Sylvanas' endgame and BfA last patch (Speculation)

(Jessail) #21

I don’t see those as mutually exclusive. She could easily get the horde on board for an attack on Stormwind and use Quel’thelas and a false flag operation to lure the alliance army to their deaths up north. This would leave players to attempt (and fail) to defend Stormwind and then fight towards the sunwell. At which point… 9.0 falls into place.

(Alamara) #22

I’ll post here the Old God whispers we have gotten so far, and explain what I think of them and how they support my theory.



Back in Legion, Il’gynoth’s whispers seemed to be hinting at events in that same expansion. Now, however, it’s clear to me that they were foreshadowing events in BfA instead. Some of them have already turned true. Others are yet to happen.

My take:

Flesh is his gift. He is your true creator.


To find him, drown yourself in the circle of stars.

Confirmed we will see the Circle of Stars in 8.2. It’s where you fight Azshara.

The king of diamonds has been made a pawn.

Confirmed by 8.2 that Magni is the king of diamonds, and that he’s a pawn in the sense that his quest to empower the Heart of Azeroth will be the way to free N’Zoth.

The lord of ravens will turn the key.

I have no idea of what this means. Blizzard has said that the “final boss of BfA will be clear in Azshara’s end cinematic”, so maybe the Lord of Ravens will be revealed there?

The boy-king serves at the master’s table. Three lies will he offer you.

Anduin serves the Void. Like the King of Diamonds, he’s not aware of it.
I’ll talk about the three lies later, when discussing Ogmot’s dreams.

Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it.

Could be Sylvanas, but I think it’s Helya.

Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path.

Back in Legion everyone thought it was about the Pillars of Creation. I don’t know what are the keys and torches, but the player character has been called “the torch to light our path” by Xal’atath. Maybe it’s five artifacts and five characters? I don’t know.

At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming.

Like I said in the OP, I think it’s Helya, but it could also be Sylvanas.

From the earth, he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength.

This was foreshadowing Azerite.

Its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below.

I think this is about the Sunwell, as twice (nightborne recruitment and blood elf heritage armor quest) we’ve been shown there’s something voidy within the Sunwell.

Ogmot’s Dream Journal

Revealed among Silithus quests before BfA, Ogmot’s journal has two dreams, which I believe foreshadow patches 8.2 and 8.3, as well as some ominous disconnected lines that talk about different things.

Last night, Ogmot dreams of great battle. Two fleets bashin on ocean of blood.
Shadows twistin beneath da ships, risin. Risin. Ogmot so happy watching the carnage!
Then Ogmot gets waked up by skitterin sounds. Stupid bugs!
Dont matter. Ogmot knows dese dreams soon come true.

This is clearly talking about patch 8.2, as the two fleets are ambushed from bellow by Azshara.

Today smoke rises up from da campfire. Smoke tells Ogmot good story.
Ogmot sees lady wrapped in dark swirlies. She leads herd of blind sheep.
Da sheepies follow her everplace she go. Do everthin she say. Never doubt lady.
She guide dem over tall cliff! SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT! Stupid sheepies!
Da crows get fat eatin da sheepflesh. Da lady laugh as crows eat!
Ogmot laugh too!

I think this foreshadows Sylvanas’ betrayal. The moment she turns into “Arthas”.

Dat blade has shiny eye. Always watchin us. Why you no see it?

Back then, it seemed to talk about Sargeras’ sword. But now, feels like he’s talking about Xal’atath.

Three lies. Da first one been told.
Bound by dat throne? No. Free. Free!
Da next gonna come soon. Maybe dey see dis one.

Three lies, again. The first was told already, and I have no clue about what it was.

But second one, the “maybe dey see dis one”, seems to be revealed by Sylvanas: Anduin declared victory was near after Dazar’alor was invaded, and Sylvanas says the “boy king lies to his people about victory”. So I think it’s also related to 8.2 and how the Alliance is back to square one once its fleet is destroyed.

WHat will be the third lie?

I have no idea about the “Free from the throne” part, thought. Is it about N’Zoth? Anduin? Lich King? Azshara?


These are whispers within Crucible of Storms. Like Il’gynoth’s, they may not be about what happens in BfA, but hints for next expansion, as they seem largely unrelated to current plots.

The veil wanes. His crown will open the way

I have no idea. Suggestions?

When the arrow finds its mark, the last fetter will fall away.

Is this about the third death? Will it be caused by arrow, freeing N’Zoth and “ushering our way”?
Or maybe it’s about Alleria’s last fetter (Arator) being struck by Sylvanas’ arrow, making her lose control over of the Void?

The Light has struck a bargain with the enemy of all.

Seems to talk about Calia Menethil. But how does this ties with everything else? I don’t know.

The night has fallen, revealing her true face. She will bring only ruin.

This is probably about Tyrande and the night warrior.

(Droité) #23

Death seems to be perceived as the enemy of the Void; and from what we’ve seen any time ANY entity wishes to mess with “Undeath” they are tapping into the Shadowlands to do it. The Legion did this with the Plague of Undeath; the Titan Keepers did this with the Val’kyr; and now the Naru have presumably done with this Calia. Thus, “The Light has struck a bargain with the enemy of all”.

Also, agree on the Ogmot Journal: Sylvie thing (though, since her “Blind Sheep” are her Forsaken, I would guess she’s going to betray them in a pretty massive way going forward.

(Snikrot) #24

I’m a fan of this theory, awesome job!


I really really enjoy these theories that are being brought up. More please!!

(Jessail) #26

My bet would be Khadgar, the great staff atiesh has a ‘Raven form’ and if you look at his clothes they bear that resemblance. He’s definitely not innocent in all of this. That staff was borne by Mehdiv before him and look how that turned out.

My bet is Sylvanas, there is a quest you get from the Island expeditions that makes the point that Death (Helya) cannot die. As usual with these things it’s never 100%. But like a cat I doubt this is Sylvanas’ last death.

It could be, it could also be referencing Azeroth herself. The old gods are ‘sealed beneath the surface’ allegedly. The titans were trying desperately to keep her from being corrupted by them. I think this is far less clear.

So to me this is an attack on Stormwind harbor. Something Saurfang said flat out would be a failure. But without any of the horde racial leaders around really… (all the ones that are major are in Nazjatar). I can see Sylvanas getting away with this and nobody calling her out. This was something that Saurfang said explicitly they could hold the harbor, but not for long. My suspicion is that Sylvanas doesn’t care she’s expects everybody to die, so she can resurrect them as forsaken.

It could also be referencing Bolvar. On that note: I don’t think Taelia is as innocent or as naive as she’s been made out to be. I think somehow she’s well aware of who and what her father is. But it seems to be that the light has struck a bargain with death. Right now the personification of death on Azeroth is the Lich King, it’s worth noting that I think that Nerzul is back somehow… in what capacity I don’t know.

I think it’s actually about Elune. Elune isn’t exactly a wonderfully benevolent goddess as people like to believe. She grants power to those that revere her, regardless of stripes.

(Ðoomaxe) #27

Divide and conquer. I could actually see that happening now that you mention it. You lure each to the others city making them think they can take it. Then the N’zoth followers surprise both sides. I like it. Of course that means the Horde loses another Warchief which I do not like. Can’t we all just get along.

EDITED: I just saw that you posted this
“Confirmed by 8.2 that Magni is the king of diamonds, and that he’s a pawn in the sense that his quest to empower the Heart of Azeroth will be the way to free N’Zoth.”

Could Azerite be what is keeping him from coming and because both factions are hell bent on getting as much as possible it weakens that which stops his coming? Would make sense with Sylvanas wanting us to mine the crap out of it.

(Jessail) #28

If my suspicions are even half correct, we all lose. This is an expansion we don’t ‘Win’ in the end as it’s literally just setup for 9.0.

(Ðoomaxe) #29

So another Cata-like world makeover?

(Jessail) #30

Possible my current thoughts are:

  1. Nyalotha, which is an underlay of our world
  2. The shadowlands
  3. Cata: Part 2 the voidening

Pretty much in that order. But at this point I’d put the probability of me being right about any of this at less than 1%.

Edit: One of my tin foil hat theories is that we’ve actually been in a shadow dream since fighting C’thun in vanilla or Y’ogg in Lich king. That 9.0 is actually going to be us waking up.

(Alamara) #31

My bet is in a revamp of the franchise. A soft reboot.

Like, we jump 10 years and have updated EK and Kalimdor. But it’s not like Cataclysm, they don’t just update the maps, they completely remake them, allowing us to “timewalk” to the old zones if we want.

Blizzard could seize the opportunity to revamp leveling as well, as right now leveling is very messy, so maybe we could see some EK/Kalimdor zones only for the new levels, while others could be shared with low level characters, and leveling becomes quickier.

The fact that patches in BfA are tanking longer than Legion makes me think Blizzard is stalling so the huge effort of remaking EK and Kalimdor has extra time to be finished. Also, the Warfronts may be a way for Blizzard to reuse work on maps and cut costs.

The base expansion would just have known zones, completely revamped (some of them would look completely different, like the former Plaguelands). It would be about exploration of this familiar but different world.

Then the patches go into new places and set the whole franchise in new directions .

So, WoW 2, but as a expansion rather than a new game.

(Jessail) #32

This is why the tin foil “We’ve been sleeping since c’thun” makes sense to me mechanically. It lets them do a level squish with a plausible lore reason.

TBF they’ve been looking for an excuse to kill all PC’s since cata…

(Alamara) #33

A “soft reboot” is when a story is set to a new beginning without destroying past continuity,. Basically, everything that happened is still canon, but we close the main threads of the story, take a small break (timeskip) and start anew. Past things can still influence the new direction, but usually you explore new themes mostly, at least at first.

(Jessail) #34

Yeah the only way I can see that happening is separating the character sets though. So a ‘New’ character starts at level 1 in the new time point. Our old characters remain but are ‘Legacy’. Much like Diablo Seasons.

(Alamara) #35

I don’t think they’ll touch our characters. I think it will be a short timeskip (like ten years), and most races live way longer than humans anyway.

However, since they’d revamp leveling, there would be incentive to make whole new characters as well.

(Jessail) #36

Oh I think our existing characters will still be there. Just… retired or ‘sleeping in the void dream’ the new characters will have to rescue us.

(Alamara) #37

I think the choice to retire the character will be solely a player-based thing. I don’t think forced retirement would be very welcome.

Maybe Blizzard introduces a system in which you make a new character that is an apprentice or heir of the original one, but I think that should be optional. I’d like to keep my elf.


But…hasn’t Sylvanas died twice? Could this quote not just as easily be about her?

(Alamara) #39

She died thrice already: Arthas killed her, then suicide by saronite at Icecrown, then headshot from behind by traitorous gilnean noble in Silverpine.

Unless it considers her first death her “birth” and only counts two deaths as undead.

(Jessail) #40

Not sure she actually died in icecrown. That’s up for debate as there is ample evidence that the vision of torment shown to her was a lie.