Excluding the Slime Cat from LFR is not Okay

Community WoW Community Council
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I am well aware you guys know this is not being well received by the community:

And many more, including on the EU forums, which are notoriously known for being mostly dead.

And for good reason. The achievement that grants it states just clear the raids while they’re fated:

As you can see, it just says complete the raids while fated. Not “On Normal Difficulty” like the next 2 achievements.

Last I checked, even in your official post, LFR raids will indeed be fated - so are they suddenly not the same raid?

On top of this, due to the lack of communication in LFR, LFR is arguably harder to complete than Normal most of the time, apart from the last couple bosses. LFR N’zoth was harder than Mythic N’zoth due to this, from a friend who did both.

I do not like to be accusatory, however, in this case, it is the only logical answer - it feels like you guys purposely left out the fact it won’t be in LFR specifically to avoid feedback like this over the past few months, so you can later say “We didn’t see any feedback about it, so our plan stays.”

Stop treating casual players like the content we do and us in general don’t matter - we already have no way to get higher ilvl gear as a casual player in Season 4. Our outdoor gear can’t be upgraded. Which means our “endgame” is now LFR. Which has no meaningful reward tied to it now that you’ve made this decision. The gear isn’t even much higher than the outdoor gear most of us already have. (Some casual players may venture into m0s, but I doubt it as forming m0 groups is annoyingly difficult this late into an expansion)

Stop treating Casual Players like we don’t matter. Casual players, as I’m sure you know, are the backbone for this game. We know you know this because when you made anti-casual changes at the start of MoP, you lost one of the biggest loss of subscribers you’ve ever had and scrambled to try to get people back, and never did. (To note, MoP started with over 10 mil subs and by the end they were at 6.8) And despite popular belief, it was not infact from Siege of Orgrimmar:

It was indeed from the anti-alt and anti-casual things they added that they tried to do a 180 and fix, but never most of those casual players back.

I thought you guys were doing good with casual players with the ilvl we could get from outdoor content in 9.1 and 9.2, but this undoes all of that if it goes live like this.

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So this may be a controversial thing to say. But since when does having something cosmetic take an ounce of effort to achieve, treating a group like they don’t matter? I feel it’s a pretty “Just give me everything” mentality and removes any sense of accomplishment people may get. I’m not really invested in where the mount comes from, but I do feel if we could login and just “pick” every item in the game to go into our bags, the game would be doing worse?

Also the difficulty is irrelevant as normal does have an “interact” element, so even if it’s easier it is requiring more from a person. To also bring in Ilvl can be odd too? Since this is a mount. Just my thoughts though, seems very aggressive/heated from a lot of players. Let me login to… select any reward from any point in the game?

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This is the type of response that boils my blood.

Much like I said, this is treating casual players like our content doesn’t matter.

You are essentially saying our content is just a handout mode, when it isn’t. You are literally belittling our content.

LFR takes hours to complete. I’ve spent more time in LFR clearing bosses than I ever do in Normal, because again, there’s no coordination in LFR, even if you try to start some.

On top of this, the LFR will be fated, just like Normal+, meaning they will have the added mechanics as well.

Stop treating casual players like we just want handouts - we want rewards for our content just like you do. And we were led to believe for the past few months that the SLime Cat would be one of those rewards

Or should we also remove things like the guaranteed mount drop from Mythic Raids, since that’s quite literally a handout for killing a boss? (And no, this isn’t an actual suggestion, just pointing out the hypocrisy of accusing casual players of wanting handouts when endgame players are quite literally given handouts to encourage them doing the content.)

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I don’t believe I am? I am sorry if I am. But I also feel “Demanding” something is in bad taste as well. For instance normal has no reward tied to it, so be it from normal or LFR it leaves 1 still without a reward.

I feel turning the discussion into an “attack” on “Casuals” is disingenuous as casual doesn’t imply effort to reward.

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We aren’t “demanding” anything - we were purposely led to believe for the past 3 months that it was a reward for LFR as well.

The complaints today would not be happening if the achievement had stated “In Normal.” No, it states any difficulty.

They waited until the very last minute to reveal it wouldn’t be in LFR. And as I said, I believe that was on purpose so they could say they didn’t hear feedback about it.

And again, you just insult casual players again. Do you genuinely not understand how hurtful and hateful those words are?

A lot of casual players put a lot of effort into what they do - just because they aren’t clearing the same content as you doesn’t mean their effort is any less important.

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And again, you just insult casual players again. Do you genuinely not understand how hurtful and hateful those words are?

A lot of casual players put a lot of effort into what they do - just because they aren’t clearing the same content as you doesn’t mean their effort is any less important.

Maybe I worded my message poorly? I’m stating casual does not imply effort to reward. So a more casual player can achieve anything in this game a “hardcore” player can and that’s good. I was more pointing out the implication of casual. I’ve played this game both casually and more hardcore, and if I didn’t achieve something I felt that was ok, same as when I take the game much more hardcore.

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As this is the end of the expansion, I hoped that the Slime Cat mount would also be obtainable via LFR. I kinda felt like the mount was a reward for trying the new stuff out, seems odd to add LFR raids to fated but not award the mount for doing them.

As this is the end of the expansion, some people’s friends or guilds most likely have left and wont return until Dragonflight which might make it harder for some people to get groups.

I hear people say that you can just do normal via the group finder, though I am sure some people will be picky with what ilvl of people they accept (at least for the very first few weeks)

I do think that maybe there should have been an reward tied to every difficulty that was different from the others, but the mount should be obtainable by all. So, maybe add in a new title for Normal?

I think when this mount / season was announced, I looked at it like the anniversary events. A bit of fun with some older raids that gives a mount to everyone for their participation.

If the Mount stays Normal and above only, I will probably wait a month or so and see if I can get a normal group on group finder as that’s the only option for me really.

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That’s the problem - casual players won’t be able to find a group for Normal.

They excluded outdoor gear progression from season 4.

Most casual players will be capped at ilvl252 gear. Good luck finding a group for normal in that.

Unless you hate yourself and run LFR every week and get lucky with drops. But that just cycles back to - “If we’re being forced into LFR as our endgame, why is there no reward, especially the one we were led to believe would be a reward for 3 months”

It’s completely different to now, when Casual Players can get Normal raid ilvl gear through effort in their content - but in Season 4, our content only gives gear a little above heroic DUNGEON gear.

EDIT: ANd for the record, if they said something like “It will not be available initially via LFR, but it will be once Fated raids are on every raid each week.” then it’d be fine. Giving Normal+ the Slime Cat ahead of time and having LFR be able to earn it later in the season when most guilds stop running it would be fine.

But no, the official stance right now is never.

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Making it available in LFR basically turns it into an LFR mount. You get everything checked off the list at day1 of the ID. There will be less incentive to do normal and upward for it.

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See the last part of my last post.

As it stands now, there’s zero incentive to run LFR, and will be even less in season 4.

One of the most popular themes in the threads I linked and the others is they were hoping it would revitalize the interest in LFR.

Though it is somewhat worrisome you think most guilds won’t clear fated raids the first week they’re available.

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As someone that suffers from Psoriatic Arthritis and have for a number of years, doing organized raiding content isn’t really something I do anymore.

The achievement stated for the longest time that the mount would be obtainable in any difficulty level, so I’m quite perplexed that the decision was made to exclude LFR as an option to attain the mount.

I’m okay with exclusive content for higher difficulties, but this mount doesn’t represent a Mythic raid type mount. This is a mount that should be attainable by anyone that puts in the time to do these raids regardless of what difficulty they are on.

I don’t feel like performing these tasks on LFR is a hand-out or asking for anything for free. You still have to put in the time and effort to do the raids. It just doesn’t require you to use Discord, a headset, organize a set time aside to coordinate with a group of other individuals to accomplish your goal.

By removing this option, it absolutely will dissuade me from trying to attain it.

I do have the free time, but I choose not to be a burden on anyone due to my disability. Playing LFR gives me a chance to experience the content on my own time, my own terms without the need to bring down the DPS of an organized group. Sure, I have friends, but I don’t want a carry or have to ask for a spot, it shouldn’t come to this.

This is something that should be available for every type of player skill level. This is a special season 4, it’s under unusual and special circumstances, this isn’t your typical AOTC mount or Mythic raid mount that turns into .01% droprate when the expansion ends.

Very disappointed in Blizzard’s stance and decision on this. It doesn’t fit their motto of, “listening to player feedback”, this new mantra they’ve taken on for Dragonflight.

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Kinda insane they can continue to make the same mistakes when it comes to mounts.

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In my guild, we also had that discussion of “it says any difficulty, will that include LFR?” And the universal answer to our own question was “no way it’s gonna be LFR, it’ll be normal and up.”

We were so certain that one player in our guild who is casual and does not raid outside of LFR, spoke up and said the Slime Cat was his dream mount, so he wanted to raid with us in Season 4 just for the mount. We’re now organizing dungeon groups to get him geared up so he can join us for his first normal-difficulty raid.

I’m not even positive there will be LFR-difficulty Fated Raids (with the affixes enabled).

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14

My stance on this is mostly neutral at the moment, though I think I could be convinced one way or the other depending on the details.

Scenario 1 – Fear Of Missing Out (FOMO) Scheme Applied

In this scenario, the Slime Cat is removed from the game in 10.0. Personally, I feel like the FOMO tactic is unnecessary and potentially adds a level of stress for some players. Also, if we are being honest when it comes to difficulty, the most difficult thing for most guilds progressing on Normal difficulty is recruiting enough people for their raid. While this is funny to some, this is a very real challenge for others. Adding a time limit to the situation seems unnecessary here – especially when Season 4 will be 3 - 4 months and access to a third of the requirements cycles every 3 weeks. Therefore, while I really don’t like the FOMO tactic, if developers insist it is necessary, then the Slime Cat should probably be available via LFR.

Scenario 2 – No FOMO is Applied

In this scenario, the Slime Cat is not removed from the game, and the Fated raid mechanic continues indefinitely. Here, the pressure to get the mount by a certain time is removed. This means the Fated raid mechanic continues into Dragonflight. While it may take 10 – 25 players to complete the content throughout the rest of Shadowlands, it may become manageable by 7 – 8 people by Season 1 in Dragonflight. Maybe a well geared group of 5 can complete this by Season 2 or 3 in Dragonflight. Maybe in 2 -3 years it can be soloed.

In other words, as time goes on it requires less skill. However, players unable / unwilling to put in the time and effort will simply have to wait longer in order to gain access to the Slime Cat. Therefore, in this scenario, I think keeping the Slime Cat at a Normal difficulty level would be fine. Though, if enough people wanted it to be included with LFR, then that would probably be fine too.

Now if they chose to keep the Slime Cat for Normal difficulty, maybe a nice consolation prize for completing Fated LFR difficulty raids could be offering one of the following rewards:

  1. Recolor for each armor type from one of the raids (this may incentivize more activity to collect all 4 armor types)
  2. A pet
  3. A cache of Maw-themed weapon transmogs that didn’t make the original cut into the game
  4. Slime-themed transmog (Cosmetic category) to match the Slime Cat

Gearing up to Queue for LFR

Finally, currently, you can get an ilvl that exceeds current LFR ilvl via content in Zereth Mortis. Naturally, this takes a little time and consistency, but it can be done. With Sandsworn Relics becoming BoA, maybe it would be a nice option to use them to upgrade Sandsworn Relic gear to ilvl 265 (I think this is the ilvl of Fated LFR gear). Perhaps, 200 Sandsworn Relics bumps the gear up 5 ilvls at a time. The numbers here are just place-holders, but I thought the concept might be worth mentioning.

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Its def not impossible to hit normal and full clear it with LFG but leaving LFR out seems kinda lame

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Who cares if it’s an “LFR mount”? Others getting it on LFR doesn’t diminish your achievements in higher difficulties. If your argument is that people only raid for the mount and it should therefore be difficult, why are you not advocating to lock it behind mythic only?

There’s no reason to not make a mount available on LFR if it’s also on normal, see GMOD for example.

If this mount would be the only reason people will raid, then there’s no gain from adding it only to normal and higher.

LFR is as much part of the content as anything else.

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I mean, we’ve been told why they’re doing it.

I understand that I never had the intention to get this mount from LFR. But. If Blizzard’s intention is to have players need to socialize and communicate to get this reward I genuinely think that is a good thing.

LFR and LFG have the same issue these days… no communication or true socialization. Can you pug into a Normal/Heroic/Mythic raid and never say a word, absolutely. But that is the norm in LFR.

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Not everyone wants to socialize and communicate with others all the time. If the mount is available on normal, there’s no reason to gatekeep it from people who play LFR only for whatever their reason may be.

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I 'm so done with raiding… It just sucks… people are picky as hell and then play like they never seen any of the bosses and fail the easiest mechanics.
This is one of many reasons i stopped raiding in SL… it’s just no fun.

I am very sad, that you can’t get the mount in LFR difficulty. It forces me into normal raids, with the people mentioned above which will probably drive me insane.

But atleast boosters will be happy and increase their amounts of gold…

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The way I read the announcement was that the slime cat was ONLY available in Normal. Heroic rewards a title and Mythic rewards sonething else (I forget what it was…). There is no feat of strength or associated reward for LFR.

For solo players there is Honor PvP gear and LFR gear, both of which are not very compelling. I had really hoped that the Dragonflght PvP gearing system would be tested out for S4 but doesn’t look like it.

S4 is in 4 days. Nothing is going to change between now and then so save your breath.

The only real decision left for me as a Solo player is if I’m going to keep paying to play this game for 5 more months. Even with access to the Alpha and having an outsized platform to communicate my thoughts on the game I’m honestly not sure if I will. Five months is a very long time to live with the results of my feedback on this period of time being almost completely ignored.

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