So now that Frost DK talents can be tinkered in wowhead, I thought I would check it out and theorize the changes. The most common complaint so far I have read is that there are a lot less talent points to go around and… Oh boy, I see the difference.
There are the good, the bad and the ugly with the changes. There are some changes better than others but I would have never thought that some aspects of the Frost DK tree would be a couple of step backwards.
Previously...
The Good
- You can allocate both Obliteration and Icecap. Taeznak stated that this would be too powerful. Considering other classes might have this kind of scope of changes to their talents (emphasis on might), we might as well eat this cake for now as damage tuning is currently ongoing and would be adjusted appropriately. Just no October 2020 nerfs please!
- Glacial Advance NO LONGER HAS A COOLDOWN. While it has been asked to remove the cooldown of this ability for many seasons at this point, the fact that the cooldown is being removed ALONGSIDE of being more accessible by being closer to the top of the tree is a very good thing. Same thing can be said about Frostscythe’s accessibility. This is a win for both DW and 2-handers.
- Avalanche applies Razorice. It is currently unknown if Rune of Razorice is required to be enchanted for Avalanche to apply because if so this is a win for 2-handers.
- Shattering Strikes returns as a build defining talent. This is a win for Dual-Wielders if they are using Rune of Razorice on main hand.
- More talent nodes are not really a bad thing.
- Unleashed Frenzy is now bearable to use.
- Inexorable Assault and Cold Heart no longer mutually exclusive.
- In a nutshell, more Razorice sources and options mean that there are a lot more interactive things you can do with your build. The difference between 2h and DW seem closer because of this.
The Bad
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The italicized words above have some caveats.
- While new talent nodes are not a bad thing, poor placement of it will cause a point distribution issues. Breath of Sindragosa branch has suffered from this. Icebreaker looks like a nice talent. Requiring it 2-points seems a bit harsh alongside of Avalanche being placed into 20+ range and Everfrost no longer a chokepoint node between Frostwyrm’s Fury and Invigorating Freeze. Requiring you to allocate more points into them to access FWF and Everfrost if a BoS user wants to keep them both. Ouch!
- While Unleashed Frenzy now works with any Runic Power, I find it odd that Frozen Pulse has been removed due to not offering any unique or interesting values as Frost and yet they kept this passive in a tree. A 3% Strength Increase maintenance buff sounds just as dull as Frozen Pulse and it really doesn’t help that it is a chokepoint node to the left side of the tree.
- If desired, you can allocate both Inexorable Assault and Cold Heart. I’m just not sure if that’s worth 2 talent points and make the tree a bit more cluttered. Both passives aren’t as powerful as Obliteration+Icecap combo as they don’t inherently synergize with each other.
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You are required to allocate Cold Heart to get a second charge of Empower Rune Weapon. A simple pathing may solve this problem by making Frostwhelp’s Indignation also a prerequisite, but the IA and CH nodes are reference back into the caveat explained in the previous bullet.
The Ugly
- Too many 2 point nodes! Even Taeznak said this and I agree wholeheartedly. The tree feels a lot more fragmented before.
- MotFW is not only still in the tree but also in a 20+ zone. At minimum a Frost DK can 2H with MotFW went from Level 33 to Level 51! Not only that, it also cost one of the modes in a 20+ node zone which we already got taxed once but twice thanks to the two new nodes: Shattering Strikes and Avalanche. If you allocate both, that’d be three.
- Runic Command. There is no benefit of increasing your maximum runic power, a resource we Frost DK constantly use and never the bulk at once like Bonestorm, will be chosen over a natural damage increase. I tried using the Slab Avalanche idea to remedy this but that will never happen. Runic Command in the current state is not worth a talent point and especially two.
The Feedback
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/en/wow/t/feedback-death-knights/1279518/156
The picture above says it all along with praises, gripes and grievances listed above.
Feel free to laugh at Runic Command at its inception.
What I would Do
So checking in with my previous Frost DK tree with adjustments, THIS would be my current tree with green dots requiring points, green nodes are completely new abilities and yellow nodes are return of existing abilities in altered form. Keep in mind that this is just for fun and it would be REALLY nice if some of the things are taken from my ideas.
This is my updated Frost DK Talent tree with each numbered nodes doing various proposed effects.
<8 Points
1-1: Frost Strike. Unchanged.
2-1: Obliterate. Unchanged.
2-2: Howling Blast. Unchanged.
3-1: Killing Machine. Unchanged.
???: MotFW vs ToT. This one is gonna have a different header in a second.
3-2: Rime. Unchanged
The Fundamental Improvement Row
4-1: Improved Killing Machine. Name reverted from Frostreaper. Killing Machine also causes your next Obliterate to deal Frost Damage.
4-2: Improved Obliterate. Moved from 5-1. Effect unchanged.
4-3: Improved Frost Strike. Moved from 4-2. Merged with Runic Command. So not only you gain 10% Frost Strike Damage increase but you also gain 10 (Up from 5) Maximum Runic Power per rank.
4-4: Improved Rime. Transposed with Remorseless Winter. Now a 1 point node with a 150% damage increase to Howling Blast.
>8 && <20 Points
5-1: Murderous Efficiency. Moved from 7-1. Effect unchanged.
5-2: Glacial Advance. Unchanged. NO CD is VERY GOOD!
5-3: Pillar of Frost. Unchanged.
5-4: Frostscythe. Unchanged.
5-5: Remorseless Winter. Transposed with Improved Rime.
6-1: Frigid Executioner/Might of the Frozen Champion. Unchanged.
6-2: (NEW) Merciless Combat. Horn of Winter is now baseline that grants raid buff utility.
Merciless Combat
You deal 6% increased Frost Damage against targets below 35% Health. This effect is doubled for Obliterate, Frost Strike, Glacial Advance, Frostscythe and Howling Blast.
6-3: Frostreaper. Changed.
Frostreaper
Your Killing Machine can now have two stacks.
6-4: Enduring Strength. Unchanged.
6-5: Inexorable Assault/Cold Heart. Back to being a choice node from 7-2 and 6-6 respectively. Inexorable Assault can now apply Razorice. Cold Heart unchanged.
6-6: Frostwhelp’s Indignation. Unchanged.
6-7: Empower Rune Weapon. If you already know ERW, gain a charge. Moved from 7-4.
6-8: Biting Cold/Frozen Soul. Effects of both slightly adjusted.
Recall:
Biting Cold
Remorseless Winter damage is increased by 30%. The first time Remorseless Winter deals damage to 3 different enemies, you gain Rime.
Frozen Soul
When Remorseless Winter ends, You release a burst of (60%<Up from 40%> of Attack power) Frost damage, increased by 100% for each additional enemy you hit during Remorseless Winter.
6-9: Chill Streak. Increased bounce range from Enduring Chill.
7-1: Unleashed Frenzy. Moved from 4-1. Now gives 3% Strength per stack up from 1%.
7-2: (NEW) Chill of the Grave.
Chill of the Grave
Increases the range of Frost Strike, Frostscythe and Obliterate by 8 yards.
Increases Runic Power generation by 20%.
7-3: Eradicating Blows/Annihilating Blows.
Eradicating Blows
Your Obliterate increases the damage of your next Frost Strike by 20%. Stacks up to 2 times.
Annihilating Blows
Your Frost Strike increases the damage of your next Obliterate by 10%. Stacks up to 2 times.
7-4: Icecap. Unchanged. Already nerfed to 2 seconds. 3 would have been nice.
7-5: Accelerating Cold/Frozen Velocity
Accelerated Cold
While Empowered Rune Weapon is active, for each rune spent gives you 1% additional Haste, 2% Movement Speed and reduces the cooldown of Empower Rune Weapon by 3%.
Frozen Velocity
While Empowered Rune Weapon is active, you also gain additional 15% haste and 30% movement speed.
7-6: Gathering Storm. Unchanged.
7-7: Piercing Chill/Enduring Chill is now Cascading Chill/Explosive Chill.
Cascading Chill
Enemies that has not been damaged by Chill Streak will create another Chill Streak that bounces to a different target.
Explosive Chill
Chill Streak can now bounce off the Death Knight with pulsing Frost, dealing damage to all enemies nearby equal to its damage.
>20 Points
8-1: Snow Avalanche. Renamed from Avalanche. Still applies Razorice. Moved from 8-4.
8-2: Bonegrinder. Unchanged.
8-3: (NEW) Thronebreaker
Thronebreaker
Your Obliterate and Frostscythe applies an additional stack of Razorice. If used with Killing Machine, it applies an additional stack.
8-4: Shattering Strikes. Moved from 8-3. Unchanged.
8-5: (NEW) Hypothermia
Hypothermia
Whenever your Frost Fever grants you Runic Power, it also deals Frost Damage that also apply Razorice.
8-6: Icebreaker. Unchanged.
8-7: Everfrost. Unchanged.
9-1: (NEW) Slab Avalanche.
Slab Avalanche (3 Minute Cooldown)
Spends all your Runic Power to call down a giant chunk of ice to your target, dealing Frost Damage in the area.
The damage and area is increased based on the amount of Runic Power spent as well as the target’s missing health. Secondary targets in an area suffer the damage modifier based on the original target.
9-2: Cold-Blooded Rage. Now costs 1 point. Chance normalized to 15% from Frost Strike critical hits granting Killing Machine.
9-3: Frostwyrm’s Fury. Unchanged.
9-4: Invigorating Freeze. Now cost 1 point. Chance normalized to 10% from Frost Fever critical hits for it to flare.
9-5: (NEW) Death’s Due.
Death’s Due (Replaces Death and Decay)
Corrupts the target ground, causing [(3.6036% of Attack power) * 11] Shadowfrost damage over 10 sec to targets within the area.
Enemies damaged by this deal 1% reduced damage to you, up to a maximum of 8% and their power is transferred to you as an equal amount of Strength.
10-1: (NEW) Hypothermic Presence Runic Chills
Hypothermic Presence
You have 100% MORE Maximum Runic Power.
You generate 100% MORE Runic Power.
Your Runic Power costs are doubled.
Runic Empowerment is 33% LESS effective.
All of these are multipliers to increased maximum RP, RP generation, RP Costs AND RE effectiveness.
Runic Chills
Each Razorice applied reduces the cooldown of Slab Avalanche by 1 second.
10-2: Obliteration. Unchanged.
10-3: Absolute Zero. Unchanged.
10-4: Breath of Sindragosa. Unchanged.
10-5: (NEW) Withered Ground/Rampant Transference. Added.
Withered Ground
Increases the damage and area of effect of Death’s Due by 100%. The area of effect of Death’s Due decreases to increase the damage instead for each damaging tick by 10%.
Rampant Transference
Increases the strength gained from Death’s Due by additional 1% and lasts 2 seconds longer. You also generate additional Runic Power equal to the amount of total strength acquired from Death’s Due.
THIRD VERSION DONE!
2H VS DW
So the ??? Node above means that if there is a node that decides between 2H or DW, it should be at the place where it is most accessible. Because the fact that a Frost DK can practically wield 2-Handed and do well starting from Level 51 may not be necessarily a good thing.
Either MotFW should be baseline or ToT returns as a talent for DW users. Personally, I would prefer them to be baseline since we have good sources of Razorice Application as well as scaling difference comes ever closer.
What Needs to Happen
There needs to be a communication of what direction is Might of the Frozen Waste talent going along with communication about a lot of pointless talent point taxation with constrained node pathing. Because while DW and 2H have closer in terms of scaling, having that one talent dedicated for a weapon choice feels bad and a talent point is precious.
Like I wish that both 2H and DW passives are baseline and let the players decide which weapon they’ll use from the start. They can make KM not guaranteed off of AA crit anymore with this change and work like SL MotFW. I just want the tree a bit more cohesive.
What do you guys think though? Do you think MotFW should stay as a talent? Do you think there should be a node for DW as well? Do you think they both should be passive baselines? I know I would think so!
The TL;DR is… Well… Just read each section. You just might like it. There are headers for a reason!
UPDATE: Replaced Hypothermic Presence with Runic Chills.
