I am confused why this is an issue. Where is rolling out for 6 sec continuously worth losing all that time spent firing with hammond guns.
You prob took so much dmg being grabbled to the same point youd have run away for healing anyway before 6 sec.
Just seems akin to charge mechanics. You can hold doomfist charge for 2sec but you were done charging after 1 sec.
The uses of grapple are many more outside of spinning.
I don’t mind losing “Spin2Win” because I barely even use it. What probably bothers most Ball players is that we can’t set up anymore for some long rollouts, (as you have to be extremely precise now or you’ll just feed or fall to the void) set up on spots for engaging, or even recover after getting booped or CC’d, which makes it even more ironic, since supposedly this change was made with OW2 in mind and ONLY TANKS WOULD HAVE CC (undestanding that as boops and stuns) in OW2 but somehow half the roster still has CC in this game, that being boops or stuns (for example Ana’s sleep, Lucio, Brig & Pharah’s boops, Cassidy’s Flash, Sombra’s Hack and so on).
When Ball got 25% knockback nerf his boop became literally the worst boop in the game, even worse than Lucio’s, while a freaking FLYING hero has the most broken boop.
This is just to show the clear bias from the devs to the DPS audience, as tanks keep getting nerfed multiple times draining all the possible “fun” this heroes could provide while other DPS heroes that were already strong (Hanzo, Cass, Torb) get unnecessary buffs.
Tanks have reached a point were nobody wants to play them because they are incredibly boring and weak at range. You get constantly poked, bullied, flamed, booped, stunned, you’re a giant bullet sponge.
We never wanted more damage (like the Rein buff, which is unhealthy for the whole tanking role), we wanted more survivability, more Tankiness. They could’ve buffed Rein’s shatter to 3 seconds instead of the damage buff and it would’ve been a much more healthier change for the hero and everyone, but instead they managed to elevate even more powercreep and make it less fun for everyone, just a hint of how much “love and dedication” they spend with the game is looking at the state of this patch notes: they were bugged with Hanzo, had to tweak them, the hero descriptions are even bugged and don’t show their respective icons, and Rein’s ult is so busted it works through SHIELDS AND WALLS. They literally gave Reinhardt CS:GO’s AWP and kept it as a feature, because it still hasn’t been addressed 2 days after.
The particular ball nerf does more damage to experienced ball players than to spinners.
Some people have already shared multiple alternatives to remove Spin2Win without ruining other Ball interactions. Plus, this added to the ball grapple cooldown on respawn makes it TERRIBLE to play as. It’s extremely counter intuitive and unfun. We can’t even “spawn rollout” anymore while other heroes keep this fancy movement to stagger.
Plus, they implemented this change without even thinking of a visual cue to know when the grapple will break for other interactions. This just shows that not enough THINKING was put into the ball nerf and as a result, the main problem it tried to solve still exists and other aspects of the hero have been extremely severed. If they had at least tried to accomplish the removal of Spin2Win with a different concept, while also making it more visual and clear for when is the grapple going to “break”, I’m 100% sure it wouldn’t have had half the negative impact this change has created.
But knowing the dev team and their stubbornness they won’t properly address any of this issues or make the game more fun for tank players, so most of us are switching to DPS roles or just quitting the game altogether.
Why give feedback if they never listen anyways?
That Pink Mercy quote is probably the only reasonable explanations on what you lose from 6sec and even a few of those are were listed as not that bad. Not even that comprehensive.
“Spying” on people while hanging to me is like the Reinhardt who sits there trying to flank with shatter not being a tank and being out in the open absorbing fire. That’s behavior I’m perfectly fine killing.
The rest of this is post with replies more just a pity plea on Hammond’s nerfing. An indicator on when the release will happen would be good as a bar as a valid improvement. Other than that I have seen no ‘good behavior’ enabled by holding for 6 seconds.
Recovering off the side is not really an issue to me. If it takes you 6+ seconds to recover you are as good as dead to your team for being out of the fight for so long. There are times you can recover and others times you cant. So few maps even have fall off points as well you usually fight around.
The videos are showing dozens of rollouts with grapple times less than 6sec. Again, not seeing positive behavior on holding grapple for 6 seconds. Hanging around for 6 seconds not actively booping people around is an incredibly high amount of time not doing anything as a tank. A waste to the team.
I agree, it’s not an issue. Revert it, please. Mei can stop spin2win all by herself.
Ball & Rein are often utilised very differently and both have very different ways of dealing with pressure, it’s not remotely a fair comparison.
6s is far shorter than almost any intervals between teamfights are. Ball-centric teams are losing more than they gain from this patch.
I’m glad it’s not just me getting pissed at this.
Excellent write up, I hope we can make the devs understand (sigh… to even imagine this is needed)
I’m sure people will still have a problem with it and I’m not sure how easy it would be for devs to implement but just make the effect apply within a certain area around the objective or payload. I don’t like spin to win as a strat but I also dont see it as an issue that needed to be fixed. Having said that there are better ways I would think of dealing with stall vs this which seems to effect more then the problem.
I guess they’ve stopped the ceiling exploit?
The main issue is, when you spawn you have no grapple, when you are doing your spin successfully it breaks after 6seconds with no notification.
The reason this is a problem is it takes another 6seconds to let you latch back on. in a 5v5 game that they are developing you are removing one of his tools and outside of the actual grapple he offers NOTHING to the team but slammy slam which is also on an 12 second cooldown so its only useable every 2nd grapple.
IMO the problem would be solved by removing 6second spawn grapple and lowering grapple cooldown to 5seconds. 6 is punishing, 5 is less punishing, maybe even 4 but that might be to much spinny spin.
Another solution would be offer him the ability to steal shields from people like he does, then hit the button again on his own team and supply a shield spread out across them… actually a tank ability
JUST HOOK /HACK/ FREEZE/SYM TURRETS / JUNKTRAPTHE BALL, IT WILL LITTERALLY COUNTER HIM…
It’s already 5 seconds.
its 6seconds, and instantly says 5 because thats how math works… its 6seconds
You’re assuming that the time shown rounds down when it actually rounds up. That’s why you see “1” for the last second of the cooldown instead of “0”. That’s how math works.
Try actually playing WB instead of being spoonfed. You’re completely right, holding grapple for more than six seconds was not ever an issue.
There’s that spot on volskaya point A to the right of the obj. That building where some hitscan like to go. You can spin around up top and scout pretty much the whole area.
Just to clarify the team never said that CC in general will be removed from the cast, just that tanks will be the primary source of the really strong stuff. While at the same time being the most resilient to knock back.
Be it that they did clarify that most stuns outside of the tank role will be removed or altered.
Brig is the prime example of this at this time has her stun was changed into a damaging mobility tool that doubles as a defensive tool. (As her shield is up while she is doing it.)
Ana’s dart is an odd one, as it is primarily a defensive tool vs an offensive one. And the now longer cooldown forces the ability into an almost hard once per fight utility. That and without the second tank it’s a lot easier to just flank and force an 1v1/2v2 in the mid line. while the tank is busy up front.
Mei has lost her stun on the primary, she still slows. While her ult does in fact still freeze, be it that it’s not exactly useable most of the game.
Cassidy/Cree is currently in the rework chopping block if being locked from pro games is anything to go by. And considering that their pushing for Cass to get the air roll which in turn allows him to escape a lot vertical knock back tools like uppercut or ball slam. Theirs a very high chance he will no longer have the stun. Especially considering that it’s thee easiest stun to land in the game, on one of shortest cooldowns.
DoomFist is most likely will be reworked into a brawl tank, so him keeping the CC is pretty much a guaranty if that goes through. and I do believe that it will do to his kit being built like a tank to begin with.
( I can’t believe I forgot)
Sombra her CC doesn’t remove movement or the ability to use the primary, it doesn’t even interrupt those things in anyway. It can pull rien out of his charge, and temporally drop some shields (need more info outside of rien, do to other barriers being placed instead of held.) And even then the pros when they first tested it didn’t even relies how short it was, and were just swinging for like 5 seconds plus for no reason.
So that kind of tainted their original view on it. Be it that basic idea isn’t bad, needs tuning.
Outside of that Sym is tba, knock backs are staying but tanks are getting some heavy resistances, and byleth will be op.
Spin 2 Win was more than an issue, hence why it was rightfully addressed.
However, it’s true the devs could had accomplished the same thing via another type of change that wouldn’t damage the play styles of high - ranked Hammond players as well…