, and the Dream Grove. I wish Classic WoW would re-retcon Legion and BFA.

There are things in the canon that I also really don’t like. The main bosses of The Burning Crusade, especially Kael’Thas on the side of the Legion. I wish it never happened. But all these hateful things are future events regarding Warcraft 3. The canonical events of the Third War, in my opinion, contain nothing terrible or hateful. For example, the ice bridge to the Sunwell or the battle of Arthas against Anasterian.

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I was too expecting Reforged to be Warcraft 4 but it’s not :frowning:.

I don’t mind the ice bridge tbh. Literally in the opening screen, the map shows Sunwell Isle far from Silvermoon and yet in game it’s literally connected. So the ice bridge would be really just an expanded lore and not a retcon

The goblin zeppelins and way gates can be easily explained by “gameplay purposes”

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Is there anything really terrible in the canonical events of RoC and TFT? Something that under no circumstances would be desirable to see in Reforged.

My post here:

I’m desperate for Blizzard to notice this one

Not quite. The return of Arthas from northrend is iconic. The culling is a great point of character development for Arthas, but nothing more.

Like illidan that take the skull of Gul’dan is character development but is iconic when he summon the naga.

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They explain that. Maiev (like Fandral) is “pro Elven Superiority” like “we DESERVE to return immortal” so he doesn’t seek help from other races because she hate doing that. In fact only because she lost all the warden in Outland she accept the help from akama (all in “illidan” the novel during legion).

Before that (in Wolfheart that now is retconned because here Maiev became a Villain) she kill elven and worgen and try to kill Malfurion and when she escape she scream quote like “we deserve to return immortal etc etc”

They simply need to redoing all that scene with Maiev because like you said is insane that she doesn’t seek help from Fulborg/Tauren/Hearthen/ etc

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It’s even more weird that there’s literally no medium (yet?) that redeems or even explains Maiev after that. I only saw some speculations of Maiev being controlled by the Twilight’s Hammer or the Legion that time but other than that, I saw no official confirmation from Blizzard.

And then in BFA she’s fighting alongside Malfurion, the Gilneans and Highborne like nothing happened that time.

Also, I thought the Watchers who survived sought refuge with the Alliance Expedition and/or the Draenei? Didn’t expect them to be wiped out other than Maiev (I just played Shadows of Hatred and I based my assumptions there)

Yeah sorry I suck in English, I was talking about the earthen.

For Maiev is a big mess:

I try to explain and I’m sorry for my lack of English:

In Warcraft 3: Maiev follow illidan into Outland. She chain him but Kael and Vashj stop her and we don’t know nothing more.

In World of Warcraft TBC: We know that illidan trapped Maiev like she does to him and akama is her Jailer. During the assault of of the black temple akama free her and she kill illidan and she said “the hunter is nothing without the prey. Now I’m nothing”.

In the novel “WolfHeart”: Maiev return to Darnassus from train a new generation of warden. During this time her brother Jarod come back from exile (because his wife die of old age and want to die in the land of their people). In this time a lot of shit happened: some Worgen and Hightborne are killed and Maiev and her warden are searching. Jarod follow Maiev and learn that she’s the killer and try to capture and kill Malfurion. From Malfurion POV Maiev is become insane and in a lot of irony she became a lot like illidan. Jarod, Tyrande, Malfurion and others kills the more Loalist of the new warden and Maiev flee. Tyrande put in charge Jarod of the new warden and his first task is to track down Maiev, ironic.

During World of Warcraft Cataclism: We learn that in Hijal we have a new “branch” of warden that protect the land and Fandral. They call themself “the shadow Warden”.

During “the tomb of Sargeras”: we know that Maiev is fine with a lot of Wardens and they introduce the “Vault of warden”. So they retcon Wolfheart. Because Maiev is fine and the alliance nor the elf are not mad with her.

During “illidan” novel: They rewrite all the warcraft3/TBC thing: now Maiev have some unit still with them (4-5 warden and a druid). Because they are in small number search for help from the local in Outland for years. Akama want to wait so Maiev when she try to see wat illidan is doing fall in an ambush, all the wardens are killed and only her is taken. Akama free her and the rest is history.

During World of Warcraft legion: they screw up again. Jarod is actually searching for Maiev (like in Wolfheart) but he didn’t say that he lead the wardens. We find Maiev and all is fine. no one is mad with her. During the initial quest from the demon hunters. You come back from mardum and illidan is taken (Maiev have with her some wardens during the Cutescene so WTF IS HAPPENING BLIZZARD!) she chain you and the rest of the demon hunters and put you into the vault. She free you only because she need help against the legion. During the final patch of legion she even made some jokes like a old married couple with illidan.

During World of Warcraft BFA: Maiev is the Reasonable one with Tyrande(Tyrande is mad and want vengeance and Maiev is worried about her…Maiev…worried about Tyrande…yeah). She made a nostalgic Discussion with The Hundead Warden like she care about them and the hundead warden blame her for “let them dealing for years them she’s gone”. So the warden of Darnassus/Hijal don’t know a thing about the vault in the broken island or blizzard just stop to patching plot holes because reason.


Pretty much the best reason to ignore current canon and just retell what was already in the original game, no changes. There have been so many inconsistencies and retcons over the years that there is no point modernizing the lore; it would fix nothing. They would just ignore Reforged and change the lore again in the upcoming years anyways, just like they already ignore WC3 lore for the most part.


On this topic, I also really hope. The indicated there is easy to correct, and it will look much better. But he didn’t ask about that. On the contrary, are there any retcons of Warcraft 3 events that are terrible and you don’t want to see in Reforged?

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A lot less people remember the fall of Lorderon. Only by Cinematic.
A lot more people can say almost word-to-word repeat an iconic speach before the Culling.
For most of the people Stratholme is the first step into Darkness for a Young Prince.A Begining of his way to become a DK and then Lich King.
This event is so iconic that has his own big part in the Chronicles, It’s own important Time-Travel Quest in WoW,it’s own spotlight in BfA

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There aren’t going to be any major lore changes, but even the most basic aesthetic changes to units and heroes has already done some damage.

The biggest ones for me are Malfurion with wings matching his WoW look and Grom missing his full jaw tattoos. These break their depictions in the cinematics, and have further lore implications such as Garrosh having a full black jaw to honor of his father and Warsong heritage. It loses some depth and meaning to their designs by using the Warlords of Draenor look for Grom.


The joke is, the classic campaign will be a time capsule. The discussion whas all the time, that the reforged campaign should be just the classic campaign with high res textures.

The joke is, the classic campaign with Reforged graphics already exists - on YouTube you can see all the missions. I don’t know if there is an opportunity to download and play them, because I didn’t look, but if not now, then it will definitely be right after the game’s release. Exactly what the people who write “WOW IS TRASH” want - a completely old campaign with old voice acting and old cutscenes.

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  • Darkspear Trolls’ birth quote: “Vengeance for Zul’jin!”
  • Darkspear Trolls with the Blackrock Clan
  • Gartihos’ Forces not having Chaplains or Silver Hand Priests (well this one is more on gameplay but I wish they had them)
  • Blackrock Clan having Far Seers
  • Not showing the Gilneas Gate
  • Not showing Ogres in Outland
  • Not showing the Alliance Expedition in Outland
  • Northrend having Ogres for some reason
  • Stratholme in WC2 literally had the largest harbor of Lordaeron (bigger than Tyr’s Hand I think), just give it back.
  • Nothing else, I like the Tomb of Sargeras, Dalaran, and Quel’thalas retcons better

I’m half and half on this, I agree that we better not put in the retcons, but it doesn’t hurt to replace some generic enemy heroes with relevant characters (or at least the pre-WC2 characters)

That said, I wish:

  • Replace the generic Archmages in Dalaran with Modera, Dalar Dawnweaver, Drenden, Rhonin, Ansirem Runeweaver, Karlain, and Vereesa Windrunner
  • Replace the Far Seers with WC2 Death Knights
  • Replace the generic Chaos Blademasters with Zuluhed the Whacked, Teron Gorefiend, Kar’gath Bladefist, Vorpil, and Mogor
  • Replace the generic undead heroes in River Arevass with Isiden Perenolde, and Death Knight versions of Jubei’thos, and Lich versions of Thok’feroth and Mazrigos
  • Add Karamyn Langston as a boss in the orc tutorial
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I think that hurts things even more considering all those characters you mention are meant to be killed, and we know some of them aren’t killed in the timeline of WC3 by our characters.

The less connections, the better. Rend and Maim at the Black Citadel was bad enough.

Agreed with all of these.

What’s the point of this? I’m not entirely sure what this is and I don’t care. It obviously holds no significance to the events of WC3. How is it’s absence breaking any lore?

Makes a kind of sense. They are native to Draenor after all. It doesn’t make sense that there are kodos in Outland though.

Not sure what the point of this would be. What role would they play? The purist in me that ignores WoW lore says to leave them out. It’s been two decades since the end of WC2 at this point. The expedition was stranded on a doomed world that tore itself apart. It’s reasonable to assume that either (a) they perished during or shortly after this cataclysmic event, or (b) if they did survive, they simply never crossed paths with any of the WC3 heroes.

Not sure what the problem here is. Again, it’s been two decades since the end of WC2. The ogres abandoned the Horde and were scattered throughout the lands. It’s not like there’s an insurmountable obstacle barring ogres from reaching Northrend at some point during the previous two decades, since apparently armies are stupidly capable of traversing large distances over the course of a few days or even hours. It only took Arthas and company a month to make it to Northrend. The ogres seem like a hardy, capable, and reasonably intelligent species; they could make it anywhere. I mean, there are Stonemaul ogres in Kalimdor for crying out loud!

Good job, nobody will play and there will never be another Warcraft RTS.

That’s the result. That’s the future. Supply and demand. Deal with it.