Character Customization - We want more!

Hello everyone. It’s been a while and I am sorry for that!

I will write a short list in the beginning, for those that would rather see a short summary of what’s written and so on!

Small summary:

  • Shared Customization options over all races; blood elf hair on void elves (and vise versa), humans etc.
  • Equal numbers of options for each character customization trait; aka everyone shares the same number of faces, hair colour, skin tones(?), hair styles etc.
  • Tattoos/war paint, blind eyes, scars, piercings, accessories (Jewelry etc) for all races; Tauren cannot have blind eyes, humans can’t have tattoos, night elf females can’t have tattoos, but night elf males can etc.
  • Class specific customization options; fel traits for warlocks, runic tattoos for mages, light glow to paladin eyes, druids with antlers and druidic properties etc. (EDIT: these also being available for all races as well; blood elves, void elves, draenei, humans, nighborne, dark iron dwarf etc. the list goes on. Wherever lore may support such customization!)
  • Kul Tiran body options; skinny human model, regular human and kul tiran human, to be able to choose between these 3, maybe adding more?
  • Upright backs for trolls, undead and worgen males, (Tauren? More info below). Orc Males can choose between upright option in Battle For Azeroth.

This here is a subject I know many have anticapated for a while, this is a subject every single RolePlayer I have spoken to have mentioned. Character Customization; with the release of Shadowlands, every single standard race (excluding allied races) were given new customization options. Things that make each race feel more unique with bases strongly put into their culture, history (Aka Teldrassil Scar for Night Elves) and more possibilities to make your character feel like your own.

In the following patches after, many left out allied races received more options for customization; Lightforged Draenei, Void Elf, Nightborne and Highmountain Tauren. It can be obvious, but Tauren is my favorite race in the Warcraft universe, and I personally was a bit let down with how much more detailed and creative options the Highmountain Tauren got, compared to regular Tauren. And I know this is something that goes between all the allied races.

On RP servers, void elves are commonly used as the base race for people that want to RP a High Elf, and with the non-void hair and skin colours, this became easier for most. But as many people still point out; Why can’t they just give us the Blood Elf customizations for Void Elves as well? And this is something I see everywhere after discussing this with fellow RPers.

With many new great additions to the customizations of characters, there is still a lot that could be added and a lot that could be shared across races. Why couldn’t Kul Tirans be smaller like a regular Human, not every single Kul Tiran is by lore, a vrykul hybrid that stands with 3 heads above a regular human, there are also the most commonly referred to as “skinny-human” from Kul Tiras. The model of the vagabond NPCs that you can see on the streets of Boralus.

A huge part of RPGs is making your character feel unique to you, and customization is just that. But there is still a lot missing; Night Elf females should also be able to choose between tattoos, tauren should also be able to be blind, Worgen should have more fur colour options, and humans should have every single face able to go with every single skin colour. I was surprised to see that some of the newly added hairstyles; dreadlocks, cornrows, pixie etc. could only have certain of the new hair colors. It is more about the freedom to choose what hair colour you want your character to have, than to make it only available for certain hairstyles. As well as the type of face you have, combined with every single skin tone.

  • Straightbacks; Male Orcs finally got the option to be upright in Battle for Azeroth, but we still have hunched over undead males, troll males and worgen males (Please forgive me if I forgot anyone). It is weird that male humans turn into hunched over worgen, but the back does not affect females in any way, at all. Trolls are all different, depending on whether you are a jungle troll, a frost troll, zandalari etc. But I am sure there are varieties here too that could benefit those wanting their trolls to have an upright back. It would not be that far of a stretch. Finally, Undead males, they used to be human, I get the need for them to be a little bit broken over and weak in their posture, but I think with a change in these things, it would really create unique customization and open up for many new stories for this game. (There has also been a discussion about tauren’s posture, and I do not know what could be done here as it seems there are no other way tauren seem to function or be biologically, but it could be a possibe subject to look at as well?)

  • Tattoos, as I mentioned above, should not be limited to a few races. With tattoos I also mean war and tribal paint. This should be accessable for every single race. Different patterns, artwork, from different cultures and also their own. Historical events, remembering war and battles. I know my RP character would use it, and I know many others would as well.

Number of different options, mainly faces. Some races have fewer faces, depending on whether its female and male as well. I will make a list to show. (HM tauren share the same amount of face options as regular Tauren)

Tauren Male: 5 options
Tauren Female: 4 options
Goblin Male: 5 options
Goblin Female: 10 options
Troll Male: 5 options (Zandalari has 6)
Troll Female: 6 options
Vulpera Male: 6 options
Vulpera Female: 6 options
Worgen Male: 7 options
Worgen Female: 16

These are some of the races with very few face options, though if we take a note of the goblins and worgens. THere is a lot more oppertunity with a female than there is with a male character. I also do understand that allied races came with little customization, and is slowly being updated. But I also want to note the big differences.

Human Male: 36 faces (Some only available for certain skin tones)
Human Female: 45 faces (Some only available for certain skin tones)
Void Elf Male: 18 options (Some only available for certain skin tones)
Void Elf Female: 18 options (Some only available for certain skin tones)
Pandaren Male: 21 options
Pandaren Female: 20 options

These are clear differences in amount of customization you can do with one character. Orcs still have the most customization, but very few faces as well. So every race lacks something. I think evening the numbers up would make things a great deal better, and I doubt anyone will complain about more options being added for their characters.

There is one final point I would like to point out too; class based customization.
We recently got nightborne with ‘Luminous Hands’, which is a great trait if your character is a mage. Also adding vines to Night Elf hair was a good addition if your Night Elf is a druid for example. But these things could be added for so many more as well. With their class being a lot of their identity. This is not a new thing, as Death Knights received their own hair colours, even mottling skin. Demon hunters of course having the horns, the fel glowing eyes and the illidari tattoos with the bright menacing colours. This could also be implemented to paladins; glowy, more yellow/lightish hue to their eye colour, mages having runic tattoos, druids with antlers, warlocks with certain fel traits. There are many things one could explore. This also being implemented for suitable races; blood elves, void elves, nightborne, draenei (runic tattoos etc.)

I was planning on putting transmog and cosmetic items in here as well, but this grew into a bigger forum post than I anticipated and had thought.

Please reach out to me on the forums, make threads and I will do my best to get back to you people. I know I missed many points, but these are the main points every single RPer have mentioned and are the most common wishes as far as I can see.

I also hope those that arent within the RP community would like to give me their say on this, as most players spend some time to customize their characters.

Thank you!

184 Likes

Customisation yay :>! I actually had this topic drafted and was going to post it tomorrow, but I’ll put my thoughts in here instead. I don’t want to repeat most of the points already made though, so I’ll add in a few things that haven’t come up yet, but first my two cents on the things brought up so far:

I would love some of these options, particularly for hair styles as there’s no real reason anyone can’t have a haircut to look like something else. It needs to be approached with some caution, so that the races still get to have some of their features remain unique and special to them - although I do not think that is going to be a particularly big problem.

I don’t necessarily think everyone needs the exact same amount of options, as long as there’s a line of equality for all the different races. Some races will inevitably have less options in some vectors of customisation (i.e. “faces”, “hair style”) - but that should then be compensated by giving them new vectors of customisation. As is pointed out, some races have way more customisation than other races right now, and that feels really bad if you happen to play some of the less customisable ones. (It’s also particularly telling that the most popular races were the ones that got the most options right out the gate, further disincentivising players from playing the less popular races in the first place.)

I wanted to also add make-up to this, even if it is kinda implied already. I also think this particular way of customising your character is one that has a lot of potential for expansion further down the line, perhaps even moreso than any other, because it could be unlockable through gameplay. In many ways, tattoos, jewelry and all that could exist as an expansion of transmog. Why not let us collect these sorts of things out in the world, and then add those to our character?

This is one of the customisation features I’m personally the most invested in, as it further lets you express your class identity without having to rely on external factors such as transmog and glyphs.


Anyway, the main focus of the draft I made that has been briefly touched upon so far, goes into talking about body types. There are a few mentions about, for example, the straight back orcs and the skinny Kul Tirans, but I think the scope of that conversation isn’t wide enough, and I’d like to bring it up to talk more closely about it.

When I’m talking about body types, I’m sort of talking about a lot of different things. A character’s height, posture, weight, in some cases it might even come down to a completely different model if need be (for skinny Kul Tirans anwyay), are examples of what I mean with body types. Everyone has different-looking bodies, and that is really not being reflected in WoW very well. Most of the customisations we currently have focus quite intensely on facial features and occasionally also accessories elsewhere on the body - but rarely on the actual body itself. If you are playing X race, your physique conforms with that of everyone else - and that’s not really how it works!

It’s already been said that WoW will not be a game with sliders, but we don’t actually need sliders as long as we get a good amount of pre-created templates to follow from. When it comes to height, you could actually literally add a slider that simply increases the entire model’s size by a few percentages, much like how certain potions and other spell effects in the game already do - roleplayers already use these quite often to simulate their character’s short or tall stature. It would be a simple solution, but a solution nonetheless, one that doesn’t really require an awful lot of work on the actual models themselves.

Weight and stature, however, comes with some problems, particularly when it comes to animations, transmog and clipping. While not true for every body type, some body shapes might not fit entirely with the skeleton and the animations already created for a race, and that could mean that it would have to be entirely recreated in doing so. It’s difficult to give us the option to play, for example, a fat goblin, because of the amount of work it would require due to clipping and animation issues.

But, I think it is worth working on this. You might like a race for its fantasy, culture, or just general vibe, but hate the model associated with it because it’s too skinny, too fat, too muscular, too slender… so why not give us multiple options to choose from. I also think this is important because of lines of representation. For example, it is often brought up that female character models are reinforcing the image of women having to fit into a particular body shape in order to be accepted in society. We should be able to look the way we want to be, and the way we are in real life.


I also thought to repeat the sentiment that customisation is something for everyone, not just the RP community, even if the RP community might be a bit more vocal about it than others.

In conclusion anyway, more customisation good :> The community has tons of ideas for specific customisations out there, and I encourage the devs to check around the forums and other media to get some inspiration!

35 Likes

More customisation is always a great thing. One thing I really wish we had added is hair under hats / helms, even if it is as simple as a pony tail that would look a lot better than being made bald every time I wanted to wear a hat!

Also yes I agree, all races should have scars and individual eye options

44 Likes

This goes for some accessories and even facial hair for helms too! It would be great to have a second pass on some of these things, or simply add an option to allow us to let it clip through it if it’s not too obnoxious.

I also had a chat with a friend, who brought up some new lines of customisation I thought would be neat to mention; voices, gender and age. Voice packs or voice modifiers are a staple in many RPGs already, even just adding a couple of alternate lines would be great. On gender, there was some speculation a while back on wowhead that some datamined lines of code suggested that players would be able to select their preferred gender that the NPCs would addres you with - and I think that would be a great feature. Age is already somewhat customisable with a few face types and hair colours, but not by an awful lot.

Oh, and I was also asked to ask for more colours for everyone, particularly hair colours. If we can dye our hair, why can’t our hair be literally any colour? And how about adding secondary and perhaps even tertiary colours to hair?

21 Likes

I think this is great, but at the same time, I feel it could be hard with the engine WoW is run on, and with the massive size differences (Aka bigger tauren or kul tirans) But it could definitely be something to look at more. More character customization, is as you said, something we never get tired of.

I think it does count, if not giving goblin as many face options, then give them more that weighs up. And it should not be that hard to make more than 6 different faces for each race. At least set the base to around 10-15. Same with skintone, I notice this with Lightforged Draenei, though the tones might not look too different, it does actually make a huge difference how blue and yellow-ish the colour is. This also goes for Goblin, as you can only strictly choose between something around the spectrum of green.

Another big thing is hairstyles, we want more hairstyles; braids, accessories, hair dyes, hair equipment. The addition of headdresses for certain races is something I really love, and use on quite a few of my characters, but I would love for even more! There is no limit to how much we want.

Unlocking these different options, is something we saw in Battle For Azeroth with the Night Warrior option being enabled for Night Elves, by completeing a quest. This also goes with druids; you can find and learn forms that you teach across all your characters and this is something I feel you could do with customization options as well (Also cosmetic items and transmogs, but that is an entirely different post)

THIS Is something I wish I was more vocal about in the original forum, but here I am. Hats making your entire hairstyle disappear is something that is dreadful and all in all really annoying. As well as hair clipping through armor; aka Venthyr Transmogs. It is really annoying wearing certain hats and suddenly your long haired character stuffs all their hair into the hat. It messes with the immersion as well as it prevents some from even equipping such things. WE have seen headpieces being added that now does not remove the hair, which is great, but also means we just want more of it. We want our characters to be as diverse and correct to what we picture them as, as possible!

16 Likes

As long as there’s enough options to create enough variety. Goblins are actually a good example of a race that will probably have less face options than other races, because they can also customise their noses and ears, something other races can’t do. (Maybe everyone should get to do that, though!)

Wowhead’s old article on customisations (https://www.wowhead.com/news/comparison-of-unique-customization-combinations-for-all-races-orc-male-and-night-318794) go into good detail on the differences between races, and how many unique combinations you can make with them; the number one thing that stands out is that every single additional layer of customisation creates a lot more diversity than simply one new option. I think it’s important more races get more layers (what I referred to as vectors) of customisation to balance things out.

16 Likes

I’m glad we all know the woes of hats hiding our hair.

As for my wishes for customization, I would really like Forsaken to get some TLC. Yes, I’m biased. While their silhouette is iconic, I always find myself wishing my undead could hold themselves up a little more properly.

In that same vein, having variety in body types- across lots of different races- would make me so happy. Though I’m sure that might take more work, hence why MMOs with preset races never do it.

12 Likes

Id die if they added more customization for PvP aspect of doing things instead of just a flag that looks meaner every honor level

9 Likes

First and foremost I would like to see every single option not limited by any body type or towards any specific model. This means all makeup, jewelry, hairstyles, beards, etc. Absolutely nothing should be off-limits. The absolute euphoria I’ve seen from people who have experienced what can be done with less limited and less locked creators in other MMORPGs/RPGs is always amazing to see and WoW would benefit massively from such an addition.

On the topic of being allowed to choose your pronouns outside of your body choice, that would be a fantastic thing for many players. And I’d like them to add more than just they/them to the roster of pronouns. For example, there are a number of popular neopronouns such as fae/faer, ze/zir, or xe/xem that could also easily be included and should be included.

If possible, I’d also like to see people be able to pick multiple pronoun options and the game would choose between the ones you have chosen.

I fully endorse having more varied and different body types and feel that having body sliders would also be a benefit but would come secondary to just having more body types in-game to begin with.

As far as specific customizations are concerned that haven’t been mentioned, we should get a wide variety of prosthetic limb options for the races in Azeroth. This would be great on a customization front but more importantly, provide a more accurate representation for a number of players who enjoy the game.

9 Likes

Blood Elfs should be able to use the Void elf hairstyles - minus the cool glow effects.

17 Likes

Posting here as per Dynja’s request, I did not see this thread when I made the one I posted. (Just Copy/Pasting Mine)

To preface, I had help compiling this thread, as I didn’t want to leave anyone out. If we somehow forgot a popular request, feel free to let me know and I can add it. Also, if any artists have an issue with me reposting their concept art here, just let me know, you can link this thread to ping me in General Discussion. Same with if you know who it came from, I can add credit. :slight_smile: (I can also remove the images if the artist doesnt want it up)

Anyway, customization was one of the main selling points of Shadowlands, and when we were told there would be no more added, it was a massive letdown and had tons of threads about it. Then you announced in 9.1.5 that 3 allied races were being updated, which was great.

So please don’t let the customization options stop, they’re arguably the one thing most players agree on being a good thing being added. Here’s a list of the customization options players have been asking for, summed up.

Pandaren:

  • Jewelry: Jade. Large Wooden Beads. Celestial-Focused Jewelry (Black Ox, White Tiger, Green Dragon, Red Crane). Koi Fish. Turtles. Pawprints.
  • More Face Options (Female have a perpetual :3 face with no way to opt out)
  • Scars
  • Blind Eye Options
  • Longer Beards for Males
  • Eyebrow Customization
  • More Hairstyles (with Headbands and such)
  • Ability to remove the “Naked” Sandals
  • Faction-Based Jewelry, Tattoos, etc. to help create some Faction Pride for Pandaren
  • Tail Options for Male Pandaren

Draenei:

  • More Eye Colors (E.G. Green, Purple)
  • More Horn Options
  • More Face Options
  • Red/Dark Purple Skin Option
  • Scars
  • Tattoos (Red, Green, Black, etc.)

Note: The Skin and Tattoo options will help facilitate the Man’ari fantasy. Lore-wise, it’d be rather easy for them to explain that some Man’ari sought forgiveness from Velen after Sargeras’s defeat. Yes, they committed horrible atrocities, but so did the Death Knights. This will also give a choice that isn’t the bland white/blue skin tones Draenei currently have.

Concept Art (as a Horde Allied Race, but still works here) by Rurukatt:

Trolls and Zandalari Trolls:

  • Beards
  • Scars
  • More Jewelry, inspired by the Zandalari NPCs like Priestess Alun’za
  • More Eye Colors
  • More Tusk Customization
  • Forest and Ice Troll Skin Options

Beard Mockup by RamavataramaArt, Unsure about Tattoo/Tusk/etc. Mockup Artist:

Worgen:

  • Tails (Arguably the most requested feature of any race on the forums)
  • Mane Colors
  • Hair Accessories (Hat, Roses, etc.)
  • Night Elf “Two Forms” Option.
  • More Face Options
  • Scars

Orcs and Mag’Har Orcs:

  • Blackrock, Dragonmaw and Fel Orc Skin Options.
  • Dragonmaw Tattoos.
  • Bleeding Hollow Eye options.
  • Shattered Hand Stump.
  • Eyebrow Options.

Goblins:

  • New Hairstyles
  • Younger Faces
  • More Jewelry
  • Tattoos
  • Gilgoblin Skin/Hair Options

Face Concept Art by Faebelina, Hairstyle/etc. by Ray of the Sun.

Vulpera:

  • Actual Hair/Hairstyles
  • More Fur Colors
  • More Ear Shapes
  • More Mouth Shapes
  • Scars
  • Different Fur Types (Shaggy, Fluffy, etc.)
  • More Eye Colors, Maybe Heterochromatic Options (Like Most Core Races Received)
  • More Varied Patterns
  • More Jewelry Options

Lightforged Draenei

  • Darker Skin Tone Options

Note: It’s understood Lightforged are supposed to have light skin, however, Lightforged Death Knights exist, so having a Darker Skin Tone for them would be nice, and having it available in general would be great. Onyx Skin Mockup by Somand.

Mechagnomes

  • More Metallic Color Options (Saronite, Fel Iron, etc.)
  • Mismatched Limb Colors/Types
  • More Hand Options (Thicker, Thinner, Tesla Coil, Buzz Saw, Cannon, etc.)
  • Titanic Mechagnome Options for Head/Appendages
  • The Ability to be 100% Robotic
  • Non-Bipedal Legs (Mechaspider, etc.)
  • Borg-Like Mecha-Implants (Mecha Parts on Cheek, Eyebrows, etc.)
  • More Eye Customization (Different Colors, One Mecha, One Bio, Flashlights, etc.)
  • Separate Ear, Chin, and Eye Modifications so they can be Mix/Matched
  • Mecha-Mouth Option
  • More Varied Hair Colors (Brighter, similar to Gnomes)
  • More Hair Styles
  • Cybernetic Hair (LED Lights, etc.)
  • Scars (Grease/Burn Marks, Damaged Limbs, etc.)
  • Tattoos

All images from The Mechagnome Megathread linked at the bottom.

Forsaken

  • Upright Posture Option
  • “Stitched” Skin Option
  • Facial Hair

Humans

  • Tattoos
  • Asymmetrical Earrings
  • Remove Some Faces Being Locked Behind Skin Color

Night Elves

  • Jewelry Option For Males
  • More Headdresses
  • More Varied Markings
  • More Earrings
  • “Neutral” Faces for Males
  • Fix “Disappearing Eyebrows” with Certain Helms, like the Halloween Hats

Zandalari Trolls

  • More Hair Styles/Colors
  • New Eye Colors
  • More Tattoos

Kul Tiran

  • Tattoos (Sailor/Shipfarer Tattoos)
  • More Beard Options

Mag’har Orcs

  • More Hairstyles
  • More Eye Colors

Dark Iron Dwarf

  • More Hair Styles/Colors
  • More Eye Colors
  • More Tattoos
  • Jewelry

Tauren

  • Grimtotem Skin Options
  • Other Tribe (such as Grimtotem) Face Paint Options
  • More headdresses

Nightborne

  • Better Shaped Eyelashes
  • Fix the Mis-Aligned Hairstyles (Explanations in this thread.)
  • More Headdress Styles
  • Better Placement for Hair Decorations on some Hairstyles
  • Higher Definition Jewelry that fits the Nightborne Theme, not Night Elf Like Current.
  • “Neutral” Faces for Males
  • Fix “Disappearing Eyebrows” with Certain Helms, like the Halloween Hats
  • Fix the Chin Decorations and Heritage Armor Chestpiece Confliction
  • Better Luminous Hands Animation
  • More Visible Tattoos
  • Fix the Choppy Edges on Tattoos

Blood elves:

  • Scars
  • Farstrider Tattoos (Various Colors)
  • Farstrider Feathers
  • Rune “Tattoos”, Similar to those seen in the BC Art
  • Amber, Orange, Black, and Red Eyes Option (the latter two for Dark Ranger/Darkfallen Fantasy (Including Optional Around-the-Eye Markings)
  • Heterochromia Eye Options
  • More Blind Eye Options
  • Eyebrow Size Options
  • Darkfallen Skin Tone Options
  • San’layn Bat-Style Ear Options
  • Fangs and Claws for Darkfallen Fantasy
  • Phoenix/Light based Tattoos
  • Golden Hair Highlights for a more Light Based Paladin Theme
  • Phoenix-style weapons
  • Male Jewelry & Jewelry Removed from Original Update
  • An Updated Paladin Mount, either a Hawkstrider, to show their growth on their own, or an updated Courser.

Note: Most San’layn desiring players want them as an Allied Race. However, if you don’t plan to add them as one, I imagine (I can’t speak for them) they’d rather customization than not at all. (I highly recommend reading the Megathread: San'layn/Darkfallen Vampyr Coagulated AR/Customization (for Blood Elves) Horde Megathread - It’s by far one of the biggest threads in the forum, outlines hair styles, hair colors, ear options, etc. I can’t really summarize everything in this.)

“Rune Tattoo” art by Unknown. San’layn Art by ZombieQualia on Twitter. Farstrider Tattoo Mockup by Somand. Phoenix/Light Tattoo by Ace. Phoenix Weapons by Olivia Leppard.

Void Elves:

  • More Hairstyles, with Tentacle Toggles
  • Void / Starcursed Hair Effects
  • Jet Black and Stark White Hair Colors
  • Tattoos (Purple, Black, Silver, Dark Blue)
  • Eyebrow Size Options
  • Scars
  • More Jewelry Options for Both Genders
  • Black/Greyish/Void Skin Tones
  • Entropic Embrace Toggle
  • Void Corrupted “Normal” Skin Tones
  • More Eye Colors (Greys, Blacks, Pinks, maybe Old God Inspired Eyes)
  • More Hair Colors (Pinks, Purples, Greys)
  • More Tentacle Color Options (Starcursed Blue, Black, Fuchsia and White)
  • Fix Receding Hairlines and Holes Caused by Tentacle Toggle
  • Remove Some Faces Being Locked Behind Skin Color

Female Hairstyles by Faebelina, Male by Luoren, Starcursed Hair by Rama, Eye Options by Silverleaf, Skin Tones by Silverleaf, Hair Colors and Void Corrupted Normal Skin tones and Scar Mockups by Ramavatarama. Non-Void Hairstyles by Rama. Nightborne/Void Elf Hairstyles by Faebelina.


(The top hairstyles are Nightborne)


I apologize if I missed anyone. Feel free to ping me if I did, as I said. I tried my best to get all of the popular requests.

Here is the mega-thread of customization threads that go into more detail, with more concept art, of pretty much everything here:

Some Megathreads not listed in that:

37 Likes

Now to comment on some things in this thread, as I somehow didn’t see it get created.

I’m not entirely sure who you’re talking to, but almost every blood elf and void elf fan I know doesn’t want this. They want uniqueness, the main concern with blood elf players is that they lost uniqueness by giving Void Elves regular skin tones and hair colors, and void elf players feel they lost uniqueness by giving Blood Elves their blue and purple eyes. So homogenizing them would likely just make more people mad than happy.

I think I’ve seen more threads complaining about this than anything else in the past year.

If there’s one thing I’ve ever been against in this game, it’s adding body options for Kul Tiran. This goes back to my first point about homogenization.

There are Twenty Two other races they can play. Meanwhile, what would this take away, to give, you might ask? Representation.

Kul Tirans are the only non-animal race without the “skinny” body type. If you give people the option to play them as “Skinny,” I imagine most of them would - especially since humans have way more customization than Kul Tirans.

This innately would take away representation for the non-typical body size community. We would see less of us in the world. And much like how representation matters for PoC and LGBT, it does for heavyset people. I already have a rather large annoyance at Blizzard for sexualizing female pandaren instead of embracing being chubby like with males.

A compromise, in my eyes, would be adding Druid and Shaman to the base Human classes. They can RP as Kul Tiran, and it would mean any KT class is available to regular human so they can RP as a skinny Kul Tiran without innately taking away representation.

Representation matters.

6 Likes

This is not really true. Heavy-set people will still be able to be represented because being a heavy-set Kul Tiran will remain an option. Those who choose to play Kul Tiran play that because they want to be a heavy-set human, and adding an option to make them skinny doesn’t automatically make all of them reconsider and play a skinny version. If so, why are people playing Kul Tirans as other classes such as mages or warriors, which are available to regular humans as well? I do not think we would see less of them out in the world if we changed this.

However:

This is true, and we need better representation. I think Kul Tirans should get skinny options, but I also think every race should get multiple body types to properly cover the vast spectrum of looks we have in real life. We need more options to let us express who we are, and we also need to work on the attitudes we have towards ideas of beauty and what is acceptable to look like. For example, the assumption that everyone’s going to pick a skinny option for Kul Tirans if they had the choice, makes me wonder: why? The answer to that question is what needs to be worked at, and that’s not something you can ‘fix’ in the character creator.

11 Likes

There is already a ton of people using the Kul Tiran humans to RP regular humans from say, Gilneas, Lordaeron or the Stormwind Kingdom already. THe problem is, there is no representation for skinny people then. There is either really fit muscular humans or a heavierset human to choose from. I dont understand why theres always only two sides; muscular and heavyset, what about the inbetween? This is also about possibility and diversity, there will be no diversity by denying certain groups and certain things to be available as a choice because then you are limited.

I highly agree with these statements, its important that everyone is heard and that we are given as much choice as possible.

By Lore, there is not much uniqueness other than Void elves being blood elves thrown out of hte horde, giving them the same customization as blood elves would only enforce their heritage, and by giving blood elves the void elf hairstyles, would even support more consistancy and variation.

I believe and think that it is best for the large majority of people to have the possibility of just giving as many customizations as possible, and the easiest way to this is to give races already implemented hairstyles and such, and sharing them across other races.

The alternative would be designing MORE hairstyles, but we also gotta be realistic. This would give more diversity. Being realistic, there is not much difference between void elves and blood elves (and high elves), they are literally all the same model, all the same culture and all the same place they come from. Ask oneself this;
If you had to choose between; no new customization for either races or shared customization, what would you choose?

As a Lightforged Draenei player, I would like to share a lot of the customization with the regular draenei, and I do not feel that would make them less unique. At this point, there are 3 races in the world that people RP and play as; blood elf, void elf and high elf. (SOrry if I am wrong about some of the lore, these elves are not my main interest point in WoW). I do not believe we can exclude two races from having shared customization, when I talk about shared customization, it would be cool to have human hairstyles on elves too, night elf hairstyles on draenei, dwarves. Its not JUST shared between void elf and blood elf (this meaning both ways). We are asking for more customization, and perhaps the easiest way to go for this is to let a lot of the similar races share a lot of their customization, I also think its then important to for example give blood elves chances to have runes… But at this day and age, there is not much physical difference between a blood elf and high elf, besides the green eyes, occassionally.

I would LOVE to see more of the shared customization between HM tauren and regular tauren. Maybe one should ask for clearer and more obvious differences between blood elves and void elves (eventually high elves?), what these would be, I do not know. But I do know that they are all very similar.

I have tried my best and was in touch for months with different GMs on Moonguard, i was even sent a document wishlist with a lot of people collaborating on what the playerbase wanted. Threads on the general discussion forums were also made for me to engage in and read peoples ideas, and I took every single realistic idea from there and put it in. I am just a Community Council member and I spent 2-3 months gathering data before writing this forum post. If anyone does not feel heard or represented, I did note at the end that you were free to make a thread in response.

I think it’s important to remember we cannot ask for everything people want, we also have to be realistic and cut down on things, If I was to write down everything I have been asked to bring up, I would still be writing and this post would never be read.

Allied race post will be up in the future!

7 Likes

I also would like to say that runic tattoos and such should not be class restricted, which is not what I meant at all. I am sorry if I worded myself wrong.

My point is to have as many lorefriendly customization options open for everyone as possible. Runes then going to death knights, blood elves, void elves, mages, warlocks, paladins (?), demon hunters, draenei, night elf (elune runes?), nightborne, priests. All that.

Apologies if I have not been clear.

6 Likes

Representation means nothing if no one chooses that option - if you don’t see the thing in game, then it’s not representation. Sure, you might be able roll it, but Kul Tiran can’t be Paladin, Demon Hunter, Warlock, or Evoker. So if you main one of those classes? You rely on other people playing that race for representation.

If you gave people the option between a regular human model and KT human, where regular human has an astronomical amount of customization options compared to KT human, most people will opt for the one they can customize more.

And for those trying to get the super thin KT human model that’s based on a forsaken skeleton? That would require a ton of art team work to make a female model, customization options, etc. that could be spent making the base KT race customization better and more appealing. By advocating for them to spend time on that model you’re essentially telling everyone who likes the not-thin model they need to be okay with the subpar amount of KT customization that currently exists. They wouldn’t spend art time making all new models and options for a skinny version and then still update the non-thin version.

Likewise, your suggestion about adding more body types for other races: This would be great, but it’s not realistic. Again, they aren’t going to spend art time making new model skeletons for different races for different body sizes. And if they do, it’s going to come at the expense of updated customization for the existing options.


Again, there are 22 other races people who want to play a skinny model can play. Even female pandas are skinny. Literal pandas.

YOU may not see it as taking away representation, but it is. I have seen I think one Pandaren in the past year. I have seen hundreds of Kul Tirans. How many of those KTs would use a skinny model if they could?

I’ll give you a hint: It’s definitely not 0. And if even a single one of them did, that’s taking away representation.

I apologize if any of this comes off heated. It’s something I’m very passionate about, and one of the few cases where I do not want more options added.

They have not 1, not 2, not 3, but TWENTY TWO options of races to choose for representation. The fact you actually said skinny people don’t have representation is ridiculously insulting.

As for non-muscular - Blood/Void Elves exist. They are about as skinny as you can get before Blizzard would tread on the dangerous waters of being accused of encouraging eating disorders. Just like KT tread the water on the other end of the spectrum.

This is the issue. People want more unique customizations, they don’t want to homogenize the races even more. Please, just look at a single blood elf or void elf thread and you’ll see.

They are literally not the same culture. High Elves, Blood Elves, and even Void Elves have different cultures. There’s even different cultures within the different Blood Elf groups.

And you would be wrong. It would by definition, take away uniqueness.

I am very opposed to most of your thoughts, and I will make it known. Just like I’m sure you’re opposed to mine and I expect you to make it known.

1 Like

Perhaps there is a huge difference then, I see Pandaren daily. There is quite a few pandaren being RPed and even played in PVE here in Europe. I know many do love the pandaren dearly because of their realistic body size.

Being muscular is not skinny. Tauren are not skinny, neither are the females, dwarfes are not skinny, orcs are definitely not skinny. Zandalari trolls are muscular, both the female and male models. Worgen males are muscular and even human females are toned. I do not feel represented by -ANY- of the races in wow. Blood elves are also muscular. Having a sixpack and muscular arms is not for everyone, every single male race in the game except for a few have a very muscular torso and upper arms, as well as thighs. Some people want humans to represent them, they do not want a troll or a minotaur like creature to represent their body type… They would want humans. Why cant everyone be represented as humans? Or do we have to go with an undead to be able to play a skinny character, so we should be happy with that?

If you find it insulting I am not happy with two options; heavyset and muscular, then that is rather insulting too. Females should also have the option to be heavily muscled as well, I think we should have all of the oppertunities. People will play them either way and it seems you and i have very different views on what is represented and not. I think we should also be careful about stepping into territory of what is encouraging disorders and what isn’t, as this is a fantasy world and has humans able to shift into a werewolf.

These are the most played races, and one could say that is insulting, it is not representative and it’s played because people want to play it, and one cant fault people for not wanting to play a heavyset character.

They all stem from the same place, Quel’Thalas. Some would argue Void elves are too new to see any deepening culture or heritage other than who they used to be before becoming void elves. There is little lore at all around the Void Elves, too little.

The title is literally “we want more”, I would want nothing more than for MORE and NEW customizations to come out, but we have to be realistic. The easiest way to get it would have to share a lot of hairstyles, hair colours among ALL THE RACES. I am not talking about ONLY Giving Void elves the same hairstyles as blood elves and Vise versa. I am talking about dwarven hairstyle options for void elves, for draenei, for goblins, for trolls.

I would OF COURSE prefer new and unique customization options for each and every race, but we also have to look at the easiest outcome and suggest that.

I think one has to ask, if we had to choose, would we rather just keep it like it is or share every customization across all races?

I think its important to keep in mind European servers and US servers is different on the RP side of things.

10 Likes

By this logic, Dracthyr are also going to take away representation, because there’s going to be more players that move on from Kul Tiran to play those. This is not taking away representation.

And as I’ve pointed out, I do not think adding an option for a skinny version will make fewer people play the original KT model. At least not any more than literally any new race would. With every new race and class, or customisation option drop, there’s going to be more diversity in the same player pool (adjusting for new and quitting players).

The main reason there’s little representation is a cultural thing. Nothing Blizzard does can really change that. Would giving Kul Tirans millions of new permutations of customisation make them more popular? Definitely. Will this convince everyone to start playing Kul Tirans and thus make them much better represented? If people aren’t playing Kul Tirans because they’re fat, I doubt it.

Of course, but we want more customisations for every race and bring them up to an equal level. That would include both heavy and skinny Kul Tirans.

That’s not the same, one does not exclude the other. You can have skinny Kul Tirans and more customisation options for regular Kul Tirans. We’re not even necessarily advocating for a skinny model before we get more customisation options, so it’s not going to take resources away from that.

Realistically, maybe not, but we’re advocating for them to do so anyway because it’s something players want, and it’s going to do well for representation, which is the topic that sparked the discussion. In fact, this is what we should be striving for if representation and body positivity is our end goal. Representation through one race is awful representation, it’s tokenisation at best. Can you imagine if you wanted to play a black character, and you were forced to play one race? It really used to be like that, and that was rightfully corrected. It might be easier to make another skin tone instead of adding a new model (assuming that is even needed, you could just adjust the model or use an existing skeleton, at least for some races), but just because something takes more resources and more time doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing it.

You get more representation by adding more options for it for other races, by normalising body types across all races instead of saying ‘this is the race you have to play if you want to be X’.

14 Likes

So, I’ve been on alpha lately, and one of the new dragons (note, dragon, not blood elf, before people scream) has something to note:

Now, I do not want people to scream “OMG THE VOID ELVES ARE ASKING FOR MORE STUFF” - But without a doubt, these eyes are the living embodiment of what void elf players who want more void options have been asking for since the very beginning, before you caved into High Elf fans before Void Elf players. This in purple, blue, and orange.

Here’s some very quick edits to show you how it would look like and if it isn’t obvious why this fits void elves, I’ll be surprised.

This screams old god, and void. The orange is almost exactly what N’zoth’s eyes look like, and what we’ve been asking for.

This eye exists in the game now, you are actively using it on a character in alpha. PLEASE consider adding this to Void Elves - it would also rectify the fact we have no unique eye colors compared to Blood Elves, something they do have unique from us, and add more unique things between the races, even if minor.

(And I’m aware this is meant to be the “Cross” version of dracthyr eyes, but it’s not entirely as you can easily see, as it’s missing one part of + shape, effectively turning it into a slit, more catlike, or, you know, void/old god like)

5 Likes

I just want a keg on my back the way tauren get the totem its even in the game on an insane cooldown

6 Likes