Sylvanas' endgame and BfA last patch (Speculation)

(Alamara) #1

I’ve posted it elsewhere, but I decided to make a topic so more people can comment and I can have bragging rights when we arrive there.

Some points may be a little off, but I think this is where we are headed, more or less:

Sylvanas’ motivations

  • Helya was the one who weakened Vol’jin, leading to his fatal wound.
  • Vol’jin was already dead when Sylvanas was appointed Warchief. It was Helya manipulating Vol’jin’s corpse. That’s why Vol’jin can’t remember things clearly.
  • Some other entity brought Vol’jin’s spirit back from the Other Side. My bet is Rezan.
  • Once Sylvanas was made warchief, Helya leaked information about Eyir and herself to her, leading her to Stormheim and their pact.
  • Helya survived her own death due to the pact. She’s now in contact with Sylvanas.
  • Sylvanas’ endgame, guided by Helya, is to kill Azeroth and everyone in it, turning the whole world into a realm of undeath, with Helya as its goddess.

Reasons for the War

  • The whole war is just a distraction while Sylvanas and Helya work in the background towards their endgame.
  • The Void fears Sylvanas because she would lead to the death of the World Soul, and her plans would kill even N’Zoth.
  • However, N’Zoth has his own plans, and is trying to get ahead of Sylvanas.
  • N’Zoth made a pact with Xal’atath because he knew Sylvanas/Helya would use the blade in their plans. So, he freed the entity in it and replaced it with his own essence, essentially derailing Sylvanas/Helya’s plans.

Final Patch’s possible plot

  • Final patch is going to be a four-way conflict between Alliance/Horde/Sylvanas/N’Zoth. The Alliance/Horde part will be developed in questing, while the battle between Death and Void will be the theme of the final raid.
  • “On the eve of her third death” is about Helya. Her death will lead to N’Zoth freeing himself.
  • I still think the final patch will be set in Quel’thalas and both Helya and N’Zoth want the Sunwell to power their efforts.
  • I also still think the void elves will be revealed as mostly traitors serving the Void in the final patch. Not all of them, but I think Umbric will be one of the traitors. They will lay a trap to transform more elves, since a lot of thalassians in both sides will be present in a Quel’thalas story. You know where this goes… That’s how void elves will get a “real race” status, but the “new” void elves have a completely different mindset from their predecessors, as dealing with the void was never a choice they made, so they view it as a curse.
  • So, in essence, Alliance has been used as pawns of the Void (“The boy king serves at the master’s table”), while Horde was manipulated by Death.
  • N’Zoth will be freed but not as we imagine it. Rather than breaking his prison, his essence in Xal’atatah will gain a mortal form, in a Nyarlathotep way, and he will be set up as a villain to plague us over future expansions.

Waiting now for 8.2 to adjust speculation as needed.

Update Jul-23th (click to expand)

N’Zoth’s fate: I haven’t updated this thread in some time. 8.2 unfortunately didn’t give so many hints about the future, but it did prove that the part about N’Zoth not being free was wrong. I’m now leaning towards N’Zoth being defeated by the end of the expansion, but Xal’atath becoming the last old god remaining (“it’s ironic that the weakest of us would be the ultimate victor”).

Also, I’ve been re-reading the Three Sister comics, and the whispers that Alleria hears seem like taunts and temptations. But… what if they aren’t just that, but warnings about the future?

Let’s analyze what the Void says to her:

When with Turalyon
“…can never be enough. Prove your love. Slay him and free him from the curse of the Light. Stop resisting. Give in and become one with us. It’s only a matter of time…”

Coud foreshadow Alleria’s descent into madness. Maybe something happens with Turalyon or Arator, but one of them manage to bring her back from madness. Or maybe not. Maybe she and Sylvanas end up being a free-for-all boss (one against the other, we against both), each representing a cosmic force we need to stop (Death and Void).

When meeting Vereesa
“The throne of Silvermoon is yours by right. Take it. Deliver this weak one to us, and we will grant her purpose…”

The Void wants Vereesa? Could it be foreshadowing of the fate of the high elves? This may or may not hint towards my predictions that the void taint will spread to the high elves.

When meeting Sylvanas
“This one is dangerous. She is a threat and must be ended. Beware this one, she seeks the death of all things… all possibilities. End her threat. Murder her, murder her, save yourself and murder her. Save the world and murder her.”

Wow, this really boosts my theory about Sylvanas’ endgame. Also, the voices say “save yourself and murder her”. Maybe because Sylvanas will kill/wound Turalyon or Arator, thus killing her at that point would prevent the dark future ahead?

When Sylvanas shows her banshee powers
“She’s a violation she serves the true enemy kill her now kill her kill her now remove her from this world and take from her what you need now now now”

Again, the void really fears Sylvanas. Maybe she’s the one who can stop N’Zoth (by killing Azeroth and impeding him from corrupting the titanic soul).

When returning to her family
“This is nothing. You should have killed her. Now it’s too late. You have sacrificed greatness for false feelings. They will leave you. You will watch as she claims them.”

Again, hinting at Turalyon’s and/or Arator’s death, caused by Sylvanas.

So yeah, I say these whispers, if profetic, give more weight to my endgame prediction.

Update Sep-12th (Click to expand)

Alliance/Horde conflict seems to be ending in 8.2.5. THat changes very little of my prediction, as we can still have the Death/Void conflict as the center stage of 8.3.

Update Oct-2nd (Click to expand)


I had some time to think about 8.2.5 outcomes and reanalyze my theories.

Like I said in the original post, some points may be a little off, but the direction I thought we were headed hasn’t changed.

End of the War

Unlike what I expected, the war wasn’t resolved in 8.3, but 8.2.5. Still, it happened in questing, rather than a raid. While it happened earlier (and more suddenly) than I predicted, it still leaves the core of my theory intact:

Final patch.

We are headed to the War between Death and Shadows. The Horde was being manipulated by death, the reveal that the Alliance is being influenced by the void is yet to come.

What’s going to happen?

The end of 8.2.5 leads us to believe that Sylvanas will lay low and wait while we face N’Zoth. Her plans revolve around expecting N’Zoth to “serve death” by killing as many mortals as possible in that conflict.

That’s not what I think will happen. N’Zoth will not act as she expects. Actually, he’s been warning us for a long time that Death is the true enemy.

“This one is dangerous. She is a threat and must be ended. Beware this one, she seeks the death of all things… all possibilities. End her threat. Murder her, murder her, save yourself and murder her. Save the world and murder her.”

Also, in the Uu’nat fight, N’Zoth whispers to us:

  • N’Zoth whispers: I alone can save you from what is to come.
  • N’Zoth whispers: It grows hungrier… bolder. Alas, your eyes are closed.

And what N’Zoth says when he is freed? All eyes shall be opened.

Through his influence over the Alliance (“The boy-king serves at the master’s table”), N’Zoth will make us hunt down Sylvanas.

Then, while we are busy fighting Sylvanas and the forces of her master (which I still expect to be Helya), N’Zoth will make his big move. “At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming.”

Who’s third death? Either Helya or… Alleria.

In the Uu’nat fight, there’s also this tidbit:

  • N’Zoth whispers: When the arrow finds its mark, the last fetter will fall away.

Maybe Sylvanas will kill, or severily harm Arator, leading Alleria to lose control?

High elves

I still think the void elves will turn traitor. Either because some of them will lose control, or because some of them have been serving N’Zoth all along, even before their transformation.

Where was Sylvanas last seen? Quel’thalas. So, it makes sense for all thalassians to be present for this showdown. And, since any patch involving Sylvanas’ resolution will also feature her sisters, Vereesa and the Silver Covenant will be there, and N’Zoth will try to add them to his forces.

Thus, my original prediction still stands: high elves will be turned into void elves. However, they’ll be saved by the player’s intervention.

The Final Raid

The final raid will be themed after Death vs. Void. We will try to stop both of those forces.

If my theory of the Sunwell being corrupted ends up true, the raid will involve securing it, then using it as a portal to the clashing realms of Death and Twilight. The final wings will probably be featured in the big Black Empire city we saw in Azshara’s Warbringers episode (is it Nya’lotha?)

Among the fights, we will have Nathanos, probably Umbric and maybe even all the Windrunner sisters (I guess a Sylvanas vs. Alleria vs. Us, with Vereesa helping us). We will also fight Sylvanas’ boss, and it will probably conclude with N’Zoth as the big bad of the expansion.

So, that’s my updated theory right now. What do you think?

Are you ready to trade Stormwind and Silvermoon? The Conclusion of BfA
High Elf Allied Race Megathread (Continuation)
Beta needs fresh eyes and ears
Queen's Order
War Campaign Conclusion Coming...PLACE YOUR BETS!
High Elf Allied Race Megathread (Continuation)
High Elf Allied Race Megathread (Continuation)
The Alliance High Elite Loyal Fans thread

We could use some faction splits.

4 factions in PVP would be a real challenge, of course alliances would be made and one group would be left out cold looking for their corpse.

(Alamara) #3

I don’t think Blizzard will ditch the factions in gameplay, but I could also see them fracturing in the story.


I like the idea of Helya being involved in the plot, but I think it’s probably going to be something more like Helya took over Sylvanas’ body as part of the bargain for the lamp and it’s Helya in league with N’zoth and Azshara.

That said, I do think you are off the mark on some things. I don’t think Sylvanas and Helya are in it together as we already have insight into Sylvanas’ state of mind thanks to Before the Storm and A Good War (so we know she does not want to be Warchief and that her ultimate aim is to kill the humans of Stormwind, not the world). Also Sylvanas would have known about Helya from the Val’kyr. And Vol’jin never says he didn’t appoint Sylvanas Warchief, he would have said “it wasn’t me” when we interact with him in 8.1.5. He just doesn’t know who the spirit was (or even if they had bad intentions, nothing Vol’jin says rules out the same spirit to whisper the name Sylvanas is the same one that brought him back, he just doesn’t know anything except touched by the Hands of Valor.


If any octopus queen is going to rule, it’ll be Azshara >:c

(Alamara) #6

In my theory, turning Sylvanas into warchief was Helya’s idea without Sylvanas’ knowledge. Helya first put Sylvanas in power, then laid the breadcrumbs to lead Sylvanas to her.

As for killing Stormwind humans, IMO, that was her ambition before Azerite showed her greater possibilities and allowed her a reason to start a bigger war.

But then, why only seek Helya in Legion, not earlier?
Sylvanas’ val’kyr, AFAIK, are creations of the Lich King, created by copying Odyn’s ideas. They have no knowledge of Helya, IMO, or maybe they knew only a few things, but no true relation to her, and didn’t know of how to contact her.

Eyir does say that such powers (Hand of Destiny) do not conspire for mortal thrones, thought, so it stands to reason that the entity was the same that cut off Vol’jin’s connection with the loa.

I think robbing Sylvanas of her free will would diminish her as a character, as well as create an easy escapegoat for her crimes.

Also, the void has shown fear of Sylvanas, as “she serves the true enemy”, and Sylvanas talks a lot about “being death” or that other will “serve death” (her).

So, I think we may be seeing a conflict of Death and Void, with the factions acting as unknowing proxies.


I won’t claim to have followed all that, but I do wonder if Sylvanas’ plan is to kill Azeroth and resurrect her as a forsaken titan. If undead are truly immune to old god corruption, then this might be one of the only ways to get N’zoth out of Azshara and have Azshara stay some-kind-of alive.

Not to mention it could be a prelude to the next expansion when the Naaru come in force to kill the abomination our planet has become.

(Alamara) #8

I don’t think you turn a titan into undead, just like you can’t turn an elemental or an golem. One needs to be mortal to be undead. But, like with Argus, I think you could turn a titan into a “death titan”, an avatar consumed by the energies of Death itself. I just don’t think Sylvanas or Helya would have enough power to do so.

I think they’ll instead try to hasten Azeroth’s death, and use the released power to kill and raise as undead everything in the planet.

(Juulnel) #9

BFA story is a joke, none cares what happens next anymore.

(Alamara) #10

I think (hope) the third act will explain everything.

But the storytelling has been rather poor.

(Juulnel) #11

Just look what they have do to Night Elves.

(Alamara) #12

I don’t find the night elves’ circunstances a problem. I see it a lot like Lordaeron being destroyed in Warcraft 3: a dramatic turn of events and a seed for future conflict. However, the story is not well-told, and there lies the real problem. It’s Blizzard’s ability to tell the story, not the story itself.

(Ðoomaxe) #13

I didn’t know that about Helya. I know I didn’t like here when I was there. Definitely something I haven’t heard yet just hope Blizz does something cool and not screw up things or make it everything normal and not even touch on the implications of all that’s going on.

I see these things possible:

  1. Sylvanas using Xal’atath the Blade to either absorb the power of the Sword of Sargeras or N’zoth. Could be a threat that is unseen, or seen only by Sylvanas.
  2. A 3rd faction made up of both Alliance and Horde. Could either be because they don’t agree with their leaders choices, more so Horde, or they are followers of N’zoth and are after destroying Azeroth and their own faction in the process.

Definitely going to have to look up Helya and find out more about her now. Thanks. Intriguing post to say the least. :+1:


Only problem with the helya theory is that odyn is free to go where he wants now.

(Alamara) #15

I advice playing the Stormheim storyline in Legion, it shows Sylvanas dealings with Helya (thought we never found out what was Sylvanas’ part in their bargain), and is pretty much a prologue to BfA.

Helya is also the last boss in the Maw of Souls dungeon and the Trial of Valor raid (portals for both are in Stormheim). She was seemly killed for good in Trial of Valor, but a quest from Island Expeditions reveal Helya is not quite dead.

So, we have a not-completely-dead Helya and Sylvanas indebted to her.

My theory is that Helya’s death broke her spell over Odyn, but she survived in some new form thanks to her pact with Sylvanas. Imagine she’s some kind of spirit or presence bound to Sylvanas, whispering in the warchief’s ears.


No you are right that Helya is still alive. Its even stated in bfa she is returning.

My point is odyn is an ultra vengeful guy and wouldnt hesitate to stomp her out himself now that he can.

(Alamara) #17

Which is why she may be using the Horde as proxy for her scheme. No one can stop you if everyone believes you are dead (or don’t know where you are).

(Jessail) #18

I think you’re very close, but the foreshadowing I’ve seen in the books and cinematics leads me to believe the final raid will be an assault on Stormwind where Sylvanas raises all the dead in the city.


Odyn and the valajar know she isnt dead though.

(Alamara) #20

In my theory, that was Sylvanas’ original objective, but before Azerite was discovered. Once she finds out she can kill the very soul of the world, her ambitions become greater.

There’s some meta reasons for me to think Quel’thalas will be the final patch.

First, because of theme. Sylvanas’ story starts in Quel’thalas being killed by Arthas, so now she’s Arthas going to Quel’thalas. Quel’thalas also ties to Alleria and Vereesa, her sisters, making them present for the showdown, and to the void elves, which were introduced in BfA but whose story has went nowhere so far.

Second, because of some level of foreshadowing. There were two hints that there’s something voidy within the Sunwell, which ties in to the void elves again and to one of Il’gynoth’s whispers: “Its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below.”

Also, I think the reason Lor’themar is sent to Nazjatar in 8.2 is because Sylvanas wants him away from Quel’thalas.

There’s also Ogmot’s Journal, which has two dreams that I think foreshadow patches 8.2 and 8.3. The first dream pretty much describes the start of the Nazjatar story. The second dream is:

Today smoke rises up from da campfire. Smoke tells Ogmot good story.
Ogmot sees lady wrapped in dark swirlies. She leads herd of blind sheep.
Da sheepies follow her everplace she go. Do everthin she say. Never doubt lady.
She guide dem over tall cliff! SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT! Stupid sheepies!
Da crows get fat eatin da sheepflesh. Da lady laugh as crows eat!
Ogmot laugh too!

I think this means the final patch will have Sylvanas betraying the Horde in a major way, and I don’t see reason for her to do so if it’s just she invading Stormwind. What greater betrayal than bring the Alliance to attack Quel’thalas (because she’s there), then do her thing while the Horde is dying to defend her?

I know, you find out she’s not quite dead through the valarjar, but that doesn’t mean they know what she’s up to.