They’re just called Meat Wagons, I believe.
Also I love seeing the “View 1 Hidden Reply” bar and knowing that Kelliste person said something stupid. 
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There was a dedicated class dev for the first 2 expansions. This new thing of not having anyone dedicated to this stuff doesn’t seem to work very well, as we saw during alpha and beta of Dragonflight, at least 1 of the devs left Blizzard and there was no one to pick up their work until the expansion launched and patches started coming out. They just pick someone to do something, wait for them to research and get caught up on how the class works and where their designs should go, and then if by then or halfway through the design phase, that dev quits or gets pulled off for some reason, the class is screwed for many months sometimes years until they get someone else assigned. It takes too long.
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I also get that one. 
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This line hits so hard. Imagine if it was removed and replaced with a diseaae system… maybe one day.
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SO FROST DK REWORK HAS FINALLY BEEN ANNOUNCED!!!
not really.
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Are you just spamming some version of this everywhere on these forums?
Everyone here already understands that DKs need a rework with Frost needing a larger one. Even non-DK threads & announcements have people saying DKs need work. Blizzard is 100% aware of the community’s perception.
Spamming this isn’t going to speed up any updates.
They just ignored the spec for several years ay?
edit:
Even with the new talent trees, which the vast majority of them have been excellent, the Frost DK one is mostly… 2 points to gain 5% or 10% of a thing or… spend a point to do 5% more of a thing.
I feel even if they are “aware” the community should just be loud.
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People asked for some variant of “Make Obliterate scale with mastery”. 1, 2, 3, 4
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People asked for Obliterate to do more (mostly just damage). 1, 2
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People said they have “no real issues just swap cleaving somewhere else”. 1, 2
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People asked for Soul Reaper to proc KM during Obliteration. 1,
Most of these are recent feedback (within the past 2-3 years).
Then we have this gem of a post that people flooded to agree with, only for most people that posted to backtrack on how good the changes actually were months later.
And this is only what I felt like digging up. I didn’t care to spend the time and search out:
- Tuning Breath duration lower (10.0.7, 10.0.0 Beta feedback that’s lost to time)
- Giving 2h easy access to Razorice (no CD GA / Avalanche change; 10.0)
- Making MoTFW baseline (10.0.7)
- Making KM/Frostreaper baseline (10.0.7)
- Squashing down the filler talents so there’s more talent points for later tree passives (10.0.7)
- Moving HoW & 2nd ERW charge for Obliteration (10.0.0 Beta feedback that’s lost to time)
And I want to make it clear, I’m not calling out anyone that I’m quoting & referencing above. I’m just using their feedback to show that no, the spec “hasn’t been ignored for several years” and that Blizzard has been actively implementing player feedback into the spec, especially commonly asked for feedback.
Because the DK trees (along with Monks & Hunters) hasn’t received a real 2nd iteration like the rest of the classes have since launch. And I very much understand that it’s frustrating, but posting in multiple threads about it is just spamming and not very useful, even if it is “being loud”.
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Taking something I said like 2 years ago as if I haven’t since changed my mind. Also I’d say anything I’ve said hasn’t been implemented. Or at least not in the context it was proposed in.
You’re taking it personally and you shouldn’t.
I’m sure just about everyone I referenced would say something similar to “that was X years ago things are different now”, and to make this 100% clear, I am not saying anyone I quoted is the reason for the current state of Frost, just that people on these forums - me included - praised some implemented changes, that were commonly requested, that have ultimately made the spec worse than better.
Not a blame game, just using the posts
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People just dont want to have any responsibility. People made these posts, those posts directly changed the spec (for Frost) and they dont like it and since they dont like it they act as if they werent listened to though the proof has just been slapped on the table.
Ill say it, the people quoted played a major part in this version of Frost that they dont like. People dont like the reality that happened and are trying to say no changes happened, no one was listened to, the people making these suggestions while shutting others down have no responsibility in the outcome and so on.
People even talked about how there were too many talents that made RW stronger and that was changed as well even though there were less talents impacting RW than there was for Obliterate.
These very forums had a helping hand in their own destruction.
Let’s see what was linked there.
People asked for some variant of “Make Obliterate scale with mastery”.
2 links are the same lvl 10 person. #3 is asking for something to help Frost Strike, #4 is about Obliterate scaling with mastery. It is not something people generally complain about that much, it’s the interaction between Obliterate and other abilities that feels bad.
As a side note, calls for Obliterate scaling with Mastery in some way are due to the BFA removal of the Thronebreaker artifact trait which was probably the first ever bandaid introduced to make mastery like do something for Obliterate.
People asked for Obliterate to do more (mostly just damage).
Both links actually fit the statement.
People said they have “no real issues just swap cleaving somewhere else”.
Let’s see the first post linked:
But best improvement that could be made to frost is just taking out/replacing death and decay reliance for cleave. It’s so clunky and flavorless, Pillar should just have cleave built in, or remorseless winter should be reworked to be the cleave mechanic, which would also fix RW’s problem of just being a thing you press when it’s off cooldown. They’re getting rid of mage rune, get rid of dnd for frost too lol.
That is a COMPLAINT. Not an endorsement of the DnD cleave.
Let’s see the second post linked:
“Press this button to activate cleave!” Sounds nice.
But wait what does it refer to?
Oh yes this:
Remorseless Winter should just be a modification of Death and Decay, like Defile. Anything that affects Death and Decay should affect it instead. Its the easiest solution. Death and Decay has never served any purpose for Frost DK (besides the very limited purpose of breaking stealth enemies), even in WotLK, because of Howling Blast.
Again, it is a complaint pointing towards a post which asks for the DnD cleave to be gone and baked into Remorseless Winter.
People support Obliterate cleaving in any form.
1 and 2 are endorsements, 3 is a complaint about the setup needed to cleave.
People asked for KM to stack (Fatal Fixation).
Nuance completely lost. 2 is a lengthy talent rework post where it’s part of a greater whole. 3 pitches it as a solution for Obliterate hitting like a wet noodle outside of KM and 4 pitches buffing Frost Strike damage first for better single target viability.
People asked for Soul Reaper to proc KM during Obliteration.
More nuance lost, this post asks for Soul Reaper to be completely redesigned and turned into a Runic Power Spender.
So yes, people asked for at least some of those changes, but half of those plus the extended list aren’t exactly that big of complaints now. Top complaints are that Obliterate sucks outside of Killing Machine (which is true and mentioned several times in the posts linked as well), the DnD cleave (all posts linked complain about it) and Obliterate overriding everything else in Pillar 90% of time making RP management non existent (never mentioned anywhere, unintended consequences of Pillar + 2stack KM which literally never got addressed by the devs ever in any way).
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Those comments were 100% in support of Obliterate cleaving through another ability. Saying “I like Frost I just wish Obliterate cleave was somewhere else” is 100% in line with
Ironic, especially since the statement was never “People asked for KM to stack for XYZ reason”, just that they asked it to stack. And every single one of those posts has the same idea, having KM stack twice.
Or are we pushing the goalpost and saying that implementing feedback only counts if they implement 100%?
Regardless, I was not, and still am not, about to spend hours digging through these forums to find the perfect, 100% posts to support everything. That is a complete waste of time and it’s not that big of a deal.
With that said, arguing “These posts aren’t 1:1 with what you wrote and therefore you’re misinterpreting them” is ridiculous and an actual loss of nuance. Yes, linking to a thread about a SR redesign doesn’t directly support
People asked for Soul Reaper to proc KM during Obliteration.
in any way; however, when people write on these threads and give those ideas, that still supports the statement.
Completely missing the point which again is
Fair and understandable, I did go a bit overboard mostly due to getting irked by Obliterate mastery scaling claims made elsewhere, and I apologise.
I would however want to add that while the suggestions exist and the spec was not 100% ignored for a while (didn’t disagree earlier and won’t now because I can’t), the implementation does feel very lackluster due to clearly unintended interactions (KM stacking interacting with Pillar → lengthy cycles where RP is just irrelevant and you only press Obliterate anyway).
Which is why I would rather see actual in depth changes to clean it all up over a round of bandaids.
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I think you misunderstood my intent. But you got what I mean or intended anyway.
That long list of “changes” just further highlights how Frost DK needs a rework, rather than just moving the the damage around between a bunch of outdated spells.
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Force every dev to play frost DK so they can experience how garbage their balancing is.
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MY FROST DK LOOKS SO SICK IN HIS MOG!!! I can’t wait to play him oneday.
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Imagine being a blizzard dev and seeing a spec massively underrepresented in pvp because it sucks and doing nothing about it all xpac.
I think the same will be said about next season, next xpac, and the xpac after that.
Just delete your FDK and forget the spec even exists because thats exactly what blizzard has done.
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I’m in hopes they’ll give Frost what was given to Retri. It’s really fun, flows well, got reach, doesn’t feel clunky, plenty of options, it’s rewarding, etc.
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