NOTE: Crossed out text = concerns were either addressed to completely fixed
NOTE: I moved all crossed out text to the 4th post in this thread for ease of reading.
Official BETA Testing Closed Forum Thread (only Beta Testers can post):
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-warlock-class-changes/490693
Official PTR Testing Forum (anyone can post):
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/c/in-development/shadowlands-pre-patch-ptr/251
Official Covenant Abilities (last update April 16):
- Scouring Tithe (Kyrian) - Deal Arcane damage instantly and additional Arcane damage over time. If the enemy dies while affected by Scouring Tithe, you generate additional Soul Shards. If they survive, Scouring Titheâs cooldown is refreshed.
- Impending Catastrophe (Venthyr) - Call forth a cloud of chaotic anima that travels to the target enemy, dealing Shadow damage to enemies within their path. When the anima reaches the target it explodes, inflicting a random Curse and dealing Shadow damage to all nearby enemies.
- Decimating Bolt (Necrolord) - Hurl a bolt of shadow magic at your target, dealing Shadow damage and increasing the damage of your next Incinerates, Drain Souls, or Shadow Bolts. Decimation Boltâs damage, and the bonus to Incinerate, Drain Soul, or Shadow Bolt both increase as your targetâs health decreases.
- Soul Rot (Night Fae) - Expend some of your health to wither away all life force from your current target and up to 3 additional targets nearby, causing them to suffer Nature damage over 8 seconds. Additionally, casting Drain Life will also hit any enemy affected by your Soul Rot .
Official Class Changes (last update April 7):
Datamined Changes (last update August 20)
Summary of Changes (last update July 15)
- Felguard Axe Toss given interrupt capacity on Stun-Immune mobs
- Fel Domination returned baseline, level 34 spell with a 3 min CD that reduces summoning cast time by 5.5 seconds, dev commentary â Summoning your pet shouldnât be always easy, but sometimes you need a new pet in a pinch.â
- Curse of Tongues returned as baseline
- Curse of Recklessness removed, will no longer be implemented
returned as baseline
- Curse of Weakness returned as baseline
- Curse of Exhaustion returned as baseline
- Doom
returned as baseline for Demonology only, talent Improved Doom option remains as well (which makes now baseline Doom into current live Doom) wasnât changed
- Demonic Circle returned as baseline
- The proposed new Talent Tongue Tied was scrapped entirely, replaced with Howl of Terror Talent being returned (1.5 sec cast, 40 sec CD)
- Dark Pact now scales with Spell Power more
- Dark Fury tweaked to make the area of effect greater for Shadowfury
Affliction changes:
- Unstable Affliction now lasts longer, can no longer stack, does not consume a Soul Shard, CAN ONLY BE CAST ON ONE TARGET (was one per target June 10 build, now June 17 build reverted), no longer amplified damage
- Shadow Embrace Talent is now baseline, Warlocks learn this ability at level 52
- Malefic Rapture causes periodic spells to tick faster
- New Talent: Sow the Seeds, additional two Seeds into nearby enemies
- Azerite Trait Sudden Onset (Agony starts at 4 stacks) added to Talent Writhe in Agony.
- Azerite Trait Inevitable Demise added as Talent to replace Death Bolt, Death Bolt is now a PVP Talent.
- Shadow Embrace Talent replaced with Dark Caller, passive reducing CD of Darkglare by 1 minute.
- Nightfall procs more with more Corruptions on more targets. The increase will not be linear, similar to how multitarget Agony doesnât linearly proc more Soul Shards.
Demonology changes:
Want To Buy Demonology Changes
- Call Dreadstacker Rank 2 at Level 54, reduces base cast time from 2 seconds to 1.5 seconds (0.5 second cast reduction), and the dogs now RUN to your target when you switch targets (travel time negligible now)
- Fel Firebolt Rank 2 (Wild Imps), âteaches your wild imps how to spend 20% less energy when casting fel fireboltâ, meaning theyâll stay around for longer in theory, which is important because of the changes to Demonic Consumption
- Summon Demonic Tyrant Rank 2 Level 52, BALEFUL INVOCATION MADE BASELINE, GENERATES 5 SHARDS UPON CAST
- Demonic Calling Talent reworked: Call Dreadstalkers becomes FREE on proc instead of 1 Soul Shard
- Demonic Consumption Talent reworked: power of the Tyrant/Commander now drains 15% of the life from all your demons available. This is important to note because of the Wild Imp energy change and also makes Vile Field and Grimoire: Felguard stronger since this may function like Legionâs Thalkielâs Consumption
- Power Siphon Talent reworked: the 2 demonic cores procâd cause Demonbolt an additional 30% damage
Destruction changes:
- Fire and Brimstone tweaked to generate 2 Soul Shard fragements for each additional enemy struck by the Warlockâs incinerate
- Havoc lasts 2 seconds longer
- Rain of Fire, Summon Infernal, Channel Demonfire, Shadowburn, and Soulfire all buffed
- Cataclysm damage reduced by 20% (200% to 180%)
- Grimoire of Supremacy Talent reworked to be Rain of Chaos Talent: while your initial infernal is active, every Soul Shard you spent has a 15% chance to summon an additional infernal that lasts 10 seconds
- Infernal Combustion Talent now consumes 7 seconds max of your immolate (up from 5)
- Roaring Blaze Talent reworked: now provides a 30% damage buff rather than a DoT
- Shadowburn regained execute buff clause (1 soul shard if the target dies within 5 seconds of cast too), BUT no longer generates 3 soul shard fragments, only has 1 charge and costs 1 shard.
- Soul Fire Talent reworked: generates 1 full soul shard, causes your next incinerate to become instant, cast time changed to 4 second cast with a 1 min CD
PVP changes:
- New PVP Talent: Amplify Curse, which amplifies curses with a secondary effect on the target.
- Death Bolt now a PVP Talent.
- New PVP Talent NYI Malignant Affliction: UA no longer limited to 1 target but deals 10% less damage, but if dispelled grants you 15% haste (not clear if stacking)
- Soulshatter reworked to grant a Soul Shard instead for each enemy hit
- Felguard Axe Toss given interrupt capacity on Stun-Immune mobs
- Fel Domination returned baseline, level 34 spell with a 3 min CD that reduces summoning cast time by 5.5 seconds, dev commentary â Summoning your pet shouldnât be always easy, but sometimes you need a new pet in a pinch.â
- Curse of Tongues returned as baseline
- Curse of Recklessness removed, will no longer be implemented
returned as baseline - Curse of Weakness returned as baseline
- Curse of Exhaustion returned as baseline
- Doom
returned as baseline for Demonology only, talent Improved Doom option remains as well (which makes now baseline Doom into current live Doom)wasnât changed - Demonic Circle returned as baseline
- The proposed new Talent Tongue Tied was scrapped entirely, replaced with Howl of Terror Talent being returned (1.5 sec cast, 40 sec CD)
- Dark Pact now scales with Spell Power more
- Dark Fury tweaked to make the area of effect greater for Shadowfury
Affliction changes:
- Unstable Affliction now lasts longer, can no longer stack, does not consume a Soul Shard, CAN ONLY BE CAST ON ONE TARGET (was one per target June 10 build, now June 17 build reverted), no longer amplified damage
- Shadow Embrace Talent is now baseline, Warlocks learn this ability at level 52
- Malefic Rapture causes periodic spells to tick faster
- New Talent: Sow the Seeds, additional two Seeds into nearby enemies
- Azerite Trait Sudden Onset (Agony starts at 4 stacks) added to Talent Writhe in Agony.
- Azerite Trait Inevitable Demise added as Talent to replace Death Bolt, Death Bolt is now a PVP Talent.
- Shadow Embrace Talent replaced with Dark Caller, passive reducing CD of Darkglare by 1 minute.
- Nightfall procs more with more Corruptions on more targets. The increase will not be linear, similar to how multitarget Agony doesnât linearly proc more Soul Shards.
Demonology changes:
Want To Buy Demonology Changes- Call Dreadstacker Rank 2 at Level 54, reduces base cast time from 2 seconds to 1.5 seconds (0.5 second cast reduction), and the dogs now RUN to your target when you switch targets (travel time negligible now)
- Fel Firebolt Rank 2 (Wild Imps), âteaches your wild imps how to spend 20% less energy when casting fel fireboltâ, meaning theyâll stay around for longer in theory, which is important because of the changes to Demonic Consumption
- Summon Demonic Tyrant Rank 2 Level 52, BALEFUL INVOCATION MADE BASELINE, GENERATES 5 SHARDS UPON CAST
- Demonic Calling Talent reworked: Call Dreadstalkers becomes FREE on proc instead of 1 Soul Shard
- Demonic Consumption Talent reworked: power of the Tyrant/Commander now drains 15% of the life from all your demons available. This is important to note because of the Wild Imp energy change and also makes Vile Field and Grimoire: Felguard stronger since this may function like Legionâs Thalkielâs Consumption
- Power Siphon Talent reworked: the 2 demonic cores procâd cause Demonbolt an additional 30% damage
Destruction changes:
- Fire and Brimstone tweaked to generate 2 Soul Shard fragements for each additional enemy struck by the Warlockâs incinerate
- Havoc lasts 2 seconds longer
- Rain of Fire, Summon Infernal, Channel Demonfire, Shadowburn, and Soulfire all buffed
- Cataclysm damage reduced by 20% (200% to 180%)
- Grimoire of Supremacy Talent reworked to be Rain of Chaos Talent: while your initial infernal is active, every Soul Shard you spent has a 15% chance to summon an additional infernal that lasts 10 seconds
- Infernal Combustion Talent now consumes 7 seconds max of your immolate (up from 5)
- Roaring Blaze Talent reworked: now provides a 30% damage buff rather than a DoT
- Shadowburn regained execute buff clause (1 soul shard if the target dies within 5 seconds of cast too), BUT no longer generates 3 soul shard fragments, only has 1 charge and costs 1 shard.
- Soul Fire Talent reworked: generates 1 full soul shard, causes your next incinerate to become instant, cast time changed to 4 second cast with a 1 min CD
PVP changes:
- New PVP Talent: Amplify Curse, which amplifies curses with a secondary effect on the target.
- Death Bolt now a PVP Talent.
- New PVP Talent NYI Malignant Affliction: UA no longer limited to 1 target but deals 10% less damage, but if dispelled grants you 15% haste (not clear if stacking)
- Soulshatter reworked to grant a Soul Shard instead for each enemy hit
Summary of Feedback (both wants and needs)
- Last Alpha Build taken into consideration: Build 35598, August 19
- Last content update to feedback: August 19
- Last wording edited: August 19
- Last subjects to be updated from last Beta Build date: All the things
- Last Alpha Build taken into consideration: Build 35598, August 19
- Last content update to feedback: August 19
- Last wording edited: August 19
- Last subjects to be updated from last Beta Build date: All the things
Sources of concepts:
- Council of Black Harvest Discord (Lock One Stop Shop)
- WoW Official Forums
- MMOC Forums
- Some Streamers/Guide-makers/Simcrafters on various Discords and Twitch stream (e.g. Council of Black Harvest Discord, folks like Kalamazi, Thdlock, as much as I have time for lol)
- Rarely but sometimes Twitter and Reddit
Felplagued's MMOC Compilation Thread:
Kalamazi's Alpha feedback Google Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Szn8PW_Pkb3ybnlpsdvsyzooxUcKdEm_mtuM6ViljFc/edit
Thdlock's Alpha feedback Google Docs
Demonology
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MXtru2Y3SFduIT_CzvRCQn7tXs3Us4jURm8CATar8vM/edit
Affliction:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oNiuaTCrF5yDLCCrvF0Fa7s7pRHf0qzoiz3VgCShmbM/edit
Destruction:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LM8_KgUWPxg8ltgtBTbDz5jkVmcTQvVTjhDuhndiG4c/edit
EU Warlock Forum Compilation Document, compiled by Thunrahion
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pxv5bLtj3Csu8E3gpxryjolzA6zFm_-b1xLWABr54aA/edit
WoWhead Demonology State on Shadowlands Alpha (July 14)
WoWhead Affliction State on Shadowlands Beta (July 31)
WoWhead Destruction State on Shadowlands Beta (August 5)
General PVE, PVP, Demons, etc.
- Talents arenât a free choice in any competitive PVE/PVP setting
Most of the time there is exactly one right answer per row, the rest being a guaranteed DPS loss. Only 2-3 possible feasible builds exist per spec.
Burning Rush, which comes at a health cost, being on the âdefensiveâ talent row does not make much sense.
Soul Conduit being on Level 45 Talents for Demonology but Level 50 Talents for Affliction and Destruction also doesnât make sense.
Grimoire of Sacrifice is incredibly useless. We understand the dimension of âWarlocks are a pet classâ, but the notion of sacrificing our demon for self empowerment perfectly fits into our class fantasy. As it stands, it is always the worst talent to pick in that row; please just revert it to an iteration where it was a flat DPS increase (for specific abilities or in general), or a version of that where itâs a flat intellect increase or something.
Feedback on first row of talents for Affliction (the SB vs Drain Soul dilemma) in the Affliction section below
- Corruption returning for all specs is irrelevant for Demonology and Destruction given the lack of interaction in rotation and its cast time for both.
We hope the devs are aware that it will not be used at all outside of Affliction. If the devs do not wish this then Corruption needs to become instant for all specs and interaction given for Demonology and Destruction. Suggestions include having corruption function like Cataclysm or Mists of Pandaria Doom/Bane of Doom where on tick or crit a Wild Imp would spawn; having a Wild Imp or random demon spawn would allow in the former for interaction with both mastery and Molten Core procs and in the latter for interaction with mastery. For Destruction some suggestions given are procâing Backdraft, or reduce Conflagrate recharge time.
- Ritual of Doom, yikes
For âflavorâ this has mixed reviews (we had this version of Ritual of Doom only Vanilla through Wrath ie 6 years, and we had CD or Talented Permanent Doomguard from Cata until BFA ie 8 years, but itâs an âiconicâ spell for Classic Era players)
It is not feasible for Mythic (time constraint, 1 hr CD, death, and if it does meaningful damage than the warlock losing control mid-fight is too risky), Raid (same), PVP (same), and cannot be used for soloâing content given it requires 5 people total.
The likely majority use for this spell as-is will be to grief low level players, and it only has meaningful interaction with Demonology via the Demon-health-based Demonic Consumption for Demonic Tyrant. It will not see much use during gameplay.
- 6 second Pet summon is a mistake
Increasing Demon summoning cast time to 6 seconds does not make sense given:
-
our demons remain extremely âsquishyâ due to a significant loss of damage mitigation/armor increases over the past few expansions, in particular for Felguard/Wrathguard and Voidwalker/Voidlord, and
-
unlike Hunters that have two ways to heal their pet (Feed Pet, which is instant for 50% of the petâs health with a 10 second CD, and Mend Pet that heals 25% over 10 seconds with a 10 second CD) our only way to heal our pet is Health Funnel that makes us lose health (sometimes significantly depending on how hard the demon is being hit that requires us to channel continuously). Historically also there was an expectation that warlocks could and should be able to switch demons depending on utility with a modicum of ease, ergo our lack of a baseline warlock interrupt.
-
The current end-game reality of Mythic+ in combination with our utility tied to our pets does not allow for this to be functional
If 6 seconds is to remain, then certain changes have to also come from a quality of life and toolkit perspective. A recommendation here is to reduce the summoning cast time for demons back down, and/or to increase our demonâs (or at least, the Felguard and Voidwalker) âtankinessâ back to a semblance of what it used to be. Alternatively, give us another ability (that is instant cast) to heal up our demon (sacrificing imps for health? âBlood Offeringâ or something).
Fel Domination has been unpruned as of June 10, so thank you, but a significant amount of the community (if not everyone) is in abject horror at the statement that âSummoning your demon shouldnât always be easyâ, given the current gaming reality of the speed/nature of Mythic+ where easy access to interrupt is a reality, the lack of DPS balance on our pets, as well as the fact our utility (unlike hunters) is substantially tied to our pet.
Regarding Fel Domination, a 3 minute CD is way too high for the same reasons weâve mentioned regarding the current nature of WoW, please reduce this CD to 1 min (1.5 minutes at least) with a removal of the Soul Shard cost for the summon, as well as making it instant. Alternatively, make Fel Domination more like MOPâs Demonic Rebirth, where on an internal 2 min CD the cast time and cost of your next demon summoned is reduced by 100%.
As it stands, comparing to other classes, to drive home the point:
-
Unholy DK pet summon is a 30 second CD with no resource cost and can heal via Death Coil which is part of the natural rotation
-
Hunters have a 6 second revive for 35 Focus, can heal via Mend Pet (10 second CD instant for 25%), Feed Pet (bag item for 50% heal, also 10 second CD), one pet family has an instant rez, or a heal, with their Call Pet not being 6 seconds.
-
Frost Mages still have a 1.5 sec cast for 3k mana
Warlocks have an especially short stick when compared to other pet classes, especially Hunters (not to mention lack of stables but thatâs probably a future dream). It doesnât make sense for only Warlock pet summons to be 6 seconds whereas Hunters only got 6 seconds for their revive because they have two separate abilities for it. A middle ground should be reached between Live and 6 seconds that balances the fact Warlocks DONâT have two separate buttons for Summon Demon and Revive Demon.
- Warlock Interrupt problems
Warlocks have been asking and needing for an interrupt for a while now. With the issue of 6 second pet resummon in the event of pet depth, this is exacerbated. Further still is the issue that Demonology by and large is âlockedâ into Felguard due to design reasons of Demonology that expect us to use him for all of WoWâs history.
With the Axe Toss stun-immune interrupt, it works like:
- If mob is stunnable but on full DR, Axe Toss interrupts.
- If mob is boss target and not stun immune, Axe Toss stuns.
- If mob is boss target and stun immune, Axe Toss interrupts.
The six solutions apparent to the community are:
- Give Warlocks an interrupt as a whole, on par perhaps with Axe Toss (ie 30 second CD) with a shorter counterspell duration.
- Give an interrupt to Axe Toss.
- Give an interrupt to Felguard.
- Give Axe Toss the ability to interrupt always when a spell is being cast.
- Give Demonology only, or even Warlocks as a whole âCall: Felhunterâ/Grimorie: Felhunter baseline.
- Give Demonology, the Master Summoner⢠Class, two pets as Beastmaster does, but in our case only one of each type of Demon is possible, and give us a âCommand Lesser Demonâ button.
- Rework Demonic Strength and Soul Strike to general demon talents.
Lots of possible solutions!
- PVP talents
Thereâs a lot of possible things to unprune to make up for the loss of Curses from PVP talents
Regarding Covenant Abilities
Impending Catastrophe is neither amplified by Summon Darkglare nor âsmart cursesâ (Curse of Tongues to casters, Curse of Weakness to melee), and thus does not interact with any of the specs in any unique way.
Scouring Tithe and Soul Rot both interact with Darkglare.
Scourging Tithe runs the risk of overcapping Soul Shards due to RNG.
At the moment Decimating Bolt is extremely strong and will be the go-to spell, especially given the way it interacts with Drain Soul ticks over Shadowbolt/Incinerate casts, thus making Affliction the likely go-to Warlock spec above the other two.
Regarding Affliction
- Drain Soul > Shadow Bolt, especially in Shadowlands
Make Drain Soul baseline as the filler, bake Shadow Bolt filler change into Nightfall (so it changes Drain Soul to Shadow Bolt), and add a talent (Malefic Grasp from Mists through Legion?) that is a single target soul shard spender drain, either doing âdouble tick during drainâ or âfaster tick during drainâ. This would solve the âgapâ in terms of single target spender for Affliction that we presume was supposed to be âSoul Wrackâ.
An alternate talent suggestion is replacing the Talent gap with something like Wrath of Consumption from Legion (x% damage increase per enemy killed for x seconds).
Drain Soul is especially strong given the strength of Decimating Bolt in how ticks interact with the buff.
Drain Soul also applied 3 stacks of Shadows Embrace over 3 seconds (1 stack per tick, full stacks in 1 cast) whereas shadowbolt takes anywhere 3 shadowbolt casts, so at least 4-5 seconds.
Drain Soulâs interaction with âshard snipingâ also makes it particularly strong.
- Inevitable Demise is too weak
Needs a buff probably but thatâs tuning. Allowing Shadows Embrace interaction with Drain Life would also be good.
- Sow the Seeds needs to be more functional
Suggestions here are varied. A flat damage buff would be good, but more interaction would be better, such as allowing Sow the Seeds to apply Corruption AND Agony. This would give a choice in playstyle between prioritizing multi-DOTâing for AOE versus taking Vile Taint for âmoreâ Malefic Raptures.
Itâs currently faster to simply multidot than to use Seed of Corruption in the majority of trash pull instances, so this ability simply isnât lucrative enough to make up for the âtimeâ. Perhaps shorten to the detonation time?
- Unstable Affliction needs to be able to be cast on multiple targets again
This was in a prior build that all the testers agreed was more fun and engaging and created a higher skill ceiling. Nobody understands why this universally agreed upon good change was reverted.
- Level 45 Talents
Grimoire of Sacrifice is useless, but a more Aff-specific solution than above would be to replace it with some version of Soul Swap, to allow you to switch target priorities during encounters.
With the loss of multi-DOT UA, Dark Caller feels particularly absurd given its simply a flat CD reduction. Itâs going to be the most taken ability given the strength in allowing us to use our CD Demon more anyways. Reverting the reversion to UA and allowing us to multi-dot-UA again would make this a uniquely strong choice for AOE/multitarget scenarios.
Haunt probably needs a damage increase buff to make it compete with Dark Caller if thereâs meant to be any sort of competitive or free choice in the matter.
- Level 50 Talents
Creeping Death makes playstyle more tedious since it isnât a constant DoT-tick âhasteâ buff but also shortens DoT duration, forcing us to reapply more regularly.
Dark Soul: Misery is simply too strong above the clunkiness of Creeping Death and the RNG inconsistency on Soul Conduit isnât engaging.
Regarding Demonology
- Summon Vilefiend should have no cast time, Demonic Tyrant should have no cast time
It makes no sense for Demonology, which is the slowest spec to set up, to also have one of its most powerful talents and its main CD demon have a cast time. Demonology is the only warlock spec with a CD cast time, and as far as we are aware as warlocks the only CLASS with primary DPS CD with a cast time. Why? Please make them instant, it would be a huge quality of life change.
- Nether Portal does not provide consistent damage, and is clunky
As it stands, how much damage you get from Nether Portal depends on how lucky you are in terms of demons you manage to summon.
This is further exacerbated by the fact we get 1 demon per shard spender we use, instead of 1 demon per shard spent. This forces us to always cast 1 Shadowbolt and 1-shard Hand of GulâDan back to back to get as many shard spenders out. Changing this to 1 demon per 1 shard spent allows us to negotiate and be smarter with shards and procs.
- Demo suffers uniquely from the lack of Warlock interrupt problem
The âstun immune interruptâ is a clunky solution since it means it doesnât interrupt on anything that isnât a boss. Please just give Felguard a Pummel or make Axe Toss always interrupt if a spell is being cast if you really donât want to give Warlocks Call: Felhunter baseline or equivalent or any of the other solutions (eg second utility demon, at least for Demonology).
- Grimoire: Felguard CD should be reduced
The CD was 1.5 minutes until 48 hours before BFA launched. Please let this be 1.5 minutes so we have our CDs line up instead of what weâre doing already with waiting 2 minutes for everything to be lined up anyway.
- Vile Fiend and Nether Portal demons and Inner Demons demons need to ârushâ to the target
This ârushâ capacity was added to our Call Dreadstalkers when target switching and itâd be a huge quality of life improvement for Demonology.
- Demonology is too slow
It really takes anywhere from 20 to 30+ seconds to line things up properly to use oneâs CDs in this spec. Baseline Baleful Invocation was good, but there has to be another way to make this spec faster. Would baseline Soul Conduit be that broken? Or increased Demonic Core proc changes for more shard generation? Or chance of Demonic Core with demon crits? Anything?
Destruction
- Roaring Blaze should affect Chaos Bolt in some capacity
It allows for greater rotation engagement and interaction, lack of interaction just feels strange from a design and gameplay perspective (since you want to keep it up).
- Soul Fire is clunky as hell
Having a spell uniquely designed for prepull alone just doesnât feel good, since youâre not âexpectedâ to cast it during the rest of your rotation. Having it only generate one soul shard even as a prepull-only spell also just feels extra tedious.
Suggestions here are to increase shards gained and to let Soul Fire be affected by Backdraft.
- Shadowburn should be baseline
It just feels weird in its current iteration where itâs not giving double shards upon kill nor a guaranteed execute DPS increase.
- Internal Combustion too dependent on haste levels
There needs to be interaction with some other stat, perhaps intellect. On Live itâs much stronger than on Beta due to haste scaling.
- Fire and Brimstone should be a toggle
Lack of a toggle doesnât seem particularly necessary, it just gives us the choice of situational control for our non-shard-spender abilities.
- Inferno would be stronger with a larger radius
- Rain of Chaos needs to be clearer
Can we get an explanation for how the âRNG Protectionâ works here? People are currently trying to mass-test to see if we can figure it out on our end but transparency would be appreciated so we can provide better feedback.
Currently on beta, each Infernal proc resets the CD on Rain of Chaos. We presume this is a bug.
- Grimoire of Sacrifice sucks, see General
- Level 50 Talents
Same as with Affliction, Soul Conduit just doesnât feel too engaging, perhaps a positive change would be to allow another Azerite Trait to be turned into a talent and scrap this?
Regarding the F Word (Fun)
This is where The Great Unpruning could do some cool fun not-gameplay affecting work.
- Demonbolt Green Fire animation? Will it ever come?
- Please also return Glyph of Wrathguardâs giving the Wrathguard two 2-handed weapons. I believe the reason it was removed long ago was the Wrathguard was literally attacking twice rather than once.
- Please give warlocks the ability to speak Demonic once more.
- Glyphs for old spell animations (e.g. Chaos Bolt dragon animation, Shadowbolt skull animation, etc)
- Let Dreadscar Rift Ritual of Doom be able to be soloâd or two-man please
Consider:
A copy of the Hunter Tame/Stable system, where either within the Dreadscar Rift (Class Order Hall, would breathe life into past content) and/or next to the Warlock Trainer in every major city, there would be a âGrimoireâ that functions like the Warlock stables.
Enslave Subjugate Demon becomes like Tame Beast. Enslave Subjugate Demon simply is never used. Literally never used. Only time it has been used in recent memory was as a gimmick within the Class Order Hall (where we didnât actually Enslave Subjugate the mob, we just cast the ability and was auto-controlled into releasing us) and the Warlock Green Fire Questline (the Pitlord, which nowadays is irrelevant given gear level and the âof the Black Harvestâ title no longer exists) and one of the adds in the Arcway dungeon during Legion. One of the times it was useful was to banish one of the mini-bosses in Hellfire Citadel, but then that was nerfed.
Each current demon becomes a âslotâ:
- the Ranged DPS with Self-Dispell slot (Imp)
- Tank and AOE slot (Voidwalker)
- Melee DPS with CC slot (Succubus)
- Melee DPS with Interrupt and Dispell (Felhunter)
- Demonology Melee Cleave DPS with Tank and CC functions (Felguard)
Every time you Enslave Subjugate a demon it gets assigned a name you cannot change without dismissing that demon or Enslaving Subjugating the same mob again, following the same way all our default demons have assigned names and we have to pay to replace them. The only demons we could not âreleaseâ would be our default demons, maybe, I donât know.
This would follow the logic that all demons are actually pre-existing beings. Our Wrathguard is an Eredar; he lived on Argus and had a family. They each have a âTrue Nameâ.
And canonically, knowing a demonâs true name gives you power over that demon:
- https://wow.gamepedia.com/Illidan's_Pupil
- https://wow.gamepedia.com/Not_Just_Any_Body
- https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Name_of_the_Beast
Within the game there are already âfamiliesâ of demons, and given the Voidwalker is a Void being ie aberrations families too. In fact, in the new Leveling Experience, we gain the ability to summon a Voidwalker by âcompletingâ a ritual via a grimoire to summon a Voidwalker from the Void while a Void portal hurts us.
Infact, within the lore and earlier versions of WoW, grimoires were within the Warlock fantasy, whether was quest items where we enslave demons to learn them, or to empower some talents/spells:
Within the narrative, the only thing that prevents a warlock from Enslaving Subjugating a demon is our power. In Legion, we Enslaved Subjugated the Eredar Twins via a Bloodstone (which canonically is a fragment of Old God power), in the Legacy of the Masters questline (Green Fire quest), we Enslaved Subjugated a Pit Lord when fighting Kanrethad at the end scenario, and to begin with as it stands we already Enslaved Subjugated an imp, a succubus, a moâarg (Felguard), eredar (Prince Malchezaar, Demonic Tyrant, Wrathguard), a darkglare, an observer, a shivarra, a fel imp, a voidwalker, a voidlord (separate from the Void Lords that in canon cannot manifest in reality), a felhunter, an infernal, and an abyssal, and a variety of other demons through the Demonology Talent Demonic Portal (including Urâzuls, and Felbats, and more)
Furthermore we are now the Netherlord of Dreadscar Rift, First of the Black Harvest, with a small demonic army at our disposal.
In the case of Demonology, the way the spec could be âuniqueâ with regards to this hypothetical system is while Affliction and Destruction can Enslave Subjugate Common demons and aberrations, Demonology as a spec can Enslave Subjugate Elite/Named Elite demons and aberrations. Perhaps with a singular Destruction exception of their being able to Enslave Subjugate Elite Demons for the Infernal CD, and Affliction being able to Enslave Subjugate Elite Demons (or Aberrations?) for their Darkglare CD. But Demonology could Enslave Subjugate Elites for whatever demon slot.
Note, this is my (OPâs) allocation of slots and isnât a consensus by any means. Sources are Wowpediaâs Demon page and Aberration page.
Demons | Common or Unnamed Elite | Named Elite | Proposed Slot |
---|---|---|---|
Annihilan (or pit lords) | No | Yes | Infernal |
Antaen | No | Yes | Infernal |
Bilescourge | Yes | Yes | Felhunter |
Aranasi | Yes | Yes | Succubus |
Demon Spiders | Yes | No | Felhunter |
Darkhound | Yes | Yes | Felhunter |
Doomguard | Yes | Yes | Darkglare, Tyrant |
Doomlord | No | Yes | Infernal |
Felbat | Yes | Yes | Felhunter |
Fel beast | Yes | Yes | Felhunter |
Felhound | Yes | No | Felhunter |
Felstalker | Yes | Yes | Felhunter |
Fiend (Terrorguard, Fear Fiend, Terrorfiend) | Yes | Yes | Darkglare, Tyrant, Infernal |
Imp and Fel Imp | Yes | Yes | Imp |
Imp mother | No | Yes | Imp, Succubus |
Infernal | No | Yes | Infernal |
Abyssal | Yes | Yes | Infernal |
Inquisitor | Yes | Yes | Darkglare, Imp |
Jailer | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker, Succubus |
Manâari eredar | Yes | Yes | Darkglare, Tyrant |
Wrathguard | Yes | Yes | Felguard |
Ganâarg | Yes | Yes | Imp, Felhunter |
Moâarg brute | Yes | Yes | Infernal |
Felguard | Yes | Yes | Felguard |
Fel lord | Yes | Yes | Felguard |
Nathrezim | Yes | Yes | Darkglare, Tyrant |
Felsteed | Yes | Yes | Felhunter |
Dreadsteed | No | No | N/A |
Observer | Yes | Yes | Felhunter |
Darkglare | Yes | Yes | Darkglare |
Overfiend | Yes | Yes | Darkglare, Tyrant, infernal |
Satyr | Yes | Yes | Succubus |
Succubus | Yes | Yes | Succubus |
Shivarra | Yes | Yes | Succubus |
Urâzul | Yes | Yes | Felhunter |
Vilefiend | Yes | Yes | Felhunter |
Void terror | Yes | Yes | Felhunter |
Wyrmtongue | Yes | Yes | Imp |
Aberrations | Common or Unnamed Elite | Named Elite | Proposed Slot |
---|---|---|---|
Void God | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker |
Voidlord | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker |
Nâraqi (standard, Câthaxxi, Kâthir) | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker |
Merciless One (Standard, Nazjatari) | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker |
Sha (Shaling, larger shaw, Prime Sha) | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker |
Void Revenant | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker |
Voidcaller | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker |
Voidwalker | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker |
Voidwraith | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker |
Wicker Constructs (Wickermen, Wicker Behemoths, Wickerbrutes) | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker |
Beastman | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker |
Beholder | Yes | Yes | Felhunter |
Fleshbeasts | Yes | Yes | Felhunter |
Haunt | Yes | Yes | Felhunter |
Psyfiend | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker |
Blood Abomination | Yes | Yes | Voidwalker |
Thatâs 41 demon families (if we count the 3 Fiend and 2 Imp subtypes separately), and 20 aberration families (if we count the subtypes of Nâraqi, Sha, and non-animal Wicker Construct subtypes separately), totalling 61 families.
Each family has approximately 2-5 recolors, giving us an estimate of just over 200 demons/aberrations for each warlock to choose from!
Hunters have 76 families, which if we subdivided by each subtype, totals over 300 different families. Multiply that by all the ones that have recolors, and the number is super high.
IMO in an ideal, wish-granted scenario, it would play out as this:
- There is a Grimoire at Dreadscar Rift (class hall) and next to each Warlock trainer in each major city, five slots in the Grimoire interface, one for each demon as I mention.
(I would honestly 100% exclusively go back to Silvermoon as a Blood Elf Warlock to switch out demons in The Sanctum, the âwarlock guildâ)
- You go to where the Demon you want is. Enslave is a simple spell, you wrap them up in chains like on live.
- You must bring the Demon to Dreadscar Rift (class hall), specifically to the area used for the Ritual of Doom class hall ability where during the Class Hall Campaign we summoned the two Eredar Twins and enslaved them.
- Thereâs an altar thingy in the middle of the summoning circle in that area, clicking on the altar causes the demon you enslave to jump up to your level and aggro you again.
- You must defeat the demon, down to 1%, for them to tell you their âTrue Nameâ, and thus it is automatically added to your grimoire permanently, because youâve enslaved the demon via contract using its true name.
- The Grimoire is just a list of demons that you can switch out with the assigned names. If you want to change a demonâs name, you MUST âsacrificeâ the demon on the altar in Dreadscar Rift, and we enslave the same model. The only exception are the Named Demon NPCs, since those are presumably their true names.
[/quote]
Enslave Subjugate Demon only sees relevance in niche or gimmicky moments every expansion, and even in Legion the spell was only really useful as a CC mechanic in some pulls (and even then, rarely; most notably its used in Xhulâhorac was nerfed actually). This would be an amazing addition to the game, of equal if not superior level to the Green Fire Questline in MoP.
My personal list for what demons I would pick would be:
- Felguard slot - General Xakal (Fel Lord), rare add
- Succubus slot - Sister Subversia (Shivarra), rare add
- Imp slot - probaby just the fel imp model we already use, or get Gazakroth which is a purple recolor of the Fel Imp from Hex Lord Malacrass
- Felhunter - a Dark Devourer Felhound model
- Voidwalker - Soggoth the Slitherer faceless one
Using the hashtag #WarlockStables on Twitter for this so feel free to join. Just started a daily tweet about it today (August 20).
Bump!
Preach Alpha Quick Look (April 11 pass)
Kalamazi Alpha Feedback Video (April 13 pass)
Kalamazi Alpha Torghast Feedback Video (last update April 20)
Bellular Warlock Video Round 2 (with much appreciated apology for his round 1 :D was nice) (May 7 pass)
Belullar Ranged DPS Roundup, Warlock Section (May 22)
Kalamazi June 11 post-June-10-changes feedback
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Dalaran Jaming June 14 Affliction Review
Kalamazi June 17 post-June-17-changes feedback (Destro/Demo centric)
Dalaran Gaming Warlock June 18 Legendary preview/review
Dalaran Gaming June 19 Destruction/Demo Review
Kalamazi June 20 post-June-17-changes feedback overhaul/updates
Tiqqle June 21 post June 17 feedback
Preach June 24 post June 17 feedback
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Kalamazi July 11 Datamined Legendaries Review
Kalamazi July 16 Feedback
Kalamazi July 19 Fire Warlock vs Chaos Warlock issue
Kalamazi July 26 Beta Updated Feedback Document Video
Kalamazi July 27, August 4, August 11 Beta Feedback Series:
Pt. 1 Demonology
Pt.2 Destruction
pt. 3 Affliction