The X-45 Heartbreaker: a rant about randomness

[Qyune-exodar]

@Halite-bonechewer

Okay, so I might seem a little harsh here, I have highlighted the downside of each of the points because these ideas in many ways also have flaws - but by no means do I think it’s all bad and not worth considering. I think with some tweaks, much of these points can create a much healthier way to approach everything.

Not at all! In fact, I appreciate the response, because at the end of the day, we are all here to trying to make the game better in one way or another! So, if we can tear apart a suggestion or imperfect solution, and from that create something better, then I am all on board! That being said, I will push back on a few things with equal force.

@Halite-bonechewer

As you point out, the weakness comes from players making new characters, run the dungeon, and delete. It does technically give you “infinite” attempts per day, but adds a lot of work past attempt #50. Not a great solution to anyone by itself.

So, this statement highlighted in bold is the only thing I have an issue with. For example, if someone had 3 characters that were between levels 20 – 30, 4 characters between levels 30-40, 3 characters between 40-50, and 2 level 60 characters. Their potential attempts could increase from 2 per day to 12 per day simply by removing the level requirement (or adjusting it). For those who may simply not enjoy leveling at all, this could be a potential game changer for them.

Now, if someone has 50 characters, and they have leveled them to 50, then yes, you would be correct in stating that this would not benefit them. However, this change would likely impact many, many other players by removing a level requirement for a 2-week holiday.

@Halite-bonechewer

This would at the very least eliminate the need to have 50 alts, and that would be a great step in the right direction - that’s 49 fewer characters you need at the level requirement. It would still be a terribly boring and unending grind. It might even make players do more than 50 attempts per day, making it an even more unhealthy way of playing, because now it will be mathematically correct to skip out on sleep in order to get those 10 instances per hour capped. Slightly extreme example, I really hope no one would do that. The point is, now that there’s a limit of 50 attempts per day, they will still have time to do other things in the meantime.

The terminology ‘mathematically correct’ has very little merit in and of itself. For example, it is mathematically correct for someone with a fulltime job to quit and dedicate themselves to getting mythic raiding world first, mythic 30+, and gladiator in the same season. It is mathematically correct for a player to focus all their time trying to get the incredibly rare Pattern: High Society Top Hat and Design: rhinestone Sunglasses recipes from Cataclysm. It is mathematically correct to level 50 warriors to run SoO for the Tusks of Mannoroth. However, we do not do what is mathematically correct, because it is a simple, 1-dimensional approach that factors in nothing else that impacts our lives and gameplay. I would not associate what is mathematically correct with anything practical or rational. Playing to the tune of what is mathematically correct is a fantastic way to acquire a really rare item in a game one has come to hate.

@Halite-bonechewer

This one, by itself, is a pretty tough thing to swallow - at least the exact way it is described. With this system, you will not only have to do the 50 runs per day, you will also need to farm as many tokens as humanly possible in order to maximise your chances. To make matters worse, you will need to do this on all 50 alts, because the most efficient means of earning tokens to purchase bonus rolls from would be to do daily quests on each of them. This is so much extra work for what is technically twice as many chances to get it. The bonus rolls would have to be rather trivial to earn if you want them to solve any of the issues.

You are probably correct in that some may begroan doing dailies to improve their odds at the mount. However, we could always adjust the numbers. In the example listed originally, I had equated 1 daily to giving 1 extra bonus roll. Maybe in another version, perhaps 1 daily could reward enough to purchase 5 extra bonus rolls. Or 10. The important concept here, is that it would encourage in-game holiday game play, where players may have a little more incentive to do other content. This would include potentially joining up for the ‘charm farms’.

@Halite-bonechewer

Edit: These criticisms are all assuming that you will still only be able to farm the mount during the 14 day Love is in the Air holiday period. If the mount was available year round, I think the discussion would have been very different.

Perhaps, something to consider, what if you were able to purchase extra loot coins from Time Walking Badges that you pick-up over the course of the year? It may take away some of the pressure to get everything done in that 2-week window.

[Halite-bonechewer]

@Qyune-exodar

So, this statement highlighted in bold is the only thing I have an issue with. For example, if someone had 3 characters that were between levels 20 – 30, 4 characters between levels 30-40, 3 characters between 40-50, and 2 level 60 characters. Their potential attempts could increase from 2 per day to 12 per day simply by removing the level requirement (or adjusting it). For those who may simply not enjoy leveling at all, this could be a potential game changer for them.

You’re right, I didn’t really consider that! It would certainly come to benefit those who haven’t got an army of alts, but the downside for those who have the time and effort to go past attempt #50 remains. Overall, I think removing the daily cap on your attempts would ultimately prove better than removing the level requirements; perhaps instead of making a daily cap per character, it can be a cap on attempts per account?

@Qyune-exodar

Playing to the tune of what is mathematically correct is a fantastic way to acquire a really rare item in a game one has come to hate.

This is absolutely correct, and I fully agree that playing something because it is ‘mathematically correct’ is usually just bad, particularly in situations like this.

However, that isn’t necessarily the issue. The saying “players will optimise the fun out of a game” rings very true here; the reason many players are already using an army of 50 characters is because it is the optimal way to do this. If the rules were changed and a new way of doing it optimally arises, there will be some attempts at leaning into it. My example was way too extreme, so how about a slightly more reasonable one. If you can run as many times as possible (limited to 10 instances per hour of course), you would now be able to run up to 50 times per day - the maximum attempts with no daily cap is 240. It is unrealistic to hit all 240, but something like 100 runs doesn’t seem too unrealistic. Uncapping the daily limit opens up the door for people to spend even more time to just trying to squeeze as many chances in as possible.

Ultimately, this is technically not so much a systemic issue, but a player issue. But I do not think systems should enable players to engage in behaviour that can be harmful to them.

@Qyune-exodar

Perhaps, something to consider, what if you were able to purchase extra loot coins from Time Walking Badges that you pick-up over the course of the year? It may take away some of the pressure to get everything done in that 2-week window.

This would alleviate the issue of having to work extra hard during the holiday, and at least it would give you 50 weeks of the year to prepare and for the event. The pressure remains fairly high during the event, but with bonus rolls you are at least doubling your attempts (assuming you are playing perfectly optimally). It’s another step in the right direction, but it isn’t by itself going to solve the issue. I personally really like this idea, and I think it’s the kind of thing they could implement even if they were to add bad luck protection.

Some other ideas I’ve heard beyond this thread have been to add items or challenges that manipulates the odds of looting it - but that would of course be changing the drop percentage, which is beyond this particular line of discussion at the moment. But I promised I’d mention it either way.

[Estuphae-moon-guard]

I think that everyone is going to have their own perspective on how fair the odds are on this mount. The expectation of being able to obtain any item in the game is frankly subjective. In general, I hate excessive RNG and the X45 has the lowest odds combined with a restricted time period to even make your attempts. I think that while such a ‘white whale’ can exist in the game, it is not something that should be replicated often.
In my opinion, small random chance should be limited to small cosmetic differences. Other games do this well such as a chance at a variant colours. You have a relatively decent chance at the item but a smaller chance at a variant of that item. Consider shiney versions of pokemon.
This is the similar to the mythic versions of raid sets that have the extra flair but instead the mount would have a unique colouration or a different particle effect. The important part would to not have these count as two separate mounts in the collection tab much like raid sets do not unless you are looking at the aesthetics for transmog.

[Mòóni-blackrock]

Right now I am thinking what about boe mounts. There are allready some in the game. I got so many mounts twice or more often after i looted them the first time. And all you can do is throw them away while others woulld maybe kill for that specific mount. It would at least give players the choice to spend gold instead of endless time on some mounts.

[Artemisha-illidan]

BoE ability would help IMO. I have a few Headless Horseman’s reigns and Brewfest Rams & Kodos on my alts. REALLY would rather be able to give them to a friend or just throw them on the Auction House.

[Halite-bonechewer]

Unlikely BoE options would help much for the X-45 specifically, but it’d be a great idea in general! It would be a great way to help other players get the mounts they might otherwise want to farm. It’d also alleviate much of the need for bad luck protection, since that’s not really something you’d want on tradeable items. It would definitely make a lot of those mounts a whole lot less rare, though.

[Haelsing-stormrage]

I think a flat % increase in the drop rate would probably be the best solution.
Lowering the level requirement /bonus rolls/grinding currency just sound like the same grind with extra steps, which is a grind more and more people are becoming disillusioned with, due to the unforgiving RNG/time limits involved.
Make it rare, but not insanely ridiculously rare, and start fleshing out rewards for other events.

A new Giant Tastyfish/Shark mount for the Stranglethorn Fising Extravaganza, randomly fishable from Tasytyfish Schools? Or a two-seater themed vehicle mount for Children’s Week rewarded from a quest chain involving bringing an Orphan to several landmark legacy raid encounters?
Perhaps an ice or fire elemental themed mount from Ahune, similar in style to the Glacial Tidestorm.
Or an enchanted flying Keg mount for Brewfest? (Or better yet, a rideable Alemental)
All with a reasonable drop-rate of course.

I’d also love to see more variety, like silly cosmetic weapons/armor, or flavor spells like tomes of polymorph/hex.

[Worldpvp-nerzhul (Worldpvp)]

They could go insane on mounts for alot of things but I think it would just lead to insane bloat. I remember when celestial steed came out and EVERYONE had it, I think blizzard looks at that and pushes most great mount ideas to store bought and everything just kind of just gets left to die.

[Artemisha-illidan]

For sure, it definitely wouldn’t help the X-45 problem unless that mount had a significant drop rate increase. I am going to hit 2,700 attempts before the event ends and I don’t have even an inkling of hope that the mount is going to drop. This is such a disheartening grind.