222 Role Lock "FiXeS nOtHiNg"?

My 1st opinions on role que beta below.

Just my responses to some common arguments against role que. :slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face::no_mouth:

“222 FiXeS nOtHinG”

  • lol

“uSe LFG”

  • No. I want to solo Q (until maybe guilds). it takes too long to make teams, people leave after losses, each team has a dictator, takes too long to find games. Why should we be punished with all these hurdles in pursuit of balanced competitive games?. Some of my most enjoyable games have came from LFG in a 222 BUT it takes way too long. Many of us can only hop on for a bit now and again and dont want to deal with being interviewed to see if we’re illegible for the group u joined. (“Kick him, hes a hammond main”) for example

“It WoNt FiX ToXiCiTy”

  • Okay. Thats not what its supposed to fix

“DPS pLaYeRs WiLL SuFFeR”

  • The main reason most of us want 222 in the 1st place is because too many dps players would rather lose than switch to another role to benefit the team. These games have become more and more of a regular occurrence and are constantly negatively impacting the experience of tanks/supports and just general team players. 3 years is way too long to have not learnt at least 1/2 heroes in each role for comp imo.
  • Blizzard have finally realized that this selfish mentality cant be fixed so they have to work around it. 222 role que is the 1st step. I personally think the que times are being exaggerated but we’ll see. (More incentives to heal and tank would help) jeff has also stated that they would work on an encouragement system to get more people on tanks and supports

“iT wOnT mAkE bEttEr BaLaNcInG”

  • It will stop oppressive tank/support dominant comps from forming and make sure at least 2 DPS are always viable. Trying to stop goats resulted in making heroes like dva, zarya, zen, lucio, brigitte(lol) less effective outside of it which is bad for the overall state of the game. They also made Reaper and Mei more oppressive in lower ranks in attempt of countering goats. With 222 they can buff tanks and supports without worry of them stacking up and becoming problematic. (Also makes them more playable/fun if they receive buffs)

“pEoPle WiLL jUsT ThRoW oN SuPpOrT/tAnK”

  • This would just be proof of how immature and weird people in this community can be. Report them so they get banned. Make bans require less total reports but only ban for the role they are being reported within maybe. Throwers are 1 of the biggest problems for overwatch atm

“It hUrTs fLeX pLaYeRs”

  • Some flex players may have good intentions but in my experience, most are usually just a hindrance when switching across roles mid game. It CAN be effective but also result in a loss (i see this alot) because many times i see main tanks/support switch to dps out of frustration and NEVER do i see a dps switch to cover the massive gap left in the team (no shield or heals). Its a flawed concept due to selfishness.

  • Role Based SR massively decreases the need for flexing across roles because every1 is at the SR they deserve to be at for each roles. Flexing within roles is JUST as/ if not more important. The game is more about counter picking than ever and heroes like doomfist, genji, pharah, tracer, wrecking ball, dva etc can ALL be countered/ denied value across ALL 3 roles.

“222 wOnT mAkE u RaNk Up”

  • Ok, I personally rank up just fine without it. Sadly i see a lot of my wins/losses determined by which team had the worst comp coming out of spawn instead of which team was better. I think that’s a shame for a competitive game and it sucks how big the difference between average ranked and high level play is right now. Structure is clearly needed.

“iT KiLLs cReAtIvItY”

  • 12 months of GOATs isnt very creative. Multi dps comps aren’t very creative. Multi support comps are fun but not effective in a competitive enviroment. The room for creativity is still massive in a 222 format with the increased probability of all 3 roles synergising together. Yes, creativity is great but freedom to pick ANYTHING is coming at the price of awful one sided games way too often. Structure is whats needed.

“TaNks AnD HeALeRs aRe bOriNg”

  • if you are ignorant or only like shooting things then maybe. I personally get plenty of enjoyment from the many unique plays u can pull of as a tank/healer, especially the team oriented ones.(saving team mates with cooldowns/ults, using utility to deny enemy value, enabling team mates etc.)

  • The enjoyment of tanks and healers are also very dependant on eachother so they hopefully will be more enjoyable in a 222 by default. Even if u do find them boring, they are NECESSARY (& have as much carry potential as DPS btw). You should play whats necessary to meet win conditions in a competitive game mode.(or stay in quickplay). More often than not, 4-5 dps wont be a win.

“YoU WiLL sTiLL gEt 2 Off TaNkS/suPpOrTs”

  • Its not as big a problem as made out to be as i explain here. I DO want 2-2-2 Its just another example of “it wont fix everything”. Its not supposed to fix everything, its supposed to improve alot though. Maybe the hero selection screen could be categorised better to educate people to what may be needed. (Main tank, off tank, hitscans, projectiles, utility, main healer, off healer)? If you do get 2 off tanks then perhaps play more mobile DPS/supports so u aren’t reliant on a shield.

“ThErEs NoT eNoUgH TaNkS/SuPpOrTs”

  • Theres plenty of supports that ALL offer very unique and diverse kits that can enable your tanks and dps. More tanks are needed but i still believe that its a bad excuse to not play them in ranked considering its an extremely strong role (especially with 2 supports guarenteed). 1 more shield based main tank and 2 more off tanks would make things alot better imo.

“iT wILL jUsT bE mIrrOr DiVe”

  • Possibly for the top 1% but highly unlikely for the rest of the playerbase. Playing dive into heroes like reaper, mei, hanzo, sombra, hog, orisa, brigitte is gonna be a struggle imo. Its much easier countered nowadays and cant see much mirror comps considering hammond can replace winston. Doomfist and sombra can replace genji, tracer and the supports are all viable atm. I personally believe comps like bunker, double sniper, brawler, doom/sombra etc can all be equally as viable for most ranks with a couple hero changes here and there.

“iT wILL jUsT bE mIrrOr BuNkEr”

  • Hopefully Rein/winston buffs & the addition of new tank brings Orisa back in line so theres abit more diversity. No paticular main tank should ever be a must pick imo.

  • Rein/lucio/zarya could all see buffs once GOATs is unplayable and winston could also do with buffs to help compete with hammond/make Dva more viable again. Also, Mirror comps are only a thing for the top players (GM above)

“4-1-1 wOuLd bE bEttEr”

  • Absolutely not lol. Catering to ignorance & selfishness instead of pushing for teamwork and synergy is a massive no imo. 222 is about catering to people who want more structure & team oriented gameplay whilst also keeping the selfish people happy by allowing them to play their favorite role without hindering the comp as bad as the current system does. Its a chore for the tank and support in a 4-1-1 (and even 3dps comps without teamwork). SO MANY synergies down the drain & creativity would be a joke. Mercy babysitting a Hammond/Orisa and 4 random DPS in a glorified team deathmatch is dumb.

“It WiLL kiLL tHe GaMe”

  • Its delusional to think the games not already dying. The number of people in ranked that actually give a damn about winning is declining constantly whilst quickplay has been a joke since before i can remember. The game is 1 of the best ive ever played competitively but sadly in its current state i rarely experience these good competitive games anymore.

Jeff quotes on 222

  • “We love this idea”

  • “i think the playerbase has evolved to the point where that is the accepted way to play the game”

  • “Overwatch is a team game, it was designed from the ground up to be a team game”

  • “Games designed around team compositions, winning and losing as a team”

  • “I think its a great idea and can go on at length to why overwatch can and will be better with a role que that locks people to a 2 2 2 comp”

  • “overwatch would just be better”

  • “Better off with a system that forces a better team comp.”

  • “would make much better matches”

Most anti-222 comments:

  • “222 is pointless”

  • “222 will fix nothing”

anti 222 comments ive seen in threads:

  • “It litteraly won’t fix anything”

  • “half the people who complain about not being able to play in a 2-2-2 in games are people who are too toxic to make enough friends in normal comp”

  • “Role lock is what happens when people don’t want others to have fun . And by introducing it, they are caving to the 1% who use the forums. Mayhaps the forums should be shut down so a bunch of plat scrubs don’t ruin the game for the 99% who don’t. most of the folks that I see supporting 2-2-2 seem to have a narrow viewpoint(the irony is soooo strong) and have trollish BTags” referring to my btag lol

Edit; there’s still so much ignorance and narrow-mindedness surrounding a locked 222 from people who dont want it. Im done replying to people who offer no valid/ constructive argument against it (there’s ALOT of you) and instead posting them above cus they amuse me

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But it will ruin my creative 5 dps comps! Oh no no, we can’t have that!

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the people who will throw, will throw anyway.

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Got one for you:

Role lock will hurt and hinder stacks, full and partial.

Your move atheists

As long as its for comp only

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Interestingly, I think some DPS players are DPS players because Tank/Support feels terrible to play outside of 2/2/2 or Multitank comps. 4 DPS + 1 tank + 1 healer, well, the healer and tank are going to have a bad time. But if you always had 2 tanks and 2 healers, then they don’t feel nearly as bad to pay. Also, if you are Rein against 5 DPS then your shield melts like butter, but 2 DPS and it feels strong again.

I think the change will affect which characters people enjoy and some of those DPS players will play more tank/healer because it won’t be as much of a chore.

Do flex players even exist? I mean, yes but in what quantity? And when you flex, are you really the same skill at each role? Wouldn’t role based SR be good for everyone?

Ey… not really. And not in a bad way. What increases creativity is hero bans!!! But do people want that? I mean, it would increase creativity.

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Wouldn’t be good to have the game balanced for 222 and then not have it in QP, where Im sure most new heroes play. I honestly think QP needs 222 the most.

8 Likes

personally im against 222 lock outside of owl

in those cases where you may need 3 dps for excess shield break

or the occasional goats

and sometimes even 411 with ball as your solo tank

it hinders the ability of 6 stacks or teams with good cooperation and coordination to flex around to whats needed in the situation

the only thing i see 222 fixing is those somewhat rare 4 dps instalocks (and when i first thought about it, this is what made me dislike the idea. i used to fully support 222 lock but then realized there arent too many pros)

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I mean… This is a strawman and a half. However, just one thing stuck out to me while I was skimming through this… You think DPS mains should learn half the tanks and supports by default? Ninja, wut?

Forced 222 is going to be the opposite of that. I, personally, am going to one trick Baptiste because I do not really want to be bothered learning boring heroes. I might dabble with Zen because I have his MVP skin. Idk.

On the tank end, eh, maybe Dva. Hog if he ever gets a skin that works for me.

There is no way I am going even close to half.

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There will be plenty of space to flex into creative comps unlocked on arcade.

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Where did i state u should learn half the tanks and supports? I said 1 or 2.

Also why are you basing your hero choices on skins you have for them in a competitive playlist? Very strange.

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nice post op but you are preaching to the converted. the people opposed, well, i doubt their literacy.

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Sounds like half instead of 1 or 2. Just edit maybe…

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Rofl. Oh, I see. It is because you wrote it as 1/2. K. Crisis averted.

I have to feel like a bad mutha if I want to play the hero. I am not going to play some nursery rhymes tank or motherly support. And sometimes skins are the only way to change that. You can turn Mercy into a devil or witch which is sick.

In the case of Hog, I like his skins. But I just do not “feel” good when I am playing him.

As for competitive. Whatever. I can climb to platinum with whoever I want because I am relatively good at the game. In fact, it is sort of weird that I can use characters I suck at in platinum to decent effectiveness… However, I cannot seem to consistently break diamond with my amazing Ashe.

#rigged

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My bad😳 …

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This argument is conflicting.
You dont want to believe that 4-1-1 can be work together and have good synergy.
2-2-2 can be lazy setup, that no one think about teamwork, at least its great for Solo Q, since they are random players and arent communicate well.
Both setups can be considered “selfish mentality”, too.

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Make them fun, and don’t limit me to a roster of 7 heroes of which i only like 2 characters. Making me wait 20+ minutes unless i play tank/support isn’t going to change the fact that most of them are excruciatingly boring and frustrating to play. I’m not selfish for avoiding a miserable experience.

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4-1-1 work together only when they are coordinated to surround the enemy, causing distractions, and/or damage focus. Radom solo queuers won’t make it happen that easy specially with no communication.
But generally DPS heroes don’t offer utility to the team, they don’t offer nothing to each other than killing the enemy. It’s risky.

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People always find ways to self sabotage and ruin everything for themselves and everyone around them. Sadly people generally need to be forced to do things or they will act not only against their own self interest but also against everyone else. Obviously the current system in comp isn’t too great if everyone is complaining about it, as much as I don’t like the idea of having to lock everyone into roles it seems like a necessary thing if the goal is a consistent experience in competitive.

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It litteraly won’t fix anything, kills the spirit of the game and will continue to let several heroes be broken in their roles


All this and more for the low cost of giving a bunch of players drastically high que times and forcing people out of their comfort zone to which they could be reported for doing a role poorly.

4 Likes