How we REALLY got our TBC honor (with sources)

I know its “2008 vision” so its hard to see, but toward the END of the expansion the numbers looked similar to this.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hExikWBzpI

https://imgur.com/a/rgq4hwi - 273 honor for WSG win comparing against live’s 700 honor for WSG win prenerf this is roughly a factor of 2.5 times not 10. It’s normally 140 but from a WSG weekend, but even normally that would be a factor of 5 compared to live, not 10.

https://imgur.com/a/QlxIin8 - Another 272 honor for WSG win

https://imgur.com/a/3ECNRk9 - 355 honor for AB win comparing against live’s 2100 honor for AB win prenerf this is roughly a factor of (5.91) 6 times not 10.

https://imgur.com/a/xFNUEhp - 546 honor for 16 minute AV win -
Compared to the prenerf average of 3,100 honor for a 4 tower Burn + Galv kill + 4 towers survive on your side + Belinda survive on alliance side. Even the best case AV scenario compared to whatever this win was…is a factor of 5.67 not 10 its about a factor of 6 on a perfect game that was a 3500 honor win.

https://imgur.com/a/lrixf05 - This is a screenshot of an AB win, winner had 509 honor, roughly a factor of 4. This is running off 2.4.3 client.

Now here’s where this gets flipped on its head - This wasn’t even the highest source of honor in our battlegrounds during TBC BY A LONG SHOT

Here are the things that aren’t on live that should be…
Source - https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_2.4.0

  • Diminishing returns on honor for kills is being eliminated.

Not only were kills not diminished late in the game, the base honor per kill was VASTLY DIFFERENT and actually had a value that wasn’t +1 honor.

I’m currently getting 14 honor for a solo kill of a level 60 as a level 60 with no one else involved in the kill. This is EXTREMELY off lolz.
https://imgur.com/a/24ghWFG

Meanwhile in this Original TBC 2.0 prepatch video…they get way more after ally splits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsgImO4Dh7U
AV 40 honor for a single kill - 13:25

Yet on live we get 1 honor per kill divided consistently as full kill honor is only 14.
I think its also a ranking issue too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsgImO4Dh7U
This first clip was a “flashback to vanilla” which is why the kill was over 200 honor and should be ignored.
At 0:49 and beyond this is prepatch 2.0 kill data throughout the video. Numbers ranging between 16, 25, 40 honor per kill even mitigated by allies in the group that were leeching honor from a distance.

Note how all the levels are 60.
41 point talent silencing shot is on the bars.
No TBC talents (i.e. Aspect of the Viper, Kill Command, Steady Shot) exist atm.

Note these kills suffer from diminishing returns and were still way more than enough.
1:45 - 31 honor gained on a kill.
2:05 - 27 honor
2:20 - 26 honor

It’s entirely possible the honor values are reflecting the rank of the player

  • If a player dies 50 times or more in a battleground, they will no longer be worth honor for the remainder of that battle.

This change was made because a great deal of the honor gained in battlegrounds were from HKs and many AVs and WSGs involved HK farming to this level since the honor gained was far higher. How much higher? High enough to not even care about the bonus honor in WSG and AB easily.

Why were HKs such a high amount of honor back then? Well you needed to reward players for spending time in battlegrounds to prevent people from AFKing fast losses and having games where you fought and killed each other was the best way to remedy this problem!

This is why people remember the grind being way faster despite the horrible objective based honor values.

We are running off the same patch era that introduced

Source
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_2.3.0

Alterac Valley

  • Horde players will now start the battle closer to Drek’Thar and Frostwolf Keep.
  • Honor from capturing towers has been increased.
  • All Commanders and Lieutenants have left Alterac Valley in search for other battle opportunities.

Objective Based honor compared to prenerf 2.5 is roughly a factor of 2.5x on battleground weekends and a factor of 5x regularly using the 140/272 WSG vs 700 WSG as an example.

(Edits to formatting so its easier to look at)

The last confirming source would be this…which confirms exactly how honor was calculated during prepatch for honorable kills.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/prepatch-honor-and-why-it-wasnt-an-issue-in-201/972654

Post 1.8 CP+ numbers divided by 10 was your prepatch HK number.
Rank 1 - 198 (20)
Rank 2 - 210 (21)
Rank 3 - 221 (22)
Rank 4 - 233 (23)
Rank 5 - 246 (25)
Rank 6 - 260 (26)
Rank 7 - 274 (27)
Rank 8 - 289 (29)
Rank 9 - 305 (31)
Rank 10 - 321 (32)
Rank 11 - 339 (34)
Rank 12 - 357 (36)
Rank 13 - 377 (38)
Rank 14 - 398 (40)

The 3 digit number was the original vanilla value for an HK, the number in parathesis is the amount you got on prepatch.

TLDR - We are receiving honor changes from some patches and not receiving honor changes from other patches, this is creating a situation where we have none of the honor income rewards from any of them. We don’t have the Ranking system HK rewards that were in 2.0.1 and Season 1 and we don’t get the concerted efforts quest for turnin because we aren’t 61-70.

1396 Likes

this is exactly the post we needed its hard to see but i think it works

78 Likes

REMEMBER FOLKS - no conspiracy here!

95 Likes

yeah i remember this now. we used to camp the AV spawn points and aoe it down to farm honor because it was more efficient than just winning the AV

great work

55 Likes

This primary thing to be gleaned from this is that we are getting no honor for kills basically when in original TBC we got almost all of our honor from HKs. On 2.5 we are getting 1 per kill, in original TBC even divided across a massive AV raid we still got an extraordinarily higher number.

This is why people remember a far shorter grind, because we did have a shorter grind and it wasn’t objective based honor carrying us here.

58 Likes

Bump for incompetent Blizzard fools to see.

169 Likes

Thank you for this. This is the type of post we need to figure out the honor problem.

46 Likes

exactly which is why gy farming

WAS honor farming

30 Likes

Good work bro bring the real facts to the surface

38 Likes

Thanks for taking the time to put this together. I played prepatch back in day and I knew the “fix” was 100% wrong.

53 Likes

keep this post bumped, this is the correct info we needed, not just whining. here are some more 2.0 vids that showcase honor per kill being MUCH MUCH higher than is currently implemented

35 Likes

There’s definitely a need for the fix, but the problem is that it feels a bit off while the base honor value on an honorable kill is completely gone when it should be somewhere around 50-100 (then divided across the number of players in range of the kill).

12 Likes

Gj andy and kaivax :+1:

14 Likes

yep agreed and a 50% nerf would be about right/fair

17 Likes

I’m just wondering if we do get the old TBC honorable kill values, how optimized the kill farm meta would be lmfao.

3 Likes

It will change the meta for sure. Turtle games of AV will be the most honor per hour more than likely, which I personally am just fine with, plus you can /afk whenever you want or need since honor gains are instant.

11 Likes

You’re doing god’s work, friend.

14 Likes

Commenting in hopes that Blizz sees this. I do recall farming AV exactly for this reason. Even if the games were longer, you got to kill players constantly and the honor from those kills stacked up. So regardless of if you won or loss, you still walked away with alot of honor if you were in the heat of battle.

7 Likes

The other problem though is prepatch length.
Original prepatch gave players 5-6 weeks to do all of this. Now we only have 12 days.

9 Likes

We need Andy to post this so it gets picked up straight away!

31 Likes