The X-45 Heartbreaker: a rant about randomness

So this is a slightly less scripted post that I haven’t really sat through and planned out all that well; consider this me venting a little bit about my least favourite time of year: the heartbreak season.

And no, I’m not talking about actual heartbreak, but the X-45 Heartbreaker mount farm (formerly known as the big love rocket).

Of all the mounts - no, not just mounts, but all the rewards in the entire game, this has to be my white whale. I have thousands of attempts on my hands, and every february I suffer burnout after my repeated failed attempts of wresting this rocket out of the Crown Chemical Co.'s hands. Every time I see someone else riding this mount, an angry, ugly beast stirs somewhere in my ancient reptilian brain, and if I see someone loot it, that selsame beast rears its head and screams internally in my head.

Okay, I’m exaggerating - the bit is over. Envy is an ugly thing, and I don’t think it’s healthy for me to obsess over this - or anyone else, for that matter. What I really want to talk about here, is rare and exclusive items.

I have been pushing for ideas such as bad luck protection and deterministic means of collecting items in some other posts here on the CC, and in so doing, the idea of ‘rarity’ and ‘exclusivity’ has come up in conversation, either here on the CC or elsewhere. It has led me to wonder, what exactly is the purpose of an item being rare and/or exclusive. I don’t really have a strong answer, to be fair, because there’s many different points of view to it.

An item may be rare to make players feel unique and special; they got something that their friends didn’t get, and so they feel unique - instead of being the exact same as someone else. It might change how you experience your playthrough compared to either someone else in your shoes, or your other different runs of that game. Or, in a game where the economy is important, it might serve the purpose of letting you earn some cash, or flex your wealth by owning all the rare, pricy items.

On to exclusivity; which is an entirely different beast. Rare items are all exclusive, but not all exclusive items are what we would call, rare. Even if 1% of players on X item, I would distinguish an item that randomly dropped to them from an item they earned through some means of achievement, such as the gladiator mounts. I also think time-locked rewards fall under this distinction, such as the now-removed mage tower artifact appearances, or the legendary scarab mount from the Opening of Ahn’qiraj. The purpose of all exclusive items is to show your work, whether that was completing something difficult, being at the right place at the right time, or a mix of both.

I’m going back to talk about the Heartbreaker now. Where does this mount fit into the whole scheme. Well, it is time-locked, does that make it an exclusive item? Sort of, I suppose. You can only get this during Love is in the Air… which requires you to participate in that festival. Which I think is good. The problem with the rocket is that it is also a rare drop, and a very rare one at that. The purpose of only being able to collect this during Love is in the Air is obvious: this is a holiday themed item, and you can try again next year if you don’t get it this time. But what about the rarity… why is this item rare? Well, the economic side to this is just non-existent, you can’t trade or sell this item. It’s not going to change the way you play the game, because it’s a cosmetic item that you unlock permanently. So that leaves, it is rare because it is meant to feel unique, for a social reason.

You are meant to feel unique and different from the others that don’t have it, because you got lucky.

I think that’s fine. You got lucky one time and that has given you a postive experience that has, at least temporarily, made you stand out in the crowd.

… But I do not think it’s fine that the players, such as myself, who sink so many hours into the game in order to try to get this item, have all their efforts invalidated by a cold and heartless (pun intended) dice roll. Let’s talk about randomness, bad luck protection and deterministic rewards.

As I have already outlined, randomness serves a purpose. Many people curse RNG and all that it stands for, but randomess is good, actually. Too much randomess is bad. When the only thing that determines whether your succeed or not is a completely random chance, that is too much RNG. Imagine if you could only defeat a boss if they dropped randomly targeted pools of fire in those exact locations, and that only happened once out of ten times - that would be terrible combat design. Think back to the weekly disappointment box, where you got a completely random item (of a set loot table) that could be completely useless, or a BiS piece of gear with sockets and tertiary stats and oh my. Let’s remind ourselves of when spell procs were completely random too, where you could get really lucky with windfury and just oneshot everything, or… deal almost no amount of damage at all. All of these examples have existed, to some degree, and have since been ‘fixed’ by reducing the amount of randomness. Boss fights have randomness in them still, but that randomness is more controlled and don’t usually soft-lock the boss fight. The Great Vault can be manipulated in your favor by allowing you to choose from a selection of items, or a pity reward if you don’t want any of them - heck, even BFA gave you currency to allow you to purchase the right Azerite armour down the line. And spell procs now have built-in protections that makes their procs much more controlled, so that they don’t go absolutely crazy, and at the same time doesn’t cause major disappointment.

These examples aren’t the same type of randomness as a specific loot drop, of course, but I’m using them to illustrate that randomness run amok is just not fun to play with. How does this apply to the Heartbreaker, and by proxy, all rare drops? It’s mostly about time investment, and fairness.

I get upset if I see someone loot the heartbreaker after I’ve put in so much work for it, but my frustration stems not necessarily just from envy… but from frustration at a system of rampant randomness. This is something echoed by a lot of players who have been farming for these sorts of mounts, the Heavenly Onyx Cloud Serpent from the Sha of Anger is another good example. They might have killed the world boss actually more than 10 000 times and still have more kills to look forward to. There’s no guarantee that you will ever get it, so even if you have sunk more hours into killing the Sha of Anger than you have into all the other things you could rather have done, it might all be for nothing. It is doubly bad for the Heartbreaker, because it’s only available for two weeks of the year - FOMO kicks in and you go into high gear to maximise your chances to get that elusive rocket. Hence my annual season of burnout.

So what exactly is the solution here, because I’ve seen a lot of different ones being offered up. Increase the drop rates: doesn’t solve the problem in of itself, but makes it much likelier to acquire something - but comes at the cost of making items more pervasive and thus less unique and memorable (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing). Add a deterministic way of getting it, such as purchasing the Heartbreaker for love tokens: I suppose that works, but it would really ruin the aspect of the item as a rarity. Remove the timegating elements and let you farm these things as hard as you want: did you not read about the problem being time-investment and burnout…? I’m sure there are other solutions as well, but here’s the one I prefer.

Bad luck protection. BLP is a pseudo-deterministic means of collecting something, but it caters to a very specific audience and is not something that even everyone will benefit from. The key distinction is in the name, bad luck protection. It is a system set in place to benefit only those who are being screwed over by the randomness, while also preserving the aspects of randomness as a whole. BLP only kicks in when you have already reached a certain threshold where you should have already, statistically speaking, actually gotten whatever you were looking for. It would be created proportional to the rarity of the item and thus not be universally applicable. An item with a 1% drop rate would likely be guaranteed to drop after the 100th time, because statistically you would have gotten it in 1 of 100 runs. (Math is not my strong suit, and chance is a particular weak side of mine - I might be wrong about the math here, but I stand by the philosophy). In all likelihood, you already have the item you want before you would have been guaranteed to get it anyway. It doesn’t invalidate the work others would have put into it, because by hitting the BLP cap, you have just proven that you have done at least as much work as is statistically warranted of you, and probably also more work than most people who already have that reward. And I’m sure there would have to be some caveats added in. Does it track your progress account-wide or character, as in, do you need to do 100 runs on any character or just 1 character to be guaranteed to get it? What about the Heartbreaker, which is only available 14 days a year, does the timegate factor into the BLP? Are all items subject to BLP, or only select ones? Plenty more, I’m sure.

I think that everyone that participates in the game should be able to collect everything in the game, if they put in the right amount of effort, and making some rewards practically impossible to collect without not just monumental effort, but also extreme luck, just feels really bad and leads to a lot of toxic behaviour, such as my annual burnout cycle, and for others, worse behaviour such as raging against others whom the system deemed were lucky enough.

Okay, I got it out of my system. If anything, I hope this can get the discussion going. Please, tear this off-the-cuff post to shreds, because I wrote all of this in the span of an hour in between queueing for the Heartbreaker farm after already feeling the creeping sensation of burnout churning in my stomach after only the third attempt this year. I think I’ve made some good points, but this post is not of the sort of quality I’d normally like to share. I hope it was somewhat entertaining to read, either way.

Edit: Also, the level requirement to be able to participate in the casino also known as the X-45 Heartbreaker farm has been rising every expansion, making many players feel obligated to level as many alts as possible in order to maximise their chances. I think it is being raised so that players don’t feel they need to create an alt, level it to 10, try their daily chance of looting the rocket, deleting the character, rinse and repeat. If RNG wasn’t so evil in the first place, that wouldn’t be a problem and so the restriction would be made unnecessary.

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A quick addition: I randomly decided to check the X-45 Heartbreaker on wowhead, and found that username Thecanman has already done some of the math so that math-averse people like myself can see the real absurdity of it all:

A quote from the comment I find particularly amusing: " Now, you only have 14 chances to see this per year per character, so that boils down to 80 (for 50 characters) and 4000 (for just 1 character) YEARS to complete enough runs."

So if someone ever says “you’ll get it eventually”, you better hope you get to live long enough to do so :>

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Basically, every time you kill the boss there is a 1% chance for the item to drop. Statistically yes, that does mean it should drop on the 100th try for perfect chance.

But let’s say something has a 50% drop chance. There is a 50% chance every time to collect. If you don’t get it the first time you’re still within the bounds of the stat, but if you don’t get it the second time either now we’re outside the normal statistic. The probability if the situation you’re in is lower.
Look at the inverse. You have a 50% chance to not get the item. The next time you also have a 50% chance to not get it. That exact scenario happens 25% of the time. (50% * 50%) Try a 3rd time, still no? that situation happens 12.5% of the time, because each scenario is half as likely as the last to happen. Go for a fourth try, by this point, in 6.25% of scenarios you still don’t loot the item, but in 93.75% of scenarios you have gotten it by this point.

So, full circle, 1% drop chance, statistically after 100 attempts there is still a 36% chance to have not looted the item (if my math is right)

But the most important thing to remember is that 100 attempts does not guarantee a drop. Statistics are just math, every time you loot the boss, open the box, roll the dice you have the same percentage chance to have the item drop. The drop chance never gets better, the scenarios just get rarer.

Sorry for the math rant, but I love probability hahaha! Hope this clears some of it up for you :slight_smile:

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Ive always respected a rare drop but love elusive mounts/items. I think certain things need to be a staple of “omg”. I think the more blizzard encroaches on impossible to get stuff the worse it will get. Examples like the spectral tiger mount for the lunar event and Dark portal toy need to remain TCG exclusives and not be a randomly rewarded to players thing that were once super hard to get. They just need to make more things that I know for a fact people will love and stop just going back to the rare stuff that already exists invaliding all previous owners. I hate recycled stuff

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I REALLY wish there was bad luck protection in this game to the extent which we actually need it. I am going to hit 2,700+ attempts on the mount this year (44 eligible characters this time around). It feels more like an insult than anything that this mount was made at such a low drop rate for a limited time event.

Should have just made the meta achievement for these seasonal events the title + mount with just pets or transmog a part of the daily dungeon. This is the most ridiculous RNG.

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I’m personally not a fan of extreme RNG like most people.

As you guys said, I think most things, if not all, should have some sort of bad luck protection installed. Even if it’s just 0.01% increase each time you do it. To have it just have that very low chance every time is horrible. I genuinely can’t think of a single instance where Bad Luck Protection is a bad idea. Even most gacha games have it, and that’s counter-productive to them trying to make more money.

Rare drops are fine. But only to a certain degree. There was someone in the WoW Collections discord that had over 30,000 Garrosh kills before the shoulders dropped. I don’t even want to know how many accounts he ran it on every week.

I’m going to say something that you guys will probably hate me for: I have had multiple X-45 Heartbreakers drop over the years. Why do I still do the event, you might ask? Simple.

I still haven’t had the toy drop. Yea. It’s the only holiday item I don’t have from any holiday. It refuses to drop. I haven’t done the event the past couple years because, frankly, I’ve given up hope after a certain point.

This is the main problem with the RNG. Someone could get multiple mounts, but that toy with a much higher drop rate? It might never drop. Or the opposite can happen - and I know it has, as my friend has to destroy the toy multiple times a year while going after the mount.


Another point brought up about RNG today on warcraftpets discord:

There’s a pet from Revendreth, called the Burdened Soul. It has a chance to drop from a single Secret Treasure when it’s up. The problem? Due to RNG, that treasure hasn’t spawned in over 6 months. And even when it does spawn, the pet isn’t guaranteed. So the pet is currently insanely overpriced.

I wish more than anything they would start adding Bad Luck Protection to things. Even if it’s the most minor BLP possible. Even if it only guarantees the item at 1000/5000 loots. Some sort of BLP is better than none.

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I personally hate BLP but If someone has run Garrosh 100k times they deserve it.

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Yup I agree…Even though I farm the Heartbreaker 50 times every day, I feel adding BLP to it (or increasing its drop rate) would make it feel less of a “OMG!” moment when it does finally drop, same would go for any other mount / transmog.

But I do get where people are coming from, as farming for something for so long and never seeing it drop can be frustrating

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BLP Should exist for most Power-related rewards.

The exceptions should be what the old legendaries were. I’m talking things like Warglaives of Azzinoth, Sulfuras, etc.

Cosmetic items should not have BLP. Yes its frustrating, and yes it is some people’s primary avenue of play, but BLP takes out the wow factor, to Slacker’s point above me.

I actually disagree, because BLP would likely not even trigger for most people that get the items, it only triggers when someone has been grinding the items for so long that it is unlikely that they wouldn’t have already gotten it.

On another note, is it really worth preserving an “OMG moment” when players it’s causing players to lose interest, suffer through the grind, or even escalate their efforts, when they could have been spending their time doing something else? Especially when this applies to content that isn’t even part of the current expansion.

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When its for a cosmetic, absolutely.

Things already become easier to farm in later expansions because they can be solo’ed.
It’s the same reason the mythic only mounts go from 100% drop to 1% after the expansion.
Getting a drop on your 5th try when its a 1% drop chance is really exciting. Getting a drop on your 19th try when your 20th is 100% guaranteed isn’t nearly as exciting.

But that’s a bad example, because that wouldn’t be the case. Using your math from the post above:

After 100 attempts, there’s still 36% chance to not loot it - which I wouldn’t even think of as the threshold for bad luck. I would say that when bad luck would probably kick in when there’s a 10%, of even 5% chance of when you haven’t been able to loot it. According to a chance calculator I looked up, it would take roughly 230~ runs in order to get to 10%, or 300 to get to 5%. If we use the latter as an example, you would have 299 chances to get an OMG moment before the game decides that you’ve suffered enough. Heck, they might even decide to put it at 1000 attempts for a 1% item - but it should exist somewhere.

The point of BLP isn’t to remove OMG moments, a hard deterministic means of doing so would do that, but BLP doesn’t, because you’ll probably get it before even reaching the threshold. BLP caters only to players who never received their OMG moment, because by the time they actually get it, almost everyone else that put in the same effort already has it. Their OMG moment is less an exciting moment of looting an item, and more a shot of relief that their journey is finally over.

Sure, it’s a little less exciting when you know that if you just put it the hours, you can get it - but you will have to put in the hours to actually get it.

My rant about randomness isn’t really about rarity, it’s about time/work. There’s a threshold when the amount of effort you put into a game becomes harmful, even if it is for a trivial reward. Defined end goals are a good way of psychologically countering this problem; it’s the same problem that we had in Legion and BFA with the infinite AP grinds, but in a different avenue of the game.

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I find that these short seasonal events should have most of, if not all of their special items as part of the seasonal vendor listing. In example, the X-45 Heartbreaker could be part of the vendor list priced with an amount of love tokens that may not be able to collect a single year, but perhaps something you could accumulate over a few years, abided the tokens would then stay in your inventory and not disappear after the event ends.

I am personally doing thousand of attempts for the mount every year, and it’s getting quite disheartening, not only to spend several hours every day, but also keeping up with leveling alts every year due to the restrictions to get the box itself.

There are more fun things to be done in the love event besides visiting Shadowfang Keep.

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Just want to paint that post from Chimes in the color blue, to make sure no one misses it:

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I like to farm mounts and i know how it feels to don’t get what you want after many hundreds or in this case thousands of attempts. I feel like any kind of bad luck protection is a good solution to prevent people from having lot of bad luck on some mounts and getting totally mad about it.

I hope you’ll find a good solution for the rocket without overacting.
Maybe it’s a possibility to put this Mount in the BMAH like other low drop rate mounts from MoP and WoD worldbosses.

I’m really glad Chimes came in and responded, and that this is under evaluation! And I think it is perfectly understandable that a solution wouldn’t be implemented this year, especially now that we’re halfway through this year’s holiday already.

I hope the discussion goes beyond just holidays, and touches on a couple of other sources of extreme randomness as well, at the very least the kind that isn’t current content (looking at you, Pandaria world bosses).

This made my day, and I might just take the rest of Love is in the Air off to not have to contend with the Crown Chemical Co.'s evil schemes :>

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Personally, this is one of the few suggestions I’d be okay with.
I love super rare items. I’ve talked about them in other threads on this very forum.

The biggest problem with the X-45 Heartbreaker isn’t the drop rate. It’s the fact that it’s only farmable for a couple weeks out of the entire year.

It leaves mount collectors needing to have as many characters as possible ready and spam the instance all day every day to put in several hundred attempts each year. That part feels bad. I’m of the opinion that needing alts to be the most efficient at farming rare drops isn’t a great system and I’d be very open to legacy content not giving a lockout to make them more farmable by 1 character. This would also apply to old world bosses and holiday events like the Crown Chemical Co.

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One thing I appreciate about the response here so far, is the willingness to wait to come up with a quality solution rather than an uncalibrated response. In a game of 800+ available mounts, this is seen by many as one of the rarest mounts because of its drop rate and low availability. One could make a case that much of the desire for this mount comes directly from its scarcity. Therefore, lowering the drop rate would directly lower its value.

One thing I have really enjoyed about this conversation, is the discussion of ‘bad-luck protection’. I think it is an important topic of discussion and worth looking into at both a skill-based and time-based difficulty levels. However, I do not believe we should start with the “Holy Grail” of RNG as our pilot test run.

Instead, I think it important to look at what many of the complaints center around – limited time and specific level requirements. I can think of a few scenarios where there may be a potential solution:

  1. Remove the level limiter. Currently, you can only attempt to loot this mount on a character that is at least level 50. The idea behind this level limiter removal would allow players more opportunities without feeling the need to level up characters to prepare for the holiday event. The weakness in this would come where players make new characters, level them to 10 or 15, run the dungeon, delete, and repeat. This may or may not be a problem depending on how you look at it.
  1. Remove the daily limiter. Currently, you can only attempt to get this mount once per day per character. If the daily limiter was removed, then there may be less of a need to feel compelled to level up a character for the event to maximize one’s own chances for the mount to drop. This may result in high amounts of burn-out due to excessive running on one character, but this tends to be the nature of time-based difficulty content.
  1. Remove the daily limiter and level limiter. In this scenario, players could run the dungeon as much as they want on any character they wish. With the instance rewarding roughly 10% of level’s worth of XP per clear, this may or may not need to be adjusted. However, it would give players a secondary reason to run the instance. So, if a player doesn’t get the mount to drop after several runs for that day, the player can think, “Yeah… I didn’t get the mount to drop, but I was able get my warrior up 2 levels today.” This helps steer the player from the idea that all the time they just played was for absolutely nothing.
  1. Add Bonus Rolls. For the sake of this example, let’s call bonus roll coins ‘Lovely Coins’. Over the course of a holiday, if a daily quest rewards 10 Love Tokens, then a player could spend 10 Love Tokens to purchase 1 Lovely Coin. They would then use the Lovely Coin as a bonus roll for the mount to drop (either after opening the container or killing the boss – doesn’t really matter here). So, in short, a character has twice as many chances with the Lovely Coins. Just to be clear, this currency would be a permanent currency on the character tab, and these ‘Lovely Coins’ would have no cap and would not disappear after the holiday ended. If a player wanted to, then they could farm up 1000 of these.
  1. Add Unlimited Bonus Rolls. So, take everything from the previous example, and apply here. Then add on the potential of bonus rolling the mount with each additional run. For example, let’s say a player runs the first dungeon of the day, they would have two chances – once with the normal drop and another with the bonus roll. However, if they have additional bonus rolls, then they could also run the dungeon again and use the bonus roll for another chance at the mount. One of the benefits with the bonus rolls would be to drive the players to do the in-game content surrounding the holiday to improve their chances at the mount.
  1. Remove all limiters and add unlimited bonus rolls. This is culmination all of the previous suggestions… So, in this scenario, any player at any level could run the instance as much as they wanted. Furthermore, if they decided to collect enough Love Tokens to earn the ‘Lovely Coins’, they would essentially have two rolls for the mount every time they ran the instance. This could increase outdoor content surrounding the holiday season as players increase chances at the mount by doing dailies and joining charm farming groups. A potential vulnerability here, would come from so weird scaling phenomenon, where a player would maximize ‘charm farming’ or ‘coin farming’ at anything other than max level. So, development would have to ensure that is wasn’t significantly more beneficial to farm at a lower level.

So, the important thing to note here is that none of these changes involves the tampering of the drop rate of the mount. They instead focus increasing a player’s likelihood of success through in-game gameplay! Now, of course, these potential solutions are not a fix for everyone. We haven’t really talk about bad luck protection nor the concept of undermining previous player’s effort of getting something in-game. However, those subjects may require their own thread of conversation.

Something that may be worth considering would be a test of sorts for potential changes in the future. For example, we have Noble Garden starting on April 18th – about 2 months from now. Perhaps, we could introduce a Rabbit mount with a drop rate of 1 in 3,300 that drops from a giant Yeti in an instantized version of Old Hillsbrad. For each unsuccessful attempt, players would be awarded an Account-bound currency (we can call it Yeti Essence for now). So, each kill gets you a Yeti Essence, and with 4,500 Yeti Essences, you can simply buy the Rabbit. This would give developers a means of testing player behavior when it comes to this type of bad luck protection system, and it would give players a chance to have something new to chase after.

In fact, there could be a tiered system of it:

Permanent Holiday Transmogs at various odds and various costs
Pets and Toys at various odds and various costs
Brown Rabbit (1:500 odds) costs 800 Yeti Essences
White Rabbit (1:1,500 odds) costs 2500 Yeti Essences
White Rabbit with red mount and paws (like DMF Rabbit) (1:3,300 odds) costs 4,500 Yeti Essences

Perhaps duplicate transmogs, pets, toys, and mounts could be rewarded for Yeti Essences to allow for the purchase of something they do not have

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I think this is a pretty great and insightful response, but I would like to reiterate that a big problem with the entire farm is toxic gameplay behaviour that is neither particularly fun nor friendly to players. As Chimes wrote in the bluepost, doing this every single day with with 50 alts is mathematically correct, but not a great experience. The core of the issue is, and has always been, the experience of earning this is just not going well.

As you point out, the weakness comes from players making new characters, run the dungeon, and delete. It does technically give you “infinite” attempts per day, but adds a lot of work past attempt #50. Not a great solution to anyone by itself.

This would at the very least eliminate the need to have 50 alts, and that would be a great step in the right direction - that’s 49 fewer characters you need at the level requirement. It would still be a terribly boring and unending grind. It might even make players do more than 50 attempts per day, making it an even more unhealthy way of playing, because now it will be mathematically correct to skip out on sleep in order to get those 10 instances per hour capped. Slightly extreme example, I really hope no one would do that. The point is, now that there’s a limit of 50 attempts per day, they will still have time to do other things in the meantime.

The problems I’ve raised in the former point still stands, but at least you can do it on any character you want to play now.

This one, by itself, is a pretty tough thing to swallow - at least the exact way it is described. With this system, you will not only have to do the 50 runs per day, you will also need to farm as many tokens as humanly possible in order to maximise your chances. To make matters worse, you will need to do this on all 50 alts, because the most efficient means of earning tokens to purchase bonus rolls from would be to do daily quests on each of them. This is so much extra work for what is technically twice as many chances to get it. The bonus rolls would have to be rather trivial to earn if you want them to solve any of the issues.

This seems like the second point, but with extra steps.

See points 1-5.

Okay, so I might seem a little harsh here, I have highlighted the downside of each of the points because these ideas in many ways also have flaws - but by no means do I think it’s all bad and not worth considering. I think with some tweaks, much of these points can create a much healthier way to approach everything.

Edit: These criticisms are all assuming that you will still only be able to farm the mount during the 14 day Love is in the Air holiday period. If the mount was available year round, I think the discussion would have been very different.

I’ll have to criticise myself a little bit here, too, because only adding bad luck protection isn’t going to solve any problems either. It won’t make players not feel the need to maximise their chances, thus not making them play on 50 alts all day every day, the only change bad luck protection in of itself will change is the total amount of time they will need to put into the game (i.e. having an end post) - which might actually encourage them to put even more effort in, because the end of the journey seems much more tangible.

There’s no easy solution here, something will have to give. I hope the devs can figure out which approach is the best.

On the other system that’s been proposed, the “Yeti Essence” system: I think it would be interesting to test this system, but I also think a lot of players would get really upset if they tossed this in with a brand new mount, a brand new farm that might take 4,500 attempts to get. That sort of test would take years to conduct properly, the majority of players will not make even half of the attempts required even if they were given a year.

However, I think it is a fairly good system - it’s bad luck protection with a couple of extra steps, and extra rewards.

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