FEEDBACK: Warlock Class Changes

Updated August 19

In this week’s Beta build, we’ve made some changes to Warlock’s baseline abilities to make sure Warlocks have new spells and rank-ups available for most of their levels. Along the way, we made a few changes that affect Warlocks at max level.

Ritual of Doom

  • Learned at level 37. Begins a ritual that sacrifices a random participant to summon a Doomguard. Requires the caster and 4 additional party members to complete the ritual. 1 hour cooldown.
    • This summons a hostile Doomguard that soon becomes automatically subjugated as an additional guardian pet for the Warlock. Currently, the Doomguard lasts up to 15 minutes, but has a small chance to break free from the subjugation at any time and attack your group. We’re still working on the details of this ability, but we’d love to hear your feedback about it.

Fear (Rank 2)

  • Learned at level 52. You no longer suffer spell pushback when casting Fear.
    • This functionality has existed in the past but was never explicitly tool-tipped anywhere. We removed the pushback resistance at first, but decided to bake it in as a rank-up instead.

Curse of Recklessness

  • This spell has been removed.
    • While we liked Warlocks being able to stop enemies from fleeing, we didn’t feel the physical damage increase was working out. Warlocks gave feedback that they felt required to use Curse of Recklessness on as many creatures as possible for the damage gain, and weren’t having fun with the ability. Warlocks still have access to Tongues, Weakness, and Exhaustion in their repertoire of Curses.

Eye of Kilrogg

  • Eye of Kilrogg is once again attackable by enemy players, and is usable in rated PvP.
    • This was partly in support of using the new conduit Kilrogg’s Cunning, but also to provide more uses for Eye of Kilrogg in all areas of the game.

July 15

In the next build, we’ve made a few Destruction Warlock talent adjustments to address concerns with how the new talents are fitting into the rotation. While we’re not yet focused on making broad class tuning adjustments, we want to make sure these new talents are in a reasonable place for Beta.

Destruction

Talents

  • Soul Fire cooldown is now 45 seconds (was 1 minute) and now applies Immolate (was an instant Incinerate).
  • Internal Combustion reverted to consuming 5 seconds of Immolate (was 7 seconds).
  • Shadowburn reverted to 2 charges (was 1) and its cooldown is now also reduced by Haste.
  • Shadowburn Spell Power coefficient increased to 141% (was 130%).
  • Roaring Blaze lasts 8 seconds (was 6 seconds).
  • Rain of Chaos Infernals now always spawn where your first Infernal landed.

PvP Talents

  • Focused Chaos damage increase is now 40% (down from 65%).

July 8

Thanks for all of the detailed feedback! While there are still some planned changes coming for Warlock, we’ve made a few recently that you should be seeing in the Alpha:

Affliction

  • Agony base damage increased by 12%.
  • Inevitable Demise increases Drain Life’s damage by 12% per stack (was 5%).

Demonology

  • Axe Toss now interrupts stun immune targets, such as dungeon or raid bosses. This does not affect PvP combat.

Destruction

  • Soulfire damage increased by 40%.
  • Infernals summoned from Rain of Chaos no longer trigger Infernal Awakening.
  • Rain of Chaos Infernals now have some bad luck protection built in. Chance also increased to 20% (was 15%).

June 17

For Warlock, we’re focused on improving talent choices for Destruction and Demonology, as well as adding rewards for leveling up. In particular, we’d like there to be more viable builds for these specs to experiment with. This led to changes for the highly popular talents Demonic Consumption and Grimoire of Supremacy. Please continue posting your feedback on these changes in this thread. Thank you!

Warlock

  • Demonic Gateway no longer despawns when the caster dies. When the gateway is close to despawning, it begins dissolving out of view to warn the caster and allies that they may wish to replace it.
    • Developers’ notes: We’ve heard feedback that the routine of replacing your Demonic Gateway for each boss attempt can be tedious to the point of irritating. We’ve made a change that allows the gateway to persist through death and we’ll be listening for feedback on this change.

Affliction Warlock

  • Unstable Affliction reverted to Limit 1. Spell coefficient reverted to its previous amount.
    • Developers’ notes: Even without picking talents like Siphon Life and Phantom Singularity, Affliction was unable to keep up with their dots being active on more than 3 targets. Unstable Affliction should now be used on your priority target, which causes Malefic Rapture to do increased damage to that target.

Talents

  • Haunt now applies Shadow Embrace.

PvP Talents

  • Soulshatter grants Soul Shards equal to the number of targets hit, instead of Haste.
  • Malignant Affliction is a new PvP talent. Unstable Affliction is no longer limited to 1 target, but deals 10% less damage. If your Unstable Affliction is dispelled, you instantly gain 15% haste for 10s.
    • Developers’ notes: With Unstable Affliction now at limit 1, we want to provide an avenue for a Warlock to be able to protect their dots on multiple targets, particularly in battlegrounds.

Destruction Warlock

  • Summon Infernal (Rank 2) is learned at level 52. Infernal Awakening deals 150% increased damage on impact.

  • Havoc (Rank 2) is learned at level 54. Havoc duration is increased by 2 sec.

  • Rain of Fire (Rank 2) is learned at level 56. Rain of Fire damage is increased by 30%.

Talents

Level 15 Row

  • Soulfire is now a 4 second cast. Damage increased from 100% spell power to 300% spell power. 1 minute cooldown. Causes your next Incinerate to be instant cast and generates 1 Soul Shard.
    • Developers’ notes: This spell hadn’t found a niche as an additional short cast time spell. It returns to a 4-second cast time, serving as a pre-pull opener spell to kick-start your damage.

Level 25 Row

  • Shadowburn is now a 1 shard spender. Damage increased to 130% spell power (was 60%), with a 12-second cooldown. Has 50% increased critical strike chance on low health targets, and generates 1 Soul Shard if the target dies within 5 seconds.

    • Developers’ notes: Shadowburn as a generator was not exciting enough. Shadowburn now provides an alternative way to spend shards, especially while on the move, and also adds burst damage in an execute window, similar to its historic design.
  • Internal Combustion consumes up to 7 seconds of your Immolate (was 5 seconds).

Level 35 Row

  • Cataclysm damage decreased to 180% spell power (was 200% spell power).

Level 45 Row

  • Grimoire of Supremacy renamed Rain of Chaos. While your initial Infernal is active, every Soul Shard you spend has a 15% chance to summon an additional Infernal that lasts 10 seconds.
    • Developers’ notes: Grimoire of Supremacy was too integral to Destruction’s damage output, even without Vision of Perfection. It also created unhealthy gameplay in PvP. We want this talent to remain powerful and exciting, so instead of ramping Chaos Bolt damage, Warlocks can try to maximize the amounts of Infernals spawned. The goal is to provide the same fun gameplay, without being too reliant on getting a very high modifier on your Chaos Bolt.
  • Roaring Blaze redesigned, now causes the target to take 30% increased Fire damage from the Warlock for 6 seconds.
    • Developers’ notes: This does not affect Chaos Bolt – only pure Fire damage spells. We want to try opening up other talent builds that can work with your Fire spells.

Level 50 Row

  • Channel Demonfire primary target damage increased by 10%.

Demonology Warlock

  • Summon Demonic Tyrant (Rank 2) is learned at level 52: Now generates 5 Soul Shards when cast.
  • Call Dreadstalkers (Rank 2) is learned at level 54. Call Dreadstalkers cast time is reduced by 0.5s, and they gain a Pursuit spell to close the gap when their target is greater than 10 yards away.
  • Wild Imps now spawn more immediately after Hand of Guldan, and 2-3 imps spawn in faster succession. In addition, if they path fail, they now teleport to the Warlock.
    • Developers’ notes: This should both improve quality of life and help prevent purposely getting your imp stuck somewhere to prevent them from casting.
  • Wild Imps Rank 2 is learned at level 56. Imp energy cost on Fel Firebolt decreased by 20%.
    • Developers’ notes: As a result, they can cast one additional Fel Firebolt before despawning.

Talents

  • Demonic Consumption no longer sacrifices imps. Now instead drains 15% health of all active demons, empowering itself based on HP consumed.
    • Developers’ notes: This is a fusion between modern Demonic Consumption and Thalkiel’s Consumption from Legion. The goal is to give the Warlock more incentive to care about summoning other demons, and to allow for Implosion and Power Siphon to have their unique flavor be sacrificing imps.
  • Power Siphon now also adds 30% damage to your next 2 casts Demonbolt.
  • Nether Portal demons summoned attack power increased by 21%.
  • Demonic Calling reduces shard cost of Call Dreadstalkers by 2.
  • Inner Demons random demons summoned attack power increased by 21%.

June 10

Hello!

In this build of the Shadowlands Alpha, we’ve made some changes to Affliction Warlocks, based on your feedback. We want to address concerns with pet summoning, Curse of Doom, and Affliction’s single target rotation, among other things.

Thank you for all your posts!

Warlock

  • Fel Domination is now a baseline ability, learned at level 34, with a 3 minute cooldown. Fel Domination reduces summoning cast time by 5.5 seconds.
    • Summoning your pet shouldn’t be always easy, but sometimes you need a new pet in a pinch.
  • Curse of Doom removed for Affliction and Destruction.
  • Curse of Exhaustion is learned at level 58 for all three specializations.
  • Curse of Exhaustion slows the target by 50% for 8 seconds.
    • Developers’ notes: We love Curse of Doom, but it wasn’t working out well at a 60-second period. Also, we feel that Curse of Exhaustion will provide interesting choices when deciding which Curse to use.

Affliction

  • Shadow Embrace is now baseline as a part of Shadow Bolt (Rank 2), learned at level 52 for Affliction.
    • Developers’ notes: Shadow Bolt for Affliction was falling by the wayside in the rotation. This should encourage Warlocks to use it more often, and provide more gameplay while fighting a single target.
  • Unstable Affliction no longer has a limit of 1, and no longer amplifies damage on your target.
  • Unstable Affliction’s damage backlash on dispel increased substantially.
  • At level 56, Unstable Affliction is ranked up to gain an additional 5 seconds of duration.
    • Developers’ notes: This is a more of an experimental change than the rest, but we feel that Unstable Affliction is not meeting player expectations at a limit of 1. This change allows Affliction to focus more on spreading dots to many targets at once.
  • Corruption now ranks up at level 54 to gain an initial period, dealing .12 coefficient damage instantly.

Talents

  • Writhe in Agony now also causes Agony to start at 4 stacks, in addition to increasing its maximum stacks to 18.
  • New Talent: Inevitable Demise. Damaging an enemy with Agony increases the damage of your next Drain Life by 5%. This effect stacks up to 50 times.
  • Nightfall now activates slightly more often as Corruption spreads to more targets.
    • Developers’ notes: Previously, Nightfall was not occurring more often as you spread Corruption to multiple targets. This felt counter-intuitive, so we added functionality to increase its rate with multiple Corruptions. Similar to Agony, its increase is not linear, but you will see more Nightfalls multi-target.
  • Deathbolt is now a PvP talent.
    • Developers’ notes: With Unstable Affliction stacking gone, the instant burst single target damage from this felt more appropriate as a PvP talent, to act as a finisher.
  • Tongue Tied Removed. Replaced with–
  • Howl of Terror: Fears 5 targets within 10 yards for 20 seconds. Has a 1.5 second cast time and 40 second cooldown.
  • New talent: Dark Caller (in place of Shadow Embrace). Reduces the cooldown of Summon Darkglare by 1 minute.
    • Developers’ notes: This talent should allow Warlocks to specialize further into keeping lots of dots on many targets at once, and give them more room to use Malefic Rapture in that window.

PvP Talents

  • Soulshatter removes all active Corruptions, dealing 10% of their maximum HP and grants 10% Haste, stacking 5 times. Lasts 15 seconds, and is magic dispellable.
    • Developers’ notes: This talent was very under-utilized due to the heavy cost of removing all dots, so it now removes Corruption instead, and no longer generates soul shards.
  • Deathbolt now deals 60% damage equal to remaining duration of your dots, has a 0.5 second cast time, and a 45 second cooldown. Deathbolt missile is slower and more apparent.
  • Amplify Curse now affects Curse of Exhaustion, causing it to slow the target by 70%.

Demonology

Talents

  • Curse of Doom reverted to Doom, with damage increased.

In this thread, we’re discussing Warlock class changes coming in World of Warcraft: Shadowlands.

Read more about initial class changes in the World of Warcraft blog.

This initial post will be updated periodically throughout the Shadowlands test. Please check back here for information about further updates to this class as they are made.

Thank you for your testing and feedback!

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UPDATED FOR RECENT WARLOCK CHANGES!
Bolded text with ital is additions to current text. Removed a TON of stuff that was requested and added! Again thank you for the already made changes like fel domination, inevitable demise, and baleful invocation.
Warlock Feedback, ideas, and dislikes about the class as it currently is.

Spells

Corruption

Nice to have it back for demo and destro, however it feels awkward to have a second dot in destro, and in demo a spec so reliant on timing its odd. Plus with ZERO synergies in these specs, it seems like a spell that is just there to deal damage, while all other abilities synergise with the spec, this does not.

(No changes here)

Metamorphosis

Either as a glyph, or a dps cooldown, this needs to return, it was such a huge part of the spec, it was THE main spell for demonology from wotlk till wod, it needs to be a thing again, even if only wings, claws, and horns as a glyph.

Another idea would be to make it a talent that makes hand of gul’dan into chaos wave, shadowbolt into chaos slash, and make your 4 basic abilities castable while moving, slowing you while casting. This acting almost exactly like kiljaedens cunning, the mop talent. Allowing you to cast some abilities on the move, but at the cost of your movement being slow.

Demonic circle

Warlocks having 2 “Set up ahead of time” mobility moves baseline, with 0 baseline movement speed ability feels really bad, while demonic circle is nice, and gateway is nice, swapping one of these out for baseline burning rush would be so nice. Especially with burning rush, being in the same row as their defensives, while also hurting them, has always made it a tough choice.

Call felhunter

In a raid and dungeon, or even solo content, having to switch to fel hunter to interrupt, something all other classes have baseline is annoying, however for demonology this is a massive dps downgrade, 2 abilities become unusable, and the felhunter does far less damage then the felguard.

Adding call felhunter baseline to demo, summoning a weaker felhunter that interrupts, then deals a bit of damage for a bit would be great.

Or simply allow demonolgy to have a second, weaker demon, it does far less damage, but has the “command lesser demon” ability, it cant be felguard of course, this way they need to be one of the “utility” pets. Allowing demonolgy to have access to the cc, interrupt, and dispel.

Mini-fernals

During legion we got the artifact ability that made your summon infernal summon down 3 extra mini-fernals, these would be amazing to add back, maybe as a talent? A good replacement for grimoire of supremacy to make it less “force as many chaos bolts into infernal as possible” and put more onto the demon.

I see you tried to do this sorta with rain of chaos, but the RNG component just feels bad, really it should just be extra mini infernals oooor

Rain of chaos, summon infernal reduces to 1 minute cooldown, but has 3 charges. summons a miniinfernal, which lasts same duration as a normal infernal, but generates 1/2 the shards, and deals 1/2 the aoe damage.

Grimoire of supremacy

Returning our choice to focus on our summoning and controlling of powerful demons, It would be great to have our permanent infernal back, a new permanent darkglare, and maybe for demo, make the felguard into a fel lord, or the wrathguard, removing the glyph of wrathguard. Warlocks have always been limited in choice of pets, but allowing us to empower our pets has been a great class fantasy. Or instead of perma greater demons, return to the old days and give us stronger versions of our current demons.

Plus this would be a great way to return chaos bolt to just being a heavy hitter, instead of being a “meh” ability, that then becomes insanely powerful when you have infernal out. Destro should work up to constant heavy hitting chaos bolts, with infernal just allowing you to get them FASTER. but instead it ends up being chaos bolt hits weak most of the time, but then when infernal comes out it hits super hard, and super often.

Soul drain

Make soul drain baseline for affliction, it just feels so much better, and makes each spec have their own unique filler spell, it feels so much nicer.

Armors

Fel armor and demon armor, returning these would be amazing, magic resist, armor, and extra healing received? Or passive healing and extra damage, allows us to slightly manipulate ourselves depending on the situations.

Shadowfury

Make shadowfury do damage again, return it to its old self. Maybe by default, or make the talent also have it deal damage, as currently the talent is rather meh.

Curse of X

Curse of tongues and curse of weakness, merge then into curse of enfeeblement, this spell was very nice back in the day, had the effect of both, although slightly weaker. This way we could save an extra spot, and prevent curse juggling. This way we simply have 3 (or 2) curses to deal with. And also the stronger versions could be in pvp talents, the right out curse of tongues, and weakness.

Curse of recklessness

Nice to have it back, but in this day, it really does not have a use, not many mobs flee these days, and also warlocks are unlikely to make a mob take extra physical damage (something we dont do) at the risk of it killing some of our allies. It just does not seem useful, and in my many hours on alpha, i never once found myself going “this is the perfect time for it!”

Grimoire of sacrifice

Return it to the older version which gave you extra health and damage, as how is it currently, its just a random proc of damage, which feels lame.
Change the shadow damage into shadowflame damage, as well it works well this way, and fits more with destro and afff, instead of just aff.

Soulflame

Soul flame was a fun ability, when you killed an enemy it exploded dealing a bit of damage to stuff around it, this was such a fun effect, and lead to some fun fireworks in old dungeons, it would be amazing if this returned as baseline, or the side effect of a talent. as having this be a talent on its own would feel lame in raids, and mean likely never being taken anywhere but some dungeons with big aoe.

Dreadstalkers

Add a baseline way to make them instant cast, or do aoe, as they are now they feel rather basic.

Summon Infernal/doomguard

It feels odd that the spec about summoning demons, cant summon all the demons, returning doomguard to warlocks, and giving infernal to them, having a talent that allows you to summon one of your choice would be great, maybe replace demonic consumption as it sucks to summon an army of imps, just to /delete them.

Dots for demo/destro

Both demo and destruction are not based around dots, affliction is the dot spec. So it really feels we do not need MORE dots, 1 for demo, and 1 for destro is fine. adding a dot covenant ability, a dot in corruption, both add up to 3 dots for destro, 2 for demo, and that doesent include doom? that is way too much. Destro is supposed to be the big chunky hit spec and demo about demons, they really dont need MORE dots.

Chaos bolt

Since we are getting shattering throw back, might it be possible we get the old chaos bolt back which ignores absorb shield? Maybe not ALL of its damage, but allow some of its damage to ignore absorb shields just for the flavour of its old self.

Fel Flame

Fel flame was a good instant cast that extended your immolate, this was a great ability to just have to fill movement as destro, it was not a ton of damage, but it meant you never lost your immolate to lame movement. And gives you something to press, even if it was just a miniscule amount of damage.

Soulfire

While cool, the concept of a 4 second spell that does lots of damage is nice for destro, and really fun to have back, however there is some issues. the game is not made for super long casts anymore, and its pitiful amount of damage, 1 min cd too? long cd, low damage, long cast time, it just seems underwhelming sooo

1. Make it unable to be havoced, this way it can be balanced more easily. “THis spell is far too strong to havoc” make it a PURE single target, like chaos bolt used to be. and with this massivly increase the damage, and add a “Each soul shard you spend reduces the cooldown by X seconds” this way it can be cast a bit more often, as once a minute is a bit long, and this way you wouldnt need to be massivly increased it could be only slightly increased. a 1 minute CD should lead to a fair bit of damage, but having it all in 1 spell can lead to a super big chunk in pvp… which could be bad, but the next option is better…

2. Remove soulfire all together, replace it with the artifact talent from legion, this way we can get that awesome ability back, allowing us to rip open chaotic portals in space, dealing some damage, giving us some soulshard fragments, and having a chance to reset a charge on soulshards spent. 3 charges, 30 second cooldown, etc. was a super cool ability and fit with the destro “Chaotic nature” and the warlocks “opening portals” nature, plus a great ability to fit into the theme you want with cooldown that generates shards.

Covenent

None of the abilities feel rather warlocky… They feel mostly like they are just… Normal spells anyone could learn, with 1 thing that has something to do with a warlock tacked on

“Deals constant damage… if they die it gives soulshards!”
“Deals aoe damage… Applies a curse!”
“Deals damage depending on their hp… Buffs your most basic ability!”
“Deals aoe damage… Makes your drain life aoe!”

All of these, you could just swap the second part and it would feel like any other class, they have no feeling of “this is a warlock themed ability” some other classes have this problem with 1 or 2 abilities, but for warlocks it is all four. The kyrian one could literally be changed to combo points for feral or rogue and it would feel exactly in place, its so generic because of such.

None of the abilities currently stick out as “fun’ or “exciting” meanwhile every other class seems to have one like the hunt, or turn into a skeleton mage, or send out a swarm of bouncing shields, or fire off 16 spells in 4 seconds.

All of the warlock covenant abilities feel extremely generic, and that they could really be any class, hopefully this is soon enough for some change, cause right now, many other classes i go “wow that so cool!” but to all of the warlocks ones i say “meh”
I even made a video on the most unique abilities, and it hurt to not even be able to consider a warlock one.

Plus each ability well just feels like it has a specific spec it works with, and that becomes a huge issue.
Necrolords works insanely with drain soul from affliction, and fire and brimestone for destro, but… doesent really work AT ALL with demo… and well with this it just feels like you are playing those specs you gotta go necrolords, but if your demo, you go one of the other.

Night fae is literally insane with affliction because of inevitable demise, get 50 stacks, and then use the drain life on a group of enemies and it does SOOOOOOO much damage. while i like these kinda interactions, it feels bad when only 1 spec works with these. as currently there is nothing that works well with revendreth, or with bastion. and demo has none it works well with.

I still feel dissapointed that for example warlocks get these, while for example mages get to transform into a lich in the necrolord ability…

Cosmetics

Soulfire

Simply cosmetic, it has been part of demonology from wotlk to wod, it really needs to be in demo. Change shadowbolt into demonbolt, and demonbolt into soulfire. Give destro locks their legion artifact ability in place of this, again simply cosmetic. This is a great way to show green fire in demo, and return the spell to its rightful owner.

Demon customization

Allow us to customize the colours and apperances of our demons. Either more glyphs, allowing us to choose the colours of our demons, as many come in many colours, or even allow us to go out into the world and enslave demons to collect their apperances, maybe even have them become like hunter tame beast, demons out in the world fitting into specific demon families.

Wrathguard

Return 2 handed weapons to wrathguard, as for a long time they did, but suddenly they started using 1 weapon, then again 2 weapons, and then again 1 weapon, and been that way since.

Soulshards

Soulshards, this glyph added in 7.2 used to cost a lot of gold, making soulshards float above your head, this is very cool, however there is no way to tell unless you ask others, to realise these soulshards are basically UI elements, as no one else can use them. Please make them visible to all, its as if transmog or mounts were not visible to others. Yes there is the worry of pvp, but maybe make the other faction unable to see, or simply let people go hey, i understand if i equip this glyph, they can see my soulshards, i gotta accept that. If they dont want it, they can ignore the glyph.

Green Fire

Add green fire back to our spells, ⅔ specs do not show any green fire, this once epic effect was a huge boon to locks, but now only destro even sees it, make some abilities that even arnt fire green, shadowbolt, hand of guldan, demonbolt, drain soul, phantom singularity, implosion, etc.

Covenent soul shards

This would require you listening to the above soulshard post, making soulshards visible to all and not just the warlock but.

Soulshards based on the covenant you are in, an idea pitched to me that i think would be amazing, some necrotic shards if necrolords, some gleaming blue beautiful ones from bastion, some blood shards from revendreth, and some mystical sphere soulshards from night fae.

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Not much was added for us this first build, so adding what I have:

Scouring Tithe, the Kyrian Covenant ability for Warlocks on its current iteration feels pretty weak compared to other covenant abilities . Other previewed covenant spells showed more interactions with other specs for all 3 specializations while the only benefit Scouring Tithe does is 5 shards in case a target dies with it (accompanied by a pretty long cooldown for a spell that does so little outside of that). As a Destruction Warlock, it also feels quite bad that Scouring Tithe cannot be duplicated via Havoc (especially when it interacts with other Warlock abilities, for example, Summon Darkglare currently extends its duration). I know this is super early but it feels like this already eliminates one covenant choice for Warlocks who seek to be competitive.

As an old school warlock I’m overall happy with the return of Curses, but I need to mirror Felplague’s statement about Curse of Doom: Its current iteration is similar to older versions of the spell, and having a debuff that only does its effects an entire minute after being applied feels very slow in today’s fast-paced gameplay, especially if its supposed to compete with other curses. The Doomguard implementation also feels pretty bad for WoW in its current state - Not only you need to wait for that full minute for the DOT to actually deal damage, but the dot needs to be the killing blow on the target, and then its still only a chance of the Doomguard spawning (and then if you’re either aff, destro or untalented demo, you still need to enslave it and lose your main demon). I’d suggest simply removing the Doomguard interaction (or adding it as a chance on damage for Demonology Warlocks).

Tongue Tied is a neat talent idea, but unless there are any fights that will heavily rely on uninterruptible heals, it will never be taken for non-PvP situations. Because of this, I feel like it needs to be moved to a PvP talent. Since Demonic Circle used to be on the spot where Tongue Tied is, I’d suggest adding some sort of improvement to Demonic Circle on that talent spot. An interesting suggestion would be readding the old Glyph of Eye of Kilrogg effect as a talent, where you can use Eye of Kilrogg to set Demonic Circle in a remote location.

Darkfury was initially reported as giving the extra area of effect on Shadowfury for Demonology Warlocks, but as of Alpha it also applies for the other specializations. Thanks for this. Keep it that way!

Malefic Rapture is an interesting idea for a new Soul Shard spender for Affliction and I like that it fixes the main flaw of Deathbolt, simply doing damage per DOT effect on the target instead of relying on how many seconds on the DOT are left (which would force you to reapply your dots just before using Deathbolt for maximum effect). I would like to see this added to Deathbolt somehow, if Deathbolt is to remain a talent for Shadowlands.

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-----Moved everything to top post----

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~Moved Everything To My Post Below~

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Posting for a friend:

My character name is Thasta/Nevercurse. I’ve played every version of Affliction Warlock, and I’ve mained Affliction since WotLK. I’ve achieved at minimum the Gladiator title in the 3v3 bracket at least once per expansion starting in Season 8, usually multiple seasons per expansion. I have a passion for WoW Arena. With that being said, I will be reviewing these changes mostly from a PvP point of view. I fell in love with Affliction as a DoT specialization, with the ability to skillfully use my toolkit to control/weaken enemies while they die to attrition.

Here are some of my thoughts about Affliction from the current Alpha build:

Unstable Affliction
I LOVE the duration has been extended from 8 seconds to 16 seconds.
The DoT portion still doesn’t scale with haste like other DoTs.
The backlash effect is still significantly weaker than the DoT (dispelling this ability should be very punishing). I wish it could be applied to more than one enemy at a time.

Malefic Rupture

It’s an interesting single target and AoE nuke with a short cast time.

Affliction definitely needed help in the AoE dps category, but it does feel slightly odd to have such a bursty/spammy single target nuke for a spec that is built around consistent DoT pressure. I feel like the DoTs themselves should be buffed in some way, or our filler should be buffed to be big chunk of our damage single target damage. For comparison, a 4-DoT Malefic Rupture hits around 1100 while a shadow bolt hits for around 175. Chaos bolt hits around 1900. Corruption ticks for around 85, and Unstable Affliction around 215. There is a very high difference in DPS when spamming Malefic Rupture and when not. I feel like Affliction’s single target damage output should be more consistent and smooth instead of spiky. ( Note: doesn’t currently work with the Phantom Singularity talent )

Idea: Instead of this being a super spiky single target nuke, it could behave like Unholy DK’s Virulent Eruption, where each target affected by your DoTs “erupts”, causing an explosion on each target

Curses

Curse Tongues : Great anti-caster utility spell, glad to have it back. 30% might be a little strong though.

Curse of Weakness : The current version provides a 20% attack speed decrease. After reviewing my damage meter recording Arenas yesterday in BFA, white attacks were never doing more than ~10% overall damage for any melee specialization. Unless melee specs in Shadowlands will have a much higher percentage of damage done by white hits, this current version of Curse of Weakness is weak. (Idea: Combine Curse of Tongues and Weakness into Curse of Enfeeblement like in MOP )

Curse of Recklessness: While I love for abilities to be unpruned, I have a difficult time finding situations for this ability to be useful. While questing, most mobs die too quickly to even worry about them running away at low health. In a PvP setting, this ability will not be used on a melee enemy ever. Against a caster enemy player, you would only use it to buff allied melee player damage, in which case it’s probably better to use Curse of Tongues to slow casting anyways.

Curse of Doom : Again, while I’m glad to see long-lost abilities unpruned, this version of Doom is extremely situational. Although it seems to scale with haste, it takes around 50+ seconds to do less damage than Agony does in 18 seconds. Perhaps the damage hasn’t been tuned yet? Historically, the reason to use Doom was against a strong target that would be alive for a longer time period. If Doom is going to only do damage once at the end of the duration, it needs to be doing massive damage. Otherwise, I would suggest is being like the MoP version where it lasts ~60 seconds, but does strong damage every 15 seconds or so.

Missing Curses :

Curse of Exhaustion : I understand if this can’t be given to all 3 warlock specs, but I feel Affliction should definitely have it. Currently Affliction has 0 baseline slows or instant CC abilities.

Curse of Elements : An original warlock ability that could provide the 5% magic damage taken debuff, similar to DH

Talents:

Nightfall : I would like to see the proc chance increased for having Corruption applied to multiple enemies, and perhaps the damage of the proc increased

Writhe in Agony : Although I love talents that buff our DoT damage, I wish this talent didn’t have such an insane ramp-up time, especially without the Sudden Onset azerite trait. At 15% haste, it takes over 25 seconds for Agony to ramp up to 18 stacks . While questing, even strong mobs die before Agony can reach full stacks. In a PvP situations against classes that can dispel curses, I worry the full damage from this talent will hardly ever be recognized. Perhaps this talent should make agony start out with 5+ stacks?

Siphon Life : I still feel like the healing from this ability should be closer to 100% than 30%. Needs a longer duration to reduce the hassle of maintaining uptime on another DoT

Demon Skin : Although this talent is currently necessary in PvP situations, I dislike how it is always passively generating HPS with 0 input or thought from the player after the talent is selected. I would like to see Soul Link un-pruned and given back to all warlock specs. Soul Link was always a cornerstone of warlock PvP since before Legion, and has been sorely missed .

Darkfury: Would love to see this talent also make Shadowfury an instant cast.

Tongue Tied : Although I love the idea of this talent, it feels like it belongs in the PvP talent category. Stopping uninterruptible healing in a PvE setting is extremely rare, and I don’t foresee any warlock giving up Mortal Coil, especially against teams that can dispel curses. This exciting new talent will very rarely be used on this talent row. ( SUGGESTION: Replace with instant Howl of Terror? This gives the warlock an option of choosing between 3 instant Crowd Control abilities, which Affliction is especially lacking currently )

Haunt : I really appreciate the increased duration to 18 seconds. Would also like to see the cooldown reset if dispelled in PvP.

Affliction Overall Feel :

I would like to see DoT durations increased . After playing Vanilla, where Agony lasts 24 seconds, Corruption lasts 18 seconds, and Siphon Life lasts 30 seconds, I remembered how much better this felt. In MoP, Warlock DoTs were able to be extended by 50% via pandemic. Agony, Corruption and Unstable Affliction could be refreshed to 36/27/21 second durations respectively. This allowed our rotation to feel a lot more smooth, and focus less on maintaining ~15 second DoT durations on multiple targets and more on doing other things like controlling/debuffing enemies, especially in a PvP setting where a healer can clean all a target of all debuffs with 1 button.

Alternative Idea: Agony and curses have a reduced GCD, allowing DoT and Curse debuff uptime to be more manageable. Even in BFA, While playing with high levels of haste, trying to maintain 3+ DoTs on 3+ targets is literally a full time job, if not impossible when factoring in dispels

Pets having the same amount of health but a 6 second base cast time feels like a harsh change with no way to quick summon

  • I am still concerned with Affliction not having a single baseline slow, instant CC ability, or damage mitigation such as Soul Link.

Fun and Exciting Abilities I still miss:

Howl of Terror : Iconic affliction ability that gave us an instant form of CC (Affliction has none) on multiple targets.

Soul Link : A percentage of damage taken by the warlock was transferred to the pet. Provided much needed mitigation and allowed interesting play with pet management

Curse of Exhaustion : Iconic warlock curse to slow enemies

Soul Swap : Extremely fun ability that allowed us to quickly duplicate DoTs to different targets

Fel Flame : Low-damage instant cast that was on a separate spell school (Shadowflame) and extended the duration of Unstable Affliction

Demon/Fel armor : Armors that increased armor or increased healing taken

Shadowflame : To slow enemies in a cone in front of the caster

Soulburn : Consumed a soul shard to empower a specific ability, such as demonic circle, healthstone or to instantly summon a pet.

Although not an ability, I still miss it: Snapshotting DoTs

64 Likes

Feedback from playing afflock through Bastion.

Malefic Rupture
The biggest change to affliction is the addition of Malefic Rupture as the shard spender. Overall, I like the feel of rupture as it relates to the PvE rotation, particularly paired with Drain Soul. Dot up, spend with rupture, drain as filler, refresh as necessary, execute with drain to refill shards. Rotationally it feels good, but I agree with earlier posters that the damage output of Rupture with respect to the dots feels a bit spiky for affliction’s DoT theme. Perhaps increase the dot damage and reduce the bolt damage. Or if you don’t want to buff the dots, give rupture a mage ignite or DK epidemic effect. Again, the spot in rotation feels very good, just make it feel more like a DoT booster than a burst nuke.

Doom
Repeating earlier posts, Doom feels worthless in its current iteration. It simply takes too long to be usable on trash, and doesn’t hit hard enough to feel worth casting on larger mobs. Doom needs to have a reduced base duration (30 seconds MAX) or some ongoing debuff to provide a benefit before the tick. Otherwise I’ll never use it on trash, and instead pick weakness/tongues on bosses.

Writhe in Agony
Similar to the problem with Doom, it simply takes too long for Agony to ramp up outside boss fights: the mobs die too quickly. By contrast, the infinite corruption talent is good on long fights (no need to refresh) but also provides an up-front damage bonus to make it valuable for trash. Writhe in Agony needs to have a faster ramp up to justify use outside boss fights.

Tongue Tied
I like the idea, but it probably fits better as a PvP talent. It is too situational to have any value in PvE.

Unpruning
I like having Weakness and Tongues back. I don’t imagine ever using Recklessness in its current state. Corruption doesn’t fit in demo/destro in its current form, so I’d probably never put it on my action bar in those specs (but no harm done having it extra). Any chance we can get Curse of Elements to alternatively provide the Chaos Brand debuff? It was ours first!

Pet Summoning
I understand increasing the summon time in combat, to make pet death more punishing. But it’s too much of a pain when preparing/switching between fights. Any chance you can keep the 3 year cast time in combat, but revert it to the shorter cast time out of combat?

Scouring Tithe
I’ve only played warlock so far, and obviously haven’t played any other covenants yet, so I can only comment on this spell in isolation. It fits decently in affliction because it buffs malefic rupture, but for the other specs it just feels like a random long cd nuke. The soul shard refund doesn’t really feel worth it at the cost of a double cooldown. As affliction the cooldown reset almost always feels better than the shard proc (numbers aside). Maybe instead of shards: affliction will spread some dots on kill, demo will trigger a short duration summon on kill, destro will…do something thematic. Maybe that one fits ok with shards.
Ironically, tithe plays similarly to how I would want Doom to play. It’s a long cd ability that I’ll ignore on trash if I’m feeling lazy, but it has an on-kill bonus. For bosses and elites, the 20-30 second spike damage is long enough to feel different, but not too long to be boring/worthless.

18 Likes

As someone who plays demonology as their main spec in retail, here are some of the things that I would like to see improved from the current alpha iteration.

  1. Baleful invocations soul shard effect should be added as either a talent or baseline. The effect makes the rotation especially the burst feel more fluid.

  2. Please consider returning Fel Armor and Demon Armor as baseline abilities for all specs. These abilities have been an iconic part of the warlock toolkit since vanilla. Having these two abilities to choose from makes the class feel better as a whole by changing how we take or mitigate certain types of damage. they also add to the utility/effectiveness of the class.

  3. I like having doom and corruption back baseline but doom takes too long to do damage and will not be used in any instances except for long boss fights. Perhaps lowering to something closer to every 15-20 seconds would make it worth using in regular combat. As for corruption, having a 2 second cast time makes it hard to fit in an already cast-time heavy spec. This negative is even worse for pvp which demonology already doesn’t perform to the levels of the other two specs.

  4. Please consider bringing back Demonwrath as an AoE filler spell. My thoughts on how this could work is making it do damage around the lock’s current main demon rather than around all demons. Having the ability to cast DW increased the skill cap of the class when it came to doing damage on the move, popping people out of stealth, and knowing when to stop using shadowbolt and start using demonwrath.

  5. A possible idea to make demo closer to viable in arena is to add an honor talent that makes demonic tyrant an instant cast ability. There is still counter play to the tyrant via line of sight, interrupts, stuns, and banish. Infernal for destro is instant and demon soul for affi/destro is instant; i don’t see why using an honor talent to make tyrant instant would be too strong compared to those other cooldowns.

  6. The addition of choosing between the curses feels good to have back. Some may not seem useful in every case but having them does increase how well someone can play in certain situations (e.g. Using CoReck to increase an arena partners burst by 5% or CoTongues ability to slow enemies casts.)

28 Likes

I promise to come back and post a fully fleshed out set of feedback, but here’s a few quick bullet points, regarding Demonology Lock specifically:

Overall, the current gameplay feels like we have ALL the drawback of a DoT class, yet NONE of the advantages of one. From another angle: The Spec requires extensive, long setup / build up, yet the payout is not instant nor does it feel exciting.

  • We are the ONLY DPS spec with no baseline instant cast, non-proc based damage spell

  • We are the ONLY DPS spec with no baseline interrupt (using Fel Puppy means self-gimping which no other spec has to suffer)

  • Our spellbooks are plagued with hard-casts, when in 2020 WOW, the only hard-cast spells should be either filler/resource builders, or those with big, exciting payoff. A few examples:

  • Summon Demonic Tyrant / Nether Portal should not be hard-cast, these are burst CDs that require extensive previous setup AND follow-up maneuver to capitalize already

  • HoG should not be hard-cast, it effectively is a non-spammable DoT AND is already a prerequisite for our baseline AOE

  • NONE of the 4 Covenant abilities looks particularly game-changing, yet ALL of them have hard-cast time, why?

  • Shadowfury, our emergency “oh sh1” button, should NOT have to be hard-cast

  • Corruption, added back in Shadowlands, is a mediocre DoT, does not interact with rest of our rotation or our mastery, and needs to be hard-cast? NO Warlock has had to hard-cast it at level 14+ since 2004!

Having a few highly-SITUATIONAL Curses back does NOT solve any of the the Spec’s current issue. And if giving us baseline Demonic Circle is the only thing in store for Demonology come Shadowlands, I honestly dread the next 2.5 years of my WoW life. (On the topic of Demonic Circle, it is very nice to have it baseline. But Tongue Tied IS A PVP TALENT and YOU KNOW IT. Here is hoping it is just a placeholder)

Will come back to post more cohesive thoughts.

56 Likes

Hello Everyone!

I am thankful and honored to be part of the Shadowlands Alpha. I have compiled my thoughts and feelings of Warlock so far and here they are.

DESTRUCTION

Summoning Warlock Pet Now 6 Seconds:

Summoning A Warlock Pet (Imp/Void Walker/etc) now takes 6 seconds to summon, increased from 2.5 seconds currently in retail.

How long it takes to summon a pet on retail has always felt fine. This change however I feel is just too long and would be an unwanted annoyance to a raid team as no one wants to sit around and wait when they could just get right into their next pull quicker.

The other big issue with Warlock pets having a six second cast time is that it makes it difficult for Warlocks to switch pets during boss fights. On Retail if a Warlock needs to interrupt, we would switch from our Imp to the Fel Hunter, get the interrupts we need to get, then switch back to Imp. On Shadowlands that’s going to make thing’s a lot more difficult and tedious in both raids and M+.

Fire And Brimstone Talent:

Love the change to Fire and Brimstone Talent that it now generates 2 shard fragments. That’s one of the changes to Fire and Brimstone that we had been asking for. However, since it’s damage is still a bit on the weaker side, I can’t see myself taking it as a talent in Raids or M+ over Cataclysm since not only does Cataclysm do a lot of damage, but it also applies immolate to all the targets in it’s circle. There is just so much value there since now all your targets have Immolate and it saves on time applying the dot, as well as you are gaining shards from the ticking immolates as well. Fire and Brimstone I could see being used a bit more if it’s damage wasn’t so low. If it didn’t share the same talent row as Cataclysm, which is fantastic in Single Target and AOE) it’s just not worth taking as it stands right now.

Corruption:

If Corruption for Destruction was an instant cast spell I could see it being used in our rotations quite a fair bit. However because it has a cast time to it, doesn’t do anything that helps generate soul fragments and isn’t too powerful in its current form, I cannot see it being used by Destruction Warlocks at all at this time. It’s far more beneficial to use other abilities such as another cast of Incinerate or applying another immolate to a target then spend time casting Corruption. Currently Corruption isn’t applied to a target that is affected by Havoc either right now on the Alpha (this could be a bug) but even still with Destruction Warlocks not able to fit in as many abilities into Havoc windows now due to the lack of haste/azerite abilities, there is little to no reason to apply the Corruption dot on a target over our other spells. If Corruption could somehow generate Soul Fragments, then it would be worth using.

Destruction currently has no spells or abilities that reduce the Cooldown of Infernal. Maybe Corruption could reduce it’s cooldown in some way? Or maybe If adding Corruption made your next Incinerate instant cast could be very cool.

Doom:

Doom takes 50+ seconds for it to go off and do damage. As it stands right now I’ve not been using Doom while questing in Alpha at all because everything dies before Doom even goes off. In Raids and M+ I am having a difficult time seeing Doom gain all that value, unless it’s a target that will be up for a large period of time. For Doom to be valued it will need to either do a LARGE amount of damage when it goes off, or does worthwhile ticking damage every 10-15 seconds of it’s duration before going off.

The Return Of Warlock Curses:

Curse of Weakness and Curse of Recklessness can only be applied by one Warlock at a time, so if raids want both of those curses on Raid Bosses, then Raids need two Warlocks. Not so much an issue but just something to keep in mind as Raids are already going to want to stack with certain classes and specs to get as many buffs and benefits as possible.

Tongue Tied Talent:

Tongue Tied will not be used in PVE situations and should be moved to the PVP talents. It serves no purpose in PVP. Instead of it being on the level 40 talent, I’d rather have Burning Rush moved from tier 30 and to replace Tongue Tied at level 40. Level 30 for Warlock Talents are full of armor and shield talents that keep Warlocks alive, but Burning Rush is there. If Burning Rush is on rank 40 instead of Tongue Tied it would make both rows more interesting and compelling.

Destruction Azerite - Legendaries - Tier Sets Of The Past We Would Like To Return As Maybe Future Shadowlands Legendaries/Future Tier Sets:

Legendary’s Of Old:

  • Lessons Of Space Time
    Equip: While you have a Dimensional Rift open, all of your damage is increased by 10%

  • Sin’dor Spite
    Equip: For 25 seconds after casting Summon Infernal, you and your minions deal 15% increased damage.

  • Feretory Of Souls
    Equip: Casting a damaging Fire spell has a 6% chance to generate a Soul Shard

  • Odr, Shaw Of Ymirjar
    Equip: Enemies marked by your Havoc take 15% increased damage from your single target spells.

  • The Master Harvester
    Equip: Each Soul Shard you spend has a (Destruction 6%) chance to grant you a Soul Harvest for 8 seconds.
    (Note: Since Soul Harvest is no longer in the game, maybe this could reduce the cooldown of our 3 minute cooldowns instead)

Azerite Of Old:

  • Flashpoint
    When your Immolate deals periodic damage to a target above 80% health, gain (X) Haste for 10 sec.
  • Rolling Havoc
    Each time your spells duplicate to a Havoc target, gain (X) Intellect for 15 sec. This effect stacks.
  • Crashing Chaos
    Your Summon Infernal’s cooldown is reduced by 15 seconds, and summoning your infernal increased the damage of your next 8 Chaos Bolts by (X).
  • Chaotic Inferno
    Chaos Bolt deals (X) additional damage, and has a 25% chance to make your next Incinerate Instant.

Tier Sets Of Old:

  • Nighthold Set: Chaos Bolt Reduces the cast time of your next Chaos Bolt.

  • Nighthold Set: Conflag gains an additional charge and has a 2 second cooldown.

  • ToS Set: Incinerate has a 100% chance to generate one additional Soul Shard Fragment

  • ToS Set: Chaos Bolt gains full benefit from Mastery

  • Antorus Set: Chaos Bolt deals an additional 12% of it’s overall damage to it’s target over 4 seconds.

These Legendaries/Azerite Talents/Tier Set Pieces returning as Legendaries or future Tiers in Shadowlands would all be welcome additions to Destruction Warlock as they all added a unique and fun playstyle that worked well with the spec. Even if some of these could be added as baseline or find a spot on the current talent tree, like the Lessons Of Space-Time portal ability, that helped Destructions mobility as we could cast it while moving, or even Flashpoint as a baseline talent as it changes our playstyle in a positive way, would all be fantastic.

AFFLICTION

Malefic Rapture:

Malefic Rapture currently has no distance on the spell, making it so you can cast it from basically anywhere and it will affect a target that you have a dot on. If you combo this with Absolute Corruption, the talent that keeps Corruption on a target permanently, it becomes game breaking. Range should be added to Malefic Rapture to prevent insane combos like that and things that could break the game.

Demonology

Demonic Tyrant losing 5 shard generation drastically slows down the spec and makes cool down seem far less impactful. The return of Baleful Invocation of some form would help Demonology so much.

24 Likes

Everything I wanted to say is summed up in Archanfels post about demo.

  • Doom feels useless - it either needs a shorter overall time or more of a dot feel
  • Bastion Ability feels clunky and not worth the cast time - should be a dot , but the cooldown time feels okay
  • Corruption feels very out of place - having to cast it and trying to add something else into the rotation just feels wrong. If its going to be part of the rotation why cant it be a dot since we already have so much else to deal with?
  • Summon Tyrant cast time is obnoxious. Why does it need a cast time?
  • Curse of Tongues - useful if im going to have warmode on, but thats about it. i’m fine with that, but considering how obnoxious doom is right now the curses just feel bleh to me.

So far that’s the only feedback I have. It mostly comes down to so much stuff with cast time on top of everything else with cast time. Why? I like the cast for Shadowbolt or doombolt and HoG - but adding in even more just seems overwhelming and annoying. I know demo doesnt need to be another version of aff but some of those being dots would be nice :stuck_out_tongue:

10 Likes

I’ve only done one level as an Affliction Lock so far so my thoughts could change.

I feel that all I am doing now is throwing a few DOTs and spamming shadow bolt. That was never what affliction was for me.

Unstable affliction:
I am really saddened by this change. I could possibly see one UA per target but one per the whole mob? Affliction for me was best in Legion, throw your dots on, spam UA and Maleficent grasp the target down while still holding plenty of dots on the other targets.

Malefic Rapture:
I’m curious to see how this plays out the further I get, more difficult mobs and dungeons. We did desperately need a good AOE spell, ive never been a huge fan of the seeds. Let’s see how this plays out.

As others states, Doom right now doesn’t feel important not warranted. Maybe cut the timer down by half?

I know things can still change I just felt like today I spent more time with shadow bolt than I did anything else.

7 Likes

I played through the Bastion quest line splitting my time between destro and affliction. Here is my feedback:

General

  • Curses: I didn’t touch them once. I know people are excited to have them back but I personally don’t get it. I’d be happy to not have them there, but I realize I might be in the minority. The only one I’m passionate about is Doom. I’d love to see this ability disappear forever. It’s never made any sense to me. It’s never seemed fun. I think warlocks would be better without it.

  • Corruption: I see it’s on all specs, and again, I didn’t use it at all outside of affliction. I think it’s fine to have it there just as a sort of homage to a more Classic approach to abilities, but I don’t see any value in the cast time as it currently exists, and frankly, I’m happy about that.

Affliction

In general, this new rotation with Malefic Rapture is really fun! I love this new spec. I love MR is based on the number of dots, so that it can either be concentrated on a single target or divided on multiple targets. Two notes about the new MR rotation:

  • Drain Soul should be baseline. Shadowbolt feels awkward and I think players will either always take Drain Soul, or if something else is numerically better, they will resent having to deny themselves one they really want. Making it baseline will help people love this spec

  • I think there should be an aspect to MR that amplifies damage in AoE. In the current iteration, there is an argument to be made that since MR does dmg per dot, you might as well dot up one target cause the output is the same. And I get that a pack will provide opportunities for spreading dots through things like SoC and Vile Taint, but I think people will still have the mental block. Even is some nominal amount of splash damage happened from MR, it would feel better in AoE, and would also provide an opportunity for something more graphical.

Overall it’s a really fun spec though. I like to see you doubling down on dot management for this spec. It’s what affliction should be and there are two other specs to choose from for those that don’t like that play style.

Destruction

This has been my main spec in BfA. I agree that the spec is generally in a good place and doesn’t require any major rework, but I do think there is room for improvement.

  • Infernals: I really liked the way that infernals work in 8.3 with the essences that make the cool down shorter and the chance to proc extra infernals. I would like to see some of this continue on in Shadowlands, either as baked into the class or as talents.

  • Fire and Brimstone: I very strongly, perhaps most strongly of all the feedback I have to give, strongly feel that this needs to be taken out of talents and made baseline as a toggle like it used to be. I think the current version of the talent is fine, but we will never choose it over Cataclysm. And that’s sad, because I used to love that sometimes a situation would call for FnB + Rain of Fires as fast as you could make them. It was never the default AoE, but it had its uses. It was just really fun, and right now it’s been essentially a dead talent for several years at this point. Making Cataclysm baseline might also help with this, but I would prefer to see FnB go baseline because the beauty of the ability is being able to start a pull with it and then turn it off once a few mobs die.

Channel Demonfire: I like this ability, but I just have a suggestion about the visual effect. The Demonic Portals that used to randomly appear from the artifact weapon in Legion was not popular, but visually really cool. I would suggest repurposing those visuals from Legion that are no longer used to replace the current visuals of Channel Demonfire, which predate the graphical overhaul of Warlock spells and now looks out of place.

That’s all I have for now. Thank you for your hard work. Shadowlands is looking pretty great!

16 Likes

Here is some initial feedback that I have after reaching 53 and running The Necrotic Wake multiple times. I have also created a Google Doc that I will update frequently with ideas and concerns which I will attach at the bottom.

General

-3 Minute Darkglare/Infernal CD’s are inherently limiting in multiple scenarios compared to classes with less powerful but shorter CD’s like Stormkeeper or even Demonology with Demonic Tyrant. With the changes to Unstable Affliction I feel it is pretty safe to consider moving our Darkglare CD to 2 minutes from 3. Doing so gives us a better damage profile in both ST, Cleave and AOE (Mythic +) based encounters. It is also not as overpowered at 2 minutes with UA being limited to 1 iteration. This also gives us the ability to pair it with our 2 minute Dark Soul cooldown and not wait an entire minute for Darkglare to come off CD. A 3 to 2 minute change goes a long way in help the overall fluidity of Affliction in nearly every aspect of the game.

-6 second pet summons are restrictive when swapping pets mid fight in both plus and raids alike. There are times where I want/need a Felhunter to interrupt (Like Il’gynoth) and then swap to my imp later. The same can be said for mythic + with Obelisks/Dispels/Purges/Interrupts/Voidwalker Taunts. 6 seconds is too restrictive. Potentially a return to Fel Domination or Flames of Xoroth with a short CD would be worthwhile.

-Corruption going baseline for Demonology and Destruction is exciting however it feels underwhelming and a bit lackluster. Having a 2 second cast time makes it unusable in multi-target scenarios as it takes 8 seconds to apply 4 dots. Barring the damage being buffed to an extreme I feel Corruption will only be used as Affliction where it is instant cast and works with the specs overall design/CD’s. Working in some kind of resource generation like partial shards for Destro or a chance to spawn an imp per tick for Demo could be a way to make the spell relevant outside of affliction.

-Curse of Reck and Weakness if working as intended require 2 warlocks per raid as they are applicable to bosses. Stacking with other class buffs leaves roughly 11 raid spots. This is very limiting due to the defined raid size that Mythic brings. Mythic Nzoth for example needed a certain amount of immunities to deal with Thought Harvester soaks. Requiring certain comps while also introducing a handful of new class specific utility spells (Reck, Weakness, Windfury) might be a bit too limiting for a mythic 20-man structure.

Affliction

-Darkglare as a CD does not bring anywhere near the power level it does in BFA currently but still brings with it a 3 minute CD. With the non-stacking changes to UA, Darkglares baseline Eye Beam damage should be increased from 10% to 20% or so.

-Deathbolt feels much weaker as well due to the changes with UA not stacking and how it affects Darkglare. I am not sure of the current plan that the development team has for DB but it most likely needs to be revisited with UA in its current state.

-Malefic Rapture being our main Soul Shard spender feels like it is more AOE based. Potentially having a more single target based spender that amplifies our DOT tick rate on the mob that has Unstable Affliction applied would fit the single target toolkit better. Soul Wrack was an ability that was mentioned in the first class changes post which did just that but is not currently present in this build of Alpha.

-With Unstable Affliction being limited to 1 application overall I propose a change to have UA deal a baseline amount of damage to the mob but also have its damage increased by “X” which is based off how many dots you have ticking total. There would need to be some kind of cap on the “increased damage” from external DOTs but this fits the current direction of affs play-style while also further complementing its toolkit in mythic + and council style fights. I feel Haunt and UA are too similar at the moment and this would help differentiate between the two.

-If a change was to be made to Haunt in an attempt to further differentiate between the two abilities then Haunt could be moved to a much longer CD (potentially 30 seconds) but also bring with it a higher % damage amplification. This would give aff certain windows of higher on-demand priority damage when warranted which plays into the current version of affliction.

-Nightfall: I would like to see the proc chance increased for having Corruption applied to multiple enemies with a diminishing return past 3 or so targets. I believe it would go a long way in improving Nightfalls viability in council/cleave based fights.

Destruction

-Fire and Brimstones baseline increase to shard generation I feel is not the main issue with the ability. The 60% damage reduction that it deals to surrounding enemies is too limiting. The fact that it also shares a talent row with Cataclysm (Our best AOE and ST ability) is another issue in itself. A buff to Fire and Brimstones damage dealt to surrounding targets would make it a contender against Cataclysm in AOE based settings as it would both be a DPS increase and fuel even more ROF/Havoc windows with the recent shard generation buff. I feel long term though that having Fire and Brimstone on the same row as Cataclysm will be the bigger issue. If the development team is willing to explore mixing up the “pure aoe” talent rows then moving F&B to a different row, thus allowing stronger AOE and ST talent combinations, would be the best idea.

-Infernal being on a 3 minute CD is very limiting when it comes to a wide array of scenarios. With the loss of VOP and Crashing Chaos (which enable the 2 minute infernal build) in Shadowlands, Destruction is once again in a concerning spot. Our damage output is too low outside of out Infernal window and the loss of Rolling Havoc/Flashpoint make this an even larger issue. I propose the introduction of a new talent that reduces the cooldown of our infernal by “X” seconds for each soul shard spent or Chaos Bolt cast. I feel that Soul Shards
spent is superior due to Rain of Fire being cast at times in AOE scenarios.A talent swap with an ability in the 15 or 25 row would be most efficient here as the 35 row is currently AOE based with 45 and 50 already having impactful talent choices. The effect could also be baked into Chaos Bolt or Rain of Fire baseline which would be a huge quality of life change. If the issue of our infernal being a 3 minute CD is not addressable through some kind of CD reduction then I think our damage outside of Infernal needs to be brought up a bit passively to compensate for the 3 minute profile. At the same time a few changes to Immolation Aura/Grimoire of Supremacy could be in order if the CD was brought down to 2 minutes baseline without shifting talents. Having a guaranteed 2 minute Infernal CD goes a long way for us both in Mythic + as well as ST/Cleave based raid encounters.

-Shadowburn returning as a baseline ability or an ability that we can use in execute like expansions past would both cater to the “returning ability” side of Shadowlands as well as help round out Destructions overall toolkit in similar fashion to Shadow Word: Death for Priests. This would also “free up” a talent slot for an Infernal CD reduction based talent. Destruction’s toolkit is the one that I feel is most “complete” currently in Alpha but it could still use a bit of tweaking.

-Fel Flame is an ability that I feel would complement Destructions toolkit well while also working to fix its lack of mobility. Out of all three Warlock specs, Destruction is hands down the least mobile. We currently have only Conflagrate and Rain of Fire that we can cast while moving. Conflagrate is sadly an ability with only two charges and (roughly) an 11 second CD. Rain of Fire is an AOE spell that costs 3 shards which we don’t want to cast on a good portion of encounters due to how expensive it is. We are also losing the “Chaotic Inferno” azerite trait which gave us the chance to proc an instant cast incinerate. I feel that Fel Flame or a version of Searing Pain (both iconic) that we can cast on the move would be a welcome addition to our arsenal and greatly help alleviate the mobility issues that Destruction has.

-Hellfire would be a solid option to improve Destructions AOE toolkit and also is an iconic Warlock ability that we have not seen for a while. I feel it would be a welcome return regardless of it being for just Destruction or all three. Its high baseline damage but punishing nature makes is a strong kiss/curse ability in mythic + and other AOE based encounters.

Demonology

-Curse of Doom could be reworked to have a chance (1% or so) to summon a doomguard whenever it deals damage. Having it be the actual killing blow on a mob/boss in nearly any setting it too unrealistic and makes the ability essentially irrelevant. Improved Curse of Doom also benefits from this change in addition to being more thematically suiting for Demo as a whole. The “auto enslave” clause on ICOD is mostly irrelevant due to it being so hard to actually summon one in its current form but if changed to the aforementioned version, becomes much more relevant.

-Demonology without Baleful Invocation or some kind of Soul Shard generating ability feels very lackluster and incomplete. I would like to see Baleful Invocation either return as a passive ability tied directly into our Demonic Tyrant or a talent potentially in place of Inner Demons or Summon Vilefiend. They both are (mostly) single target based talents so the swap feels natural. If Demonology goes live in its current form without Baleful Invocation the spec unfortunately will suffer greatly with the loss of both Explosive Potential and Baleful Invocation.

-Demonology needs a baseline interrupt that does not require us to change to something besides the Felguard. We are directly punished for doing so by losing talents such as Soul Strike, Demonic Strength as well as the bonus damage the Felguard deals baseline as Demonology. Grimoire: Felhunter is also an option granting us the ability to interrupt while also having it tied into Demo’s baseline toolkit.

-Kalamazi

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As promised, here is the (hopefully) more cohesive feedback specifically for Demonology Warlock (the Spec). This feedback is drafted based on the current state of the Spec, which closely resembles that of Live, given the early stage of Alpha but also the Developers’ apparent satisfaction with its state and the implied minimal change planned (which is very concerning).

As a Warlock player since 2004, and a primarily Demo Spec one throughout the years, I am struggling to find fun in the Spec’s current game play mechanism, and am not seeing improvement, if not further detriment, in Shadowlands. “Clunky” is really the first word that comes in mind but given how overused the word is, I will try summarize my issues another way: The Spec’s gameplay requires extensive, long drawn out setup/buildup, yet does not have prompt nor satisfactory payout .

At high level the Spec is centered around a build-and-spend resourcing system where we mostly use Shadow Bolt and instant-proc’d Demonbolt to build Soul Shards, and then spend them on damaging spells e.g. HoG, Call Dreadstalkers etc. Many other DPS specs function in similar fashion, but the Spec’s issue is that the build AND the spend both take long, while the spend is delayed and spread out, overall making the Spec slow, inept at adapting changes in fight (e.g. target switch) and denied of satisfactory moment.

Some examples of these:

  • We have to start any fight hard-cast SB to build up resources, instant DB do not happen later in the fight and may not always be available due to fight mechanics or bad RNG, resulting in more hard-cast SB; and then we have to hard-cast HOG, or hard-cast Call DS (instant only when talented AND proc’d), and then wait for imps/dogs to be summoned and start attacking, and the damages are spread across multiple minions and multiple attacks yet limited to single target. We are essentially a DoT class, except almost all other DoTs are instant cast and can be applied to multiple targets where ours cannot.

  • Our baseline AOE, Implosion, requires resource building through hard-cast, hard-cast HOG, sacrifices all our imps i.e. a significant portion of our single target damage, requires a target, is limited to a smaller radius, and requires this minimum-3-casts sequence (more like 4-5 because SB only gives 1 shard) in between each damage chance, leaving us prone to miss AOE opportunity window.

  • Come Shadowlands, we now also have baseline Corruption, which has to be hard-cast (I assume this is a mistake because this spell has NEVER been hard-casted by any lv 14+ Warlock since 2004) and is only a mediocre DoT, that does not interact with rest of our spells nor mastery.

  • Taking a step further, Corruption and Curse of Doom, as they are now, are effectively trap spells for uninitiated players. CoD, even talented with 30 sec duration, are not practical in WoW 2020’s combat environment.

  • Our baseline Burst CD, Summon Demonic Tyrant, has to be hard-cast. These are supposed to be exciting moments in gameplay, and they already require extensive setup AND follow-up maneuver to capitalize (vs. most other DPS specs’ “press and burst”), hard-casting themselves really are not warranted.

  • Even Shadowfury, our standard “get out of sh1t emergency button”, for some unknown reason, has to be hard-cast.

  • Lastly, let us look at the primary example of the Spec’ plight: Nether Portal. On paper, this talent symbolizes the pinnacle of the Spec’ fantasy: pouring a large, mixed demonic army on one’s enemy. In execution, it plays out like: You hard-cast to build out 5 shards, you 2.5 sec hard-cast this spell, you alternate hard-cast Shadow Bolt / instant DB and hard-cast HOG, you wait for minions to be summoned and engage your target, finally you hard-cast Tyrant hoping it empowers maximal numbers of minions. All that setup, hoping for the stars to align, for a glorified, mostly single-target DoT that can be easily messed up by timing / positioning / target swap.

You might have lost count of how many times I have typed the word “hard-cast” (I didn’t, 18 so far). That’s right, another angle our long, drawn-out build-and-spend mechanism is the FACT that the Spec is the ONLY DPS specs WITHOUT ANY baseline, non-proc based, instant damage dealing spells (even Shadow Priest has SW: Pain doing spammable initial damage). If not properly talented, a Demo Lock’s best bet to quickly interrupt enemy flag capturing or take out a minor target might as well be pulling out their wand / staff. Imagine how bad that feels. A counter argument would be utilizing our Felguard pet. But being refrained to single target and not being nearly as mobile as say BM hunter pets, our loyal demon buddy simply cannot fill the gap. This staggering weakness is covered up in larger group content, but is felt strongly in PVP, Solo and smaller group gameplay (alternatively, it locks many Spec players’ talent choice to Bomber, Soul Strike etc.)

I felt a particular sense of dread / despair, when I saw that ALL FOUR of Warlock Covenant abilities are, you guessed it, hard-cast… (and not particularly game-changing nor addressing our weakness)

On the topic of being the ONLY DPS spec, as many, MANY others have mentioned, the Spec is also the ONLY one without a baseline interrupt. But this is a long and repeated topic. I completely don’t understand nor agree with the developers’ stubbornness here but will let other argue this point.

Comparing the Spec’s current plight to its MoP design, which many long-time player enjoyed, the contrast reflects the issue: It was still a build-and-spend mechanism, but the spending part is so much more exciting and rewarding in the MoP version in that Meta was a controllable burst period that saw quick and material payout: Demonbolt was spammable and Hellfire Aura (maybe wrong name) was instant (auto-channeled) and both hit hard and hit right away, rewarding good gameplay by dumping built-up resources at the right opportunity window. We also had instant, spammable Fel Flame and instant-cast HOG.

The quick fixes would be making some combinations of HOG/Call DS/Tyrant instant-cast (ideally all 3). Corruption (if it is to stay) and Shadowfury have no reason to be hard-cast whatsoever. There is the more fundamental issue of “payout being drawn out and not exciting” that requires more bottom-up rethinking that I cannot offer now.

Note none of this is about numbers but about the mechanics. Apply a 10% damage aura will likely make the Spec raid-viable or even desirable, but addresses none of the issues mentioned. Please please help make the Demonology Warlock “FUN” to play again.

Before I close out, switch gear to talk a bit about class visual and fantasy.

First, I want to fully acknowledge that the Spec is actually in one of the better position in terms of having class fantasy presented: The Warlock specific transmogs are distinct and highly stylized, the class has a unique spell cosmetic customization (the green fire), the Spec can summon a bunch of demons utilizing various creature models. The Felguard has a mini-transmog system in that we can collect and customize weapon for it. These are all GREAT, but I believe even more can be done.

Many Spec players still mock ourselves as “Imp masters” rather than demonologist. The imps, both visually and damage-wise, make up a significant portion of our gameplay, while being the lowest, least exciting variant of the in-game demon family. But does it have to be this way?

Consider a cosmetic system where your “imps” are replaced with random or customizable “lessor demons” e.g. different types of imps, variety of demon hounds, Mo’args; your “Dreadstalkers” replaced with “regular demons” e.g. Succubus, Shivans, Observers; And your Felguard OR Demonic Tyrant with “major demons” e.g. Nathrezim, Annihilan, Ered’ruin, Man’ari.

You already have all the models in game, the above requires minimal new art work and does not change game play whatsoever (but it should be changed, per previous section), yet it will bring so much life and FUN into the Spec like never before.

Thank you anyone who read this much and thank you any CMs/Devs for seriously considering this.

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Ey Kalamazi, super big fan of the channel, keep up the good work m8.

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Thanks I appreciate it!

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This post is primarly going to be about Destruction, as I haven’t gotten around to the other two specs.

Having Demonic Circle back is great, but there are several more abilities that need un-pruning as well.
Howl of Terror needs to return as an instant-cast AoE Fear spell for all specs.
Nether Ward needs to return as a baseline defensive ability for all specs.
Mortal Coil needs to be placed back in the spellbook as a baseline ability for all specs.
Hellfire needs to return as a baseline AoE. It would make sense for Demonology to use as their AoE spell.
Summon Demon spells still cost a Soul Shard, despite having double the cast time they had in BFA. This is, frankly, too much. Just remove the Soul Shard cost. Hunters and shaman and mages don’t use their DPS resources to summon their combat pets, so there is no reason that we should have to.

I’m probably forgetting some other important spells that we’re still missing.

My thoughts on Destruction

I absolutely loved Destruction back in Mists of Pandaria and Warlords of Draenor. It was about as perfect as a DPS spec could get. The pacing was great, the risk/reward on Chaos Bolt was good, the payoff for being able to cast Chaos Bolt was extremely satisfying, and the tactical options presented by its array of utilities and CC spells as well as Ember Tap made it a deeply fulfilling spec to play.

Then Legion completely gutted Destruction and made it not fun to play at all, while BfA reluctantly reassembled it into half-baked mishmash that only superficially resembles its former glory. Better than Legion, but that’s not saying much. Compared to MoP/WoD, BFA Destro is pretty awful.
Shadowlands Destro is almost identical to BFA Destro, and as such it has a lot of problems that MoP and WoD Destro did not, but it also has additional weaknesses to counterbalance strengths that just aren’t there anymore.

The problems with modern Chaos Bolt

The core of the Destruction spec is, of course, Chaos Bolt. Almost all of the problems Destro has today are directly related to Chaos Bolt and how it has been brutally nerfed since its glory days. Chaos Bolt has seen a lot of iteration over the years, and its absolute finest days were without question during Mists of Pandaria and Warlords of Draenor.

Back in those days, Chaos Bolt was very expensive in terms of resources, had a huge opportunity cost in the form of an extremely long 4-second cast time, but it dealt a proportionately massive amount of damage per cast. It was enough to one-shot any non-elite outdoor mob.

Being able to cast Chaos Bolt used to be a huge, important moment, and it was extremely satisfying.

But it’s not huge or satisfying or powerful anymore. There are three primary reasons for this:

  1. Destruction’s cooldowns are too strong. When you line up your Infernal, and Grimoire of Supremacy, and Dark Soul, you get a string of Chaos Bolts whose damage ramps up and up into some moderately impressive numbers. But the main thing is that you can spam Chaos Bolt a lot, so you do a ton of damage in a 30 second window. Those numbers are quite good. However…
  2. Chaos Bolt is too weak the rest of the time. When your cooldowns are not active - which is to say, all the time when you’re out questing - Chaos Bolt damage is pathetic. It’s barely enough to do 30% of a non-elite mob’s health. This is far too little damage for what should be a powerful nuke, and certainly not enough to justify its high cost or live up to its impressively flashy visual effect.

My rotation on the moths and horses in Bastion looks like this: Chaos Bolt -> Conflagrate -> Conflagrate -> Chaos Bolt -> Dead. It takes about 6 or 7 seconds, and it’s pretty effective. But now I’m completely out of resources and Conflagrate is on cooldown, so the next pull consists entirely of Immolate and Incinerate spam. This does not feel good. It would feel a lot better if that downtime spent generating enough Embers to cast a Chaos Bolt was counterbalanced by Chaos Bolt dealing enough damage to actually feel rewarding.

CB has another huge weakness, too, that I feel the numbers department tends to overlook:

  1. Despite having low damage, frequent availability, and low cast time, Chaos Bolt still has a very high opportunity cost in the form of Chaos damage. This means that whenever Chaos Bolt gets interrupted, you’re locked out of all your spells for the duration of the interrupt. This is a huge weakness that seems to be completely ignored.

This would have made sense back when CB was a powerful, scary nuke - it would have made CB an extremely high-risk, theoretically high-reward spell in PvP and PvE alike. But Chaos Bolt is not a powerful or scary nuke anymore, yet it still has a very high opportunity cost that only came about because it was a powerful and scary nuke back in WoD.

In an ideal world, a single Chaos Bolt would be enough to one-shot any non-elite mob, especially during the later stages of questing through an expansion when the player is suffering from mobs that outscale their item level by a huge margin. In theory, that entire issue of mob scaling has been resolved with the new questing experience, but since we can’t play through that to test it yet, I am operating under the assumption that it will still be an issue in Shadowlands questing.

So how do I propose to fix Chaos Bolt? The answer is, basically, Return Destruction to its MoP or WoD incarnation.

That may sound like a lazy answer, so I’ll outline the details of what needs to change below:

Burning Embers need to return as the resource for Destruction warlocks. They were functionally similar to the Soul Shard Fragments we have now, but they were more thematically appropriate, looked better, and played better. Burning Embers had a maximum of 4, and regenerated or decayed to 1 when out of combat for an extended period. It took a long time to generate an Ember through Incinerate spam and Conflagrate.

Chaos Bolt cost one Ember and Shadowburn (our execute) generated 2 Embers when the target died within 5 seconds of being struck by Shadowburn.

Burning Embers also had a visual effect of setting yourself on fire, that grew more intense the more Embers you had collected. 1 Ember had no visual, 2 had a few flames, 3 had lots of flames, and 4 made you look like you were burning alive. It was great, and honestly I miss it a lot.

Incinerate and Conflagrate both need to generate fewer Embers per cast than their current Soul Shard Fragment values. It should take a bit of standing around casting to generate an Ember.

Chaos Bolt should have a high cost (1 full Burning Ember), have a long cast time (4 seconds, before haste) and deal enough damage to 1-shot any non-elite mob.

“But that’s too powerful!” you say. No, it’s not, because remember, it comes at the cost Chaos Bolt being available much less frequently, and having a very long cast time, the Chaos school (all spell schools at once) lockout, and thus extremely high opportunity cost. A lot of the time you won’t even have a single Ember to spend, thus making a powerful and scary Chaos Bolt that much more valuable when you can cast it.

Remove Grimoire of Supremacy so that raid cooldowns don’t completely and utterly overshadow the rest of our damage. Without GoSup buffing CB into the sky during its burst window, CB will have room to be hard-hitting and impactful all the time.

Backdraft hasn’t felt good since it was nerfed from 3 stacks to 1. Reverting Backdraft to its WoD incarnation where it affected the next 3 Incinerates or the next 1 Chaos Bolt would make it feel a lot better. Flashover could be reworked to reduce the number of Backdraft stacks that Chaos Bolt consumes.

Conflagrate still lacks its signature snare that it lost in Legion, and needs it back.

Shadowburn needs to return as a baseline Ember-spending execute for Destruction. Its WoD incarnation was perfectly fine and should never have been removed in Legion. As an execute spell it cost 1 Ember, dealt very high damage with a short cooldown ( I believe it was 8 or 12 seconds in WoD ), was only usable on targets below 20% health, and generated 2 full Burning Embers when the target died within 5 seconds of being struck by Shadowburn. If 2 Embers on a kill is too OP, then it could be made to only generate 1, and that would still be much better than its current incarnation.

Fire and Brimstone needs to return as a baseline spell that you toggle on or off, affecting all single-target spells while active, at the cost of reducing their damage to individual targets and giving them an Ember cost.

Rain of Fire needs to have its cost removed, and generate Embers when it hits 3 or more targets.

Ember Tap needs to return as a healing spell for Destruction. It was instant cast, cost 1 full Burning Ember - as much as a Chaos Bolt - and healed the warlock for ~15% of their health. This choice between spending your Embers on damage or survivability gave Destro a lot of tactical depth that it simply lacks now.

Havoc isn’t in too bad a place, but it could stand to have its duration extended or its damage penalty removed.

Kil’jaeden’s Cunning needs to return as a passive talent that lets the warlock freely cast Incinerate while moving.

Cataclysm needs to be given a higher base damage to make it feel like an AoE nuke as it did when it was introduced in Warlords of Draenor. Naturally, this would require increasing the cooldown to keep it balanced.

This would be a ton of work, yes, but it would absolutely be worth it to restore Destruction to the extremely fun and immensely satisfying high-burst-damage playstyle that it had in MoP and WoD.

Other Thoughts

Eradication is a boring talent that feels mandatory for raiding, but has zero impact on how your moment-to-moment gameplay actually feels. The only place its effect shows up is on the damage meters. Please just replace it with something else. Anything else.

Soul Fire doesn’t seem to have any practical value. I’m sure something could be done to make it interesting but I don’t have any particular ideas at the moment.

Inferno is still useless even with its slight buff to RoF damage. Since it only gives a tiny chance for RoF to generate Embers, it cannot hope to match Cataclysm or Fire and Brimstone in any AoE situation. If it were changed to “Increases the damage of Rain of Fire by 100%” then it might start to be compelling, but only if Rain of Fire had no cost to begin with.

The resource economy provided by the competing talents in its row just make Inferno a no-go.

Mortal Coil, as I said above, should be a baseline ability for all warlocks.

Grimoire of Supremacy - Look, this one is just too strong. You absolutely can’t raid without it. It makes CB so strong during its burst window that CB damage has to be weak the rest of the time. Please, for the love of Chaos Bolt, remove this talent so our signature nuke can be strong outside of raid cooldowns.

Grimoire of Sacrifice The randomness of the small damage proc makes this talent entirely unappealing. Instead of a damage proc, make it function more like Lone Wolf and give the warlock a flat damage increase while their demon is sacrificed.

Channel Demonfire sure is pretty, but I feel like we should be able to cast it while moving.

Dark Soul: Instability …why is this even a talent? Just put it back in the spellbook where it belongs.

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Thoughts on Affliction:

Um… not much, really. The only thing I take issue with is Malefic Rupture.

I don’t understand why it’s there or what its purpose is. It seems like it’s just an excuse to still use Soul Shards for something. In terms of actual gameplay, Aff still feels just like it did in BFA: Apply all your dots, then spam something to spend your shards.

That “DoT and then stand still spamming something forever” playstyle never appealed to me, and I was hoping it would go away in Shadowlands.

It’s kind of disappointing. I feel like Aff really doesn’t need Soul Shards as a resource and would feel better without them. Just let it be straightforward DoT spec with strong DoTs.

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