Probability and Heartbreak

The RNG gods giveth, and the RNG gods taketh away. Tis the season for those who have been lucky enough to obtain the elusive Heartbreaker to post screenshots on Twitter and those who haven’t to make rants about the terrible unfairness of RNG on the forums. A recent WoW Community Council post takes the latter approach and proposes the need for “bad-luck protection” for the unlucky with the notion that this would be fairer: The X-45 Heartbreaker: a rant about randomness.

Since we cannot comment directly on these posts, I wanted to share my thoughts here and offer an opportunity for the rest of the WoW community to ponder the nature of fairness and the RNG gods. On the surface, the OP’s opinion feels right: bad-luck protection, we all want that, yeah? But when it comes to cosmetic items, is it fairer than blind chance?

First, let’s talk probability. The OP notes that if something has a 1% drop chance then after 100 attempts you’re “statistically” guaranteed to get it. But a drop chance is better thought of as an average. Let’s take the Heartbreaker for example. Wowhead states the drop chance is 0.03%. Therefore, on average, players obtain the mount after 3,333 attempts. The OP suggests that once reaching the 3,333th attempt, bad-luck protection would kick-in. However, you’re not in bad luck territory, statistically speaking. You are average. To be “bad-luck”, you’d need to be at least 3 standard deviations above the mean if “bad-luck” means “outlier”. Indeed, the OP seems to suggest that by the mean attempt, you’ve likely already received the mount and so this should impact only bad-luck players. This makes the drop rate sound more like a maximum than a mean.

So what about bad-luck protection for those outliers? Would this make the process of mount farming more “fair” and give the player a means to defeat the evil RNG gods? Actually, I don’t think so. For one, bad-luck protection is not “pseudo-deterministic”. It is deterministic. Now, each attempt increases the probability you receive the mount because you are getting closer to the bad-luck protection cap. Thus, for players that can dedicate 3k attempts will always get the mount, whereas those who can’t become less likely to receive it; previously, regardless of how much time you put in, everyone had an equal chance each attempt at receiving the mount. That’s the thing about probability: it’s actually the fairest way to distribute a rare item. The RNG gods may seem evil, but they’re actually just indifferent.

The OP makes an important distinction between items that are rare because of a low drop chance and rare because they require some feat of strength. By removing the drop chance component of the first, all mounts become obtainable by mere feats of strength. There becomes no difference between Ashes of Al’ar and the Shadowbarb Drone: just do your grind and you’re guaranteed them. I think this does two negative things: 1) it punishes players who can’t invest the time for the number of attempts necessary to get the mount (remember, because they literally have a lower probability of receiving it than others because the probability increases with each attempt if there is an attempt cap); and 2) it removes a source of rarity from the game. All mounts become homogenized into the “feat of strength” category.

This post is in no way meant to diminish the struggle of the OP. I too have spent a great deal of time grinding mounts and transmogs (I killed over 4,000 hexthralled mobs in Drustvar before I finally got my Terrified Pack-Mule). But I contend RNG is both fair and an important category of rareness in the game that without we would lose the diversity of mount sources. It may be heartbreaking to be at 4k kills and still no mount, but it is fair.

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I fail to see how this is the case. They still have the opportunity to get it earlier. Simply, a protection system is added.

Well, I don’t think rarity would be removed. Mounts would still be rare due to the drop rate, and the maximum amount of attempts it would take.

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There’s limits, 4k kills on npcs that could be farm via hyper spawn, it’s not the same as 15 attempts per character per year. Everything depends on the ratio between attempts / drop rate. That’s why Blizzard changed Mecha done achievement on 9.1.5 because they notice the really low drop % for some items, even when some players like me got it before that patch, same could be said about the last Anniversary mount that was changed to 100% drop.


We need fair drop rates, Love rocket on which there’s players with YEARS!! 10+ Years trying it, it’s not a good reward design.


Also take on consideration that this mount has different levels of rarity from a player perspective, it was easier for the first players to try it, because you could reset instance and farm it with a single character.
Then Blizzard added the LFG and it become only available for players 14+ and since 7.3.5 it become even more difficult and rare because now you’ve the limitation that you must level up your characters to a minimum level each expansion just to do your attempts.


At least on my POV, any rare drop added in game should be designed around players with 1 character to players with 20-50 alts.

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Here’s what needs to happen:

  • holidays need updated more frequently with new content and new rare drops
  • move old drops to vendors every year to sell for currency
  • make new rare drops not stupidly low droprates
  • have more items to earn during holiday events and more new things every year
  • let everyone from level 20 on up be able to earn these
  • delete restrictions on holiday items and let them be usable all year round
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100% agree, also i already did several post on holiday revamp ideas, so i won’t dive into it, but they really need to do something, Holidays could bring life to the game during droughts of content.

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They do in every other MMORPG I play. And there are no restrictions on them either. Even Rift was still updating their events and that game is mostly dead.

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Just look at the amount of complaints, post around this mount… its really sad to have this in the game, the fight isn’t a challenge, there’s not fun, i just shut down my brain and do my attempts… it just cause burn out, there’s players that said “you don’t need”, “just pixels” but i want it, its a game and shouldn’t be like that, there’s limits and this was one of the worst things to add to a holiday event.


I just want to be free like Dobby :weary: :cry:

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Having the opportunity to get it alone does not make it fair. If fairness is the goal, then having the same opportunity to get it per attempt is fairer than an attempt cap if said cap is prohibitively high for some players.

And I didn’t say it removed “rarity” - it removes a source of rarity; that is to say, it removes rarity due to low drop chance. A high attempt cap can still make a mount rare, no doubt, but it is no different than a feat of strength at that point.

Man I wanted to read it but the wall of text crit me for 50 million. My poor damn eyes can’t handle all these crap forum colors.

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BLP only kicks in when you have already reached a certain threshold where you should have already, statistically speaking, actually gotten whatever you were looking for. It would be created proportional to the rarity of the item and thus not be universally applicable. An item with a 1% drop rate would likely be guaranteed to drop after the 100th time, because statistically you would have gotten it in 1 of 100 runs. (Math is not my strong suit, and chance is a particular weak side of mine - I might be wrong about the math here, but I stand by the philosophy).

A clarification: when I wrote about the math, I mainly used the 1 of 100 runs as an example when speaking about when bad luck protection would kick in (not when you are guaranteed to get something from a loot drop) and that it would be proportional to the drop chance. I also admitted that the math was wrong, but that the philosophy of what I used in the example is what actually matters: you should be guaranteed to get an item when you have reached the threshold to become unlucky.

The chance for those who can’t put in 3k attempts into getting it hasn’t actually changed at all, they will be just as likely to get it now as they would with the BLP system introduced. And those who are able to put in 3k attempts are already more likely to get the item, even without BLP, because they have more chances to play the slot machine.

It’s not really a punishment, it’s an unattainable reward, because a punishment means taking something away from you. You have lost nothing, you have only gained a means to get something if you so truly want. It’s true that this will only benefit those who are able to put in the hours needed, yes, but they do also work for these extra hours - that is why it is fair. It isn’t fair that some people are able to put in more work than others, but that is unfortunately the way it is.

Overall, I’m glad for the response, even if we disagree :>

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OMG that’s my phrase JK… not matter the amount of attempts a player has on this mount, you’re still on square 1. It’s really awful, the only difference is that i’ve more chances compared to a player with few characters.

And this is why i want more CC members, because almost nobody reply to your post Halite, it’s a concern the amount of active members there, we need both POV.

Thank you for the response! I’m glad you saw this, I would have obviously preferred to discuss it on your thread directly. I want to say I appreciate all your community council posts - always very well thought-out and articulated, and the RP community needs heroes like you. :slight_smile:

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I’m pretty sure we’re due some new members soon(?) but I’ve yet to see confirmation :>

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Hopefully, also i would like to see participation from reward desing Devs and World / Quest Devs, because Holidays need a lot of love as mentioned by Thallia on her comment and there’s a ton of ideas for improvements, brawls, WQ, questlines…etc , I hope 9.2.5 bring some changes to old content or something to do while we wait for 10.0

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There are 807 mounts in the in the game. I believe less than 100 are retired and that’s including gladiator mounts.

It’s ok for there to be a one unicorn mount out of 700. One. It’s one. Plus mounts are cosmetic. Nobody needs it.

And I’m not an owner. I have 3000+ attempts, might be pushing 4000. I’m fine with that. It’ll make getting the mount that much sweeter.

Edit: Btw, the huge improvement that would make grinding for this mount less painful is to just remove the 10 instances an hour.

I am a person that does not mind low drop rate mounts and the such but if we are going to talk about holiday mounts I think we need to talk about the currency. Having a currency tab for holidays could be the solution to some of the problems with low drop rate holiday mounts. If the currency is allowed to rollover from year to year they Blizzard could put the mount on a vendor. Now the price of the mount would not be something where you could buy the mount that year or even the year after but something that would a few years to grind up.

So basically you pray to the rng Gods for the mount or you save for years to get it. For some people it may be more tolerable to save 4 years worth of tokens than roll the rng wheel.

I need it.

You want it, like I want it. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

No, i need it, I’m a collector as main propouse on this game, the only ones that i don’t get are the Glad mounts but i’m going for all mounts available. So it’s a necessity for me. If i check my simple armory and saw that empty field i feel like i should do more, maybe another account anything to get it :frowning: addiction issues with this gambling, i should never go to a casino

Yeah it’s my purpose too. It’s all I do.

However that doesn’t change the fact that’s it’s not needed, just like the Glad mounts aren’t needed.