Balancing to solve "Rein or Lose"

Summary: Buff barriers, Nerf AntiDive, Dive counters DoubleBarrier, and keep Tank Busters in check.

Makes it so Orisa and Sigma can compare to Rein in midtier ELOs.

Winston and D.va can get used in high tier ELOs.

  1. Brig, 200hp+50armor, and a bit more self-regen on Inspire
  2. ShieldBash
    • No Stun
    • 400hp, up from 200
    • 40 damage, up from 5
    • 10m range, you from 7m
    • 5sec cooldown, down from 6sec
  3. RepairPack
    • Blocked by enemy Barriers/Matrix
    • Heals 10% more, but at half the speed
  4. Baptiste, Regen Burst selfheal increased 20%
  5. Immortality Field
    • Cannot bypass 0.8sec cast time by throwing straight down
    • 0.2sec deploy time (not active until deployed)
  6. All Ranged Knockbacks reverted to 2018 style.
    • I.e. Lucio Boop, Whipshot, Accretion, Coach Gun, Pharah Blast, Junk Mine, Hog Ult etc
  7. Make Mei into a Tank
    • 325hp
    • 10sec wall
    • Can be healed in iceblock
  8. 900hp Orisa barrier, 8sec cooldown
  9. 1200hp Sigma barrier
  10. Accretion does knockback instead of stun
  11. Hanzo
    • StormArrow, 50 damage arrows, 3 arrows, 7sec cooldown
    • Lunge, 10m travel distance, 4sec cooldown
  12. McCree reverted back to 200hp
  13. Winston Ult cost reduced 15%
  14. D.va Ult cost reduced 15%
  15. Hammond health changed to 300hp, 200armor, instead of 500hp and 100armor.

And then there’s the backup options, assuming doublebarrier is still too strong.

Rein: 200hp, 200armor
Orisa: Less Fortify percentage
Sigma: Kinetic Grasp range reduced to 1m, down from 3m. 40% self-slowed when using the ability.

11 Likes

I don’t see how any of this relates to queue times or what’s broken about them in the first place

You can do other things while you wait in queue for whatever mode you’re looking to play, whether it’s deathmatch or custom games or YouTube or whatever you want

Honestly these all sound like bad balance changes, to me anyways :man_shrugging:

14 Likes

Well, you do have a point, perhaps I’ll make one that really kicks the queue time fixes into high gear. I.e. This blended with BlizzCon changes.

But ultimately what this change does is allow Sigma and Orisa to have equivalent barriers to Rein, without causing DoubleBarrier or some other highly durable compositions.

Which incidentally would be needed with stronger barriers, or with an 800hp Rein Barrier.
Since an 800BarrierHP Rein would get shredded by 700BarrierHP Sigma combined with a 600BarrierHP Orisa.

I like this a lot. :+1:

2 Likes

I like the brig and bap changes, but I don’t like the orisa and sigma changes. This seems like we’d be going back to shields being on the field constantly, and that was annoying and unfun. We have to strike a balance here.

Well that’s why the goal here was to make it so that if you use DoubleBarrier, your composition is very vulnerable to Dive (or just a zergrush of brawl)

Tbh, if that’s not enough, they could go with this Bap change, and make it so that excessively durable+slow comps would just get wiped out by GravDragon.

Where as fast compositions would kill faster than the time it takes to build up a Grav.

First it was limit one tank per shield… Rein zarya unstoppable…

now its allow double shield, but with counters

Really strong counters, to the point that DoubleBarrier exists only as a cheese comp.

Maybe a payload map specific comp.

Why are people always saying “MaKe mEi a TAnK”?

5 Likes

I really like the idea, but I don’t like close to 75% of the changes you want to do to fix it.

1 Like

Because the goal here is to avoid DoubleBarrier from having an AntiDive Peeler, and to avoid Rush being able to approximate “TripleTank”.

Moving Mei to the Tank role, even if she’s F tier as a Tank, solves that problem.

But more likely, this frees up Mei to get a lot of buffs. Eventually.
But I’d suggest starting out with the bare minimum buffs needed, so the community doesn’t flip out about “Mei is OP”.

Should be kinda obvious, given that Mei is the 5th most used DPS in GM right now, and that will probably go higher when OWL launches. Specifically because she can allow compositions to approximate “TripleTank”. That as a DPS she’s doomed to suck at every skill tier besides the top 2%. (Unless it’s not her meta, then she sucks at all skill tiers)

3 Likes

You should really just rally for even more limits to team building since your idea of a fix is to basically do that without literally doing that

Just cut out the middle man and be done with it

A 1 barriertank limit would work, but it would mess with queue times, and there’s not really a clean way to “trade” between who has the barrier.

Not to mention, it prevents your team from being SOL if you got an anchortank player that sucks, but won’t switch.

easy:

revert rein damage buff and bring orisa buffs live, with or without the cooldown nerf

As if Rein+Orisa isn’t a DoubleBarrier comp, that already existed before the Mei nerfs?

1 Like

rein/orisa was a thing but it was barely a big deal and was only played on select maps
i guess it’s hard to buff orisa without causing a resurgence of double shield but they haven’t even bothered much at all with bringing orisa back to relevance

the dive tanks themselves are fine though and i wouldn’t touch them

Pretty sure it was hard meta, considering Mei could just run at Sigma and he falls over.

It didn’t last that long though because of the Mei nerfs.

1 Like

no, rein/orisa was not meta even when mei was relevant

people actively ran orisa/sigma with and against mei even before the nerfs

You know I might have been misremembering. Regardless, the goal here is to avoid all high durability comps.

So same difference.

Her kit is already more Tank-like than half the current Tanks. Her existence in DPS causes problems with balancing Tanks since they have to account for the power of her kit when combined with other characters. That’s also why Ice Wall was mega nerfed despite not being a problem prior to enforced 2-2-2. In short Mei suffers and damage negating Tanks suffer as long as Mei is kept as a DPS character.

Funny enough she doesn’t even need a radical rework. It’s just… Drag and drop her into the Tank role. Maybe give her a funky passive to make up for the Cryofreeze thing and give her niche defenses, such as taking 20% less damage from beams and melee attacks (Call it Thick Coat). Also, they should make a 250HP/300HP tier for Tank type characters (smaller hurtboxes, faster paced Tanking that’s not Dive based). That’ll give more wiggle room for Tank designs so they don’t have to keep using DPS as a dumping ground for hybrid weirdoes.

1 Like