First of all I just want to mention that everything that follows has nothing to do with how fun I find the game mode because its by far (not even close really) my favorite game mode even with the hero stacking issue (i love the randomness and theres ZERO toxicity)…that does not mean however that it doesnt have a MAJOR problem and it could use improvement…
Jeff has spoken about possibly having a version without hero stacking in the past though and I do wonder if thats actually something that is being worked on…he also acknowledges that its a devisive issue even amongst the devs…so where in the past i wouldve said lets just replace the mode im now asking if we can get an alternate version…it wouldnt even be a hard change to do (just add same game mode and flip one modifier from on to off)
The Issue
Put simply, the mode CANNOT handle hero stacking…by itself this one mechanic decides most of the matches…for a couple of very simple reasons
you cannot switch to counters - duh, the game mode picks random characters (best part of the mode and the biggest reason why i find it fun)…well unfortunately the majority of the characters in the game synergize very well with themselves
few examples:
- zarya’s can feed each other bubbles
- turret characters can cover each other
- reins or orisas alternating shields
- mercys ressing each other
and more importantly some characters are just plain hard to deal with even when theres just one of them (brig, pharah, tracer)…so the game mode can very easily swing just based on either team getting a hero stack (some worse than others)…this isnt no limits where you can simply just switch to counters and in general negate the effect of one team getting 2 of something…so it honestly doesnt matter which character theres 2 of…you cannot adjust to it
but theres more
It completely messes up ult economy - in a mode where obtaining an ultimate is even more important than normal (since youre not guaranteed to ever get one), a hero stack usually means that they WILL be getting ults more often…for the simple reason that they are just harder to deal with and eliminate…swinging the odds even more in favor of said team…(also tends to cause a snowball effect)
timing - if you play the mode this is the most obvious one…depending on when they happen it can pretty much lead to an objective being captured/held because if its late in the timer there simply isnt enough time for the opposing team to have RNG grant them a good countering comp…(MAJOR snowball contributer)
Data
Ive actually taken it upon myself to keep track of the MH games i play on 2 separate occasions (back in march and this past week), because i know many are going to accuse me of just making this stuff up…
what follows is a list of notes that i took of games as i was playing them (so dont expect super in depth details of every minute)…generally i try to jot down what i notice both teams are doing when they take objectives…it is NOT a list to showcase wins and losses as frankly i dont care about that (and in fact it probably shows that its pretty even as you would expect with RNG - its not like my team never gets stacks)…its meant solely to showcase how OFTEN hero stacking affects the outcomes of said matches …and again i dont believe the outcomes should be decided simply because of this…its a terrible mechanic to have in a skill based game
GAME LOG
2/27
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volskaya defense - triple roadhog after losing first point - WIN - not even close…enemy team never made it past the second choke point
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junkertown defense - after rolling with ease to last point enemy team got a double dva comp right at the end and that was enough til end of rund - LOSS
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hanamura offense - enemy team had double moiras…we never made it past first choke - LOSS
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hollywood offense - double bastion…team took close to 4 minutes completely stalled on first point…until we got triple pharah…only to then get stuck at the end due to double orisa - LOSS
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anubis defense - we get double symmetras and double mercy on last point…enemy team may as well have given up right then and there - WIN
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Oasis - first round win though enemy team got a second mercy spawn right before round ended…that carried to next round where they win 100-0…third round we manage to kill the mercys near the end…they come back as double DVA - LOSS
3/5 (first 5 games of the day)
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numbani offense - get past first point…second point 2 enemy had 2 torbjorns and a bastion waiting…LOSS
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numbani defense - double pharah with a mercy - enemy team never really contested 1st point WIN
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junkertown offense - roll through 1st and second points…double zaryas on defense - about pointless minutes later we kill their mercy…she comes out as another zarya - LOSS
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join with 5 secs left (you see!!!
!!!) -
volskaya defense - double lucios - enemy “rolled” through both points in about 90 secs - LOSS
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ilios - we get double moiras at ~50%…round over…2nd round we get double torbs at around 30%…round over - WIN
3/8 (first 6 games)
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hanamura defense - enemy triple reaper at spawn…game over LOSS
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numbani defense - double mei before first point…additional double dva second point…game over LOSS
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no stacking in this game - loss but didnt matter it was close whole time
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lunar colony offense - enemy double orisa + bastion - never a contest - LOSS
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kings row attack - take first and second points - enemy team triple zaryas at 3rd point - pointless 4 minutes - LOSS
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first win of day…no stacking
3/11 (the epitome of why this is broken)
- kings row attack - enemy double orisa/double dva/roadhog at spawn…miracle dva bomb kills orisas…they come back as torbs…gruel out kills of the torbs…double dvas again in addition to 1 from earlier…so 3 dvas…LOSS no matter how well we played
3/18
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volskaya attack - we had double mercys at spawn … steamroll…not sure if anyone died - WIN
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kings row defense - double moiras after first point - LOSS
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volksaya offense - triple torb on 1st point - laughably funny…LOSS
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hanamura offense - double bastion on first point…never contested…LOSS
3/21
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hollywood attack - enemy team got 4(!) moiras after first point…round ended right there - LOSS
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blizzworld attack - we get double symmetra and double mercy at spawn…literally steamrolled all the way to end WIN
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dorado attack - take first and second points - 3rd point double mercys come out… LOSS
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gibraltar defense -lose first point with double hogs…stall them on 3rd point…get double lucios…instant LOSS
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gibraltar offense - enemy gets double symmetra and bastion on last point…game over LOSS
3/22
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lijian tower - first round 3 DVAs…2nd round they end up getting 2 Brigittes and 2 torbs…both LOSSES
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no stacking noticeable…WIN
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Blizz def - double brigitte on second point…complete stall…LOSS
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volskaya attack - double lucio…easy roll…WIN
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normal game - LOSS on 3rd point
3/23
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dorado def - double pharah on first point - enemy never progressed…WIN
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dorado att - normal match WIN
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Holly def - double orisa and torb pirate ship - never a contest…LOSS
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hollywood att - 2nd point double bastion - instant LOSS
10/27
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Hollywood Dec - Attacking team started the match with 3 mercys which then turned into 2 brigs - from the first obejective to the last objective the payload never stopped moving - Never in doubt LOSS
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Anubis Def - Attacking team rolled through first point with double Lucios, very long hold on 2nd pt after we managed to kill 1…no stacking at end - WIN
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Numbani Def - Hold 1st pt for 3 minutes until enemy got 2 Lucios…rolled all the way to the last pt where 1 died after it was too late - LOSS
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Junkertown Att - Take first and 2 pts in a span of about 2 minutes with double hogs…eventually win with no noticeable stacking at the end - WIN
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Nepal - 1st pt - 2 Lucios hold (noone died) - WIN, 2nd pt - no stacking - WIN
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Gibraltar Def - 2 Mercy storm through first point, 1 died and the entire rest of round was normal - WIN
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Oasis - 1st pt - hold first point until 2 Winstons - no contest rest of way (LOSS), 2nt pt - enemy quickly got 2 Dvas…never close - LOSS
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Lunar Colony Def - Enemy storms through 1st objective (normally) - we manage to stall 2 attacks on 2nd objective with double hog…eventually lost normally - LOSS
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Dorado attack - normal first point…about to cap 2nd pt…enemy comes out with double DVA - no contest from there forward - LOSS
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Hollywood Def - Hold first point until 2 Sombras, hold 2nd pt until enemy shows up with 2 moiras and 2 junkrats…payload didnt stop moving rest of way - no contest LOSS
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Oasis - 1st pt - start with 2 mei and 2 bastions - no contest win, 2nd pt - melee at beginning but we come back with 2 brig and 2 winston - Instant WIN
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Lunar Colony Def - Hold first point until 20 secs left - 2 sombra help take and then snowball into EMP slaughter - LOSS
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Numbani Def - normal first pt, 2 pharah 2nd pt, normal win after 5 mins of holding last pt - came very close to losing when enemy came out with double ana and double rein mei ult only reason we won - WIN
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Route 66 Def - normal 1st and 2nd pt losses, we got double dva on pt 3…never came close after that WIN
10/28
- Rialto Att - 1st pt normal, we got 3 Dva’s at pt 2…payload never stopped moving - WIN
10/29
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Blizzworld Att - take first pt easily double Mei, normal finish - WIN
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Busan - 1st - 2 Dva -> 2 Dva again! no contest, 2nd - managed to kill a Dva right at the end but otherwise no contest - WIN
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Anubis Att - 2 Dva to take first point easily, normal finish - WIN
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Dorado Def - 2 Zens to start payload couldnt even round the first building, manage to kill a zen with about 30 secs remaining and took first point but we held normally at 2nd - WIN
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Eichenvalde Att - enemy started with 3 Mercys - barely managed to take obj time, then enemy held at 3rd pt with 3 hanzos…didnt not move payload until we got 2 Moira at which point we steam rolled - WIN
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Hanamura Att - Only stack was 3 Sombras at the end when the objective was already pretty much decided - normal WIN
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Route 66 Att - take first pt with 2 bastions, the rest of the way we had 2 Zaryas then 2 Moiras then 2 Brigs…payload never stopped moving - WIN
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Oasis - 1st - 2 Zens…no contest (loss), 2nd - we held pt 99-0 when 2 Dvas showed up…eventually managed a win, 3rd - normal round WIN
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Numbani - take first 2 pts easily…rest of round was against double Moira - i dont think a single enemy died after that - no contest LOSS
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Nepal - 1st - double reaper…no contest win, 2nd - normal WIN
The Result
You combine all of aobve and the result is that the majority of the time the games are literally decided NOT by the players but simply by who manages to luck into the hero stacks and when…think about that…player skill is completely thrown out the window because usually it cant make up for the disadvantage thats being presented…in a game thats supposed to be about player skill no less (in this case with all the heroes)
i said fun isnt the reason why im putting this on here…and its not…but that doesnt mean its not a affected…how fun is it to hold a point for 4 minutes only for a team to round a corner with 2 brigs in the final 30 secs and you simply dont have a single thing that can deal with that…its FUN for them (i guess - i cant tell you how many times ive been bored simply because i know we already won even though we’re still on point A)…absolutely terrible for the other team (its the whole mass rez, scatter argument)
games should be decided by players…not by RNG…and yes that applies to a game mode where RNG is still present…fact of the matter is if you removed this, RNG would STILL be present…the mode would still be “Mystery Heroes”…RNG could still play a role (its not like there arent bad combos: pharamercy, bastion/torb/orisa, meatball comps)…but at least the number of character comps that are potentially game breaking would be drastically reduced (not to mention the ones that do show up are at least something that youre used to seeing in game)…plus you already have two game modes where hero stacking is prevalent…so its not like you cant get that in game anymore if thats what you want to do
I dont even think it would be a question of feeling…im POSITIVE that it would be a way better version if it didnt have the hero stacking
TL:DR - its not a question of the game mode not being fun, Mystery Heroes (the game mode) literally cannot handle hero stacking…it is deciding matches all by itself…I would love to see the devs actually add in an alternate version without it as they said they have considered in the past…