This is why the graphics changed

[Toaster-1403]

@Cld-1635

@Toaster-1403

downgraded graphics and terrible terrain

_https://preview.redd.it/91tzvvvvjg141.png?auto=webp&s=73b682274363ffc60744d780305fd694c09e2064

the demo is a marketing gig made to look good and the beta looks almost as good.
the team have said game optimization would be the last thing they will be fixing before launch so I believe they will work on finishing the terrain and shadows and it’ll look just like the demo.

What happened to the shadows on the grass? What happened to the trees? Where is the lighting? Where is the reflection?

[Riptor-1789]

“Maybe you don’t have a good enough PC to know what good graphics is”

I mean I have a $3400 Alienware ALX that’s less than a year old, w/GTX 2080. Pretty sure that qualifies as a good PC.

“I’m genuinely confused on why you decided to crank down the saturation for the 2019 beta”

A simple experiment to show the “realistic atmosphere” people were complaining about was nothing more than a simple adjustment to contrast and saturation…

“In fact the screenshot for 2018 looks way better”

The only thing I see that’s different aside from the thick layer of grey smog covering everything, are the aggressive “shadow puppets” being casted on the terrain by every object on the screen.

This discussion has already taken place a few times. We realize you spergs love the RTX shadows that nobody who plays multiplayer in their right mind would want to look at for more than 5 minutes…

We get it though, graphics look better as you make things more realistic, the problem is where realism gets in the way of game play, and for multiplayer, literally every unit on the screen casting black shadows onto everything is something people think they want, but they don’t…

Just look at the Unreal Engine video a few people posted. Like 60% of the objects on the screen are covered in complete darkness, 100% BLACK shadows.

Looks cool? Yeah… for sure. Would anyone want to play a multiplayer RTS like this? No…

It’s easy to look at still shots and point out what looks better, it’s harder to watch a video of both, side by side, and accept the reality that games are more fun when you don’t have 600 environmental effects on the screen, all moving around, drawing your eye away from what’s actually important.

[Toaster-1403]

@Riptor-1789

“Maybe you don’t have a good enough PC to know what good graphics is”

I mean I have a $3400 Alienware ALX that’s less than a year old, w/GTX 2080. Pretty sure that qualifies as a good PC.

“I’m genuinely confused on why you decided to crank down the saturation for the 2019 beta”

A simple experiment to show the “realistic atmosphere” people were complaining about was nothing more than a simple adjustment to contrast and saturation…

“In fact the screenshot for 2018 looks way better”

The only thing I see that’s different aside from the thick layer of grey smog covering everything, are the aggressive “shadow puppets” being casted on the terrain by every object on the screen.

This discussion has already taken place a few times. We realize you spergs love the RTX shadows that nobody who plays multiplayer in their right mind would want to look at for more than 5 minutes…

We get it though, graphics look better as you make things more realistic, the problem is where realism gets in the way of game play, and for multiplayer, literally every unit on the screen casting giant shadows onto everything is something people think they want, but they don’t…

Just look at the Unreal Engine video a few people posted. Like 60% of the objects on the screen are covered in complete darkness, 100% BLACK shadows.

Looks cool? Yeah… for sure. Would anyone want to play a multiplayer RTS like this? No…

It’s easy to look at still shots and point out what looks better, it’s harder to watch a video of both, side by side, and accept the reality that games are more fun when you don’t have 600 environmental things on the screen, all moving around, drawing your eye away from what’s actually important.

Sorry bud but good graphics and good visibility are not mutually exclusive. This is simple game design 101, if blizzard can’t even find the balance between the two then maybe they should hire better artists. Also the shadows in say… 99% of PC games can be lowered or removed in the game graphical settings if you do find them too distracting. Same with the environmental assets, bloom, reflection, particle effects, shadering, whatever crap you hate to see.

Why are you taking that away from us? I seriously cannot compute that.

[Riptor-1789]

“Why are you taking that away from us? I seriously cannot compute that.”

Nobody is “taking” anything away from you… The game hasn’t been released yet. You have no idea what is being worked on right now. Nobody does.

WoW? Graphics 10/10
Overwatch? Graphics 10/10
Diablo? Graphics 10/10
HoTS? Graphics 10/10

You: “BLIZZARD DOESN’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MAKING THEIR GAMES LOOK GOOD, RRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE”.

/squealing pig noises

[Toaster-1403]

@Riptor-1789

“Why are you taking that away from us? I seriously cannot compute that.”

Nobody is “taking” anything away from you… The game hasn’t been released yet. You have no idea what is being worked on right now. Nobody does.

WoW? Graphics 10/10
Overwatch? Graphics 10/10
Diablo? Graphics 10/10
HoTS? Graphics 10/10

You: “BLIZZARD DOESN’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MAKING THEIR GAMES LOOK GOOD, RRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE”.

/squealing pig noises

You spent half an hour writing that? Thought you would come up with something insightful, guess not.

Edit: oh btw Alienware ALX came out in 2009. You sure what you said about your PC is true?

[Riptor-1789]

Alienware Area 51 R5

ALX was my last one. And yeah that one was older…

[Shade-1794]

The units are drastically less busy compared to last year.

The terrain was also simplified so that units could pop off the terrain. When the terrain is hyper detailed like last year, you can’t tell what is going on.

And many people I talked to at BlizzCon were complaining about the art.

[MayGodbless-3780]

@Shade-1794

People wanted their Warcraft 3 style graphics back, and they gave that feedback.

You never know the point. Yes, if they got feedback it sure was great things to do. If people want its graphics more like WC3 Classic it is Okay, and acceptable to us. but they can do it with improved graphics not lower and terrible graphics like today. When getting feedback there is no need to downgrade graphics. Graphics quality same or higher but satisfy feedback. We never care whether it looks like 2018 demo. It is not our point at all. We only care it looks great in “any possible way”. The only reason people are complaining is not because it is not same with 2018 demo, but because its graphics are terrible and downgraded even one year after. OKAY? Pls say something knowing the point!

[Myhria-11201]

Hey Purist, stop LYING

Now i will show to you and to the other guys some quotes from 2018! Lets go!

Is about an topic from 2018!

The name of topic is: “Blizzard your art style is perfect dont change”

With more than 931 Likes in 181 Replies with 7.5k Views

Blizzard, Your art style is perfect! Don't change it

As someone who’s been playing WC3 for over a decade and an active member of the map making community and I beg blizzard not to listen to the vocal minority who have been constantly complaining about the Reforged art style. These people claim they speak on behalf of the Warcraft 3 community but they do not. The majority of them appear to be asking for more cartoony, lower quality art assets, they want WC3 to look like a clone of HOTS or every other cartoony game we get for $15 off Steam nowadays…

Now the Quotes of the topic!

@AtheosTG-2111

Long time player, since wc2.
I agree 100%. Many are just falling for their own nostalgia. But warcraft needs to move on.

That of course doesn’t mean everything is perfect. Hughmongous shoulderpads for instance. But the general idea is great.

Keep at it blizz. Tale the community feedback with a grain of salt.

@RedW-2883

I absolutely love REFORGED art style, and when I got to see one of those screenshots I instantly felt that warcraft 3 was back.

@Mightylink-1809

Yes, I’ve always really wanted a Warcraft game that looked more like its cinematics, I’m really happy with the current art style. Let’s just try it out for once and if people don’t like it then we can go back for Warcraft 4.

@Overmind-21594

I agree with what you said. Realistic art style is better.

@BrzyStarfish-1178

I support the OPs point 100%

Blizzard has had a very interesting artstyle in its games that trends the line between cartoony and realistic, and for the most part they do well. I do love the more realistic look and feel of these new models. I hope that Blizzard sticks to them.

@ReginHowl-1450

I like it! This new realistic style gives me the vibe and feel of warcraft 1 & 2.

@Nation-11877

I agree, it looks amazing. Keep doing what your doing blizz. Can’t wait for this game!!!

@Ploms-2836

I seriously hope they don’t change it to the typical cartoon style all their other games have. Maybe change the tone of the game to give a bit more grim feel to it.

@wishr-2283

Personally, I absolutely agree with that.

@HeatN-1121

100% agree. Please keep the look we saw in the demos, its perfect. People who liked the old graphics are not forbidden from playing the old version. If you dont want anything to change, why play reforged? So please blizzard, dont listen to them, we really love the new style - its not even all that different, it doesnt look grimdark like 40k at all. Just not as ugly as they used to be. Which we never realized by the time because we had no comparison.

@Toaster-1403

Agree 100% on the artstyle, keep it up. This is coming from someone who has spent thousands and thousands of hours playing wc3 custom games back in 2004-2008. My concern is that the terrain and the tile textures seem a bit sloppy and needs to match with the models.

@Plague-2354

Personally I love the art style in this remaster. Especially the footmen, they look fantastic. I just wish jaina lost those shoulderpads and that breast plate. I liked her better when she had only cloth gear

@Typherion-21131

Completely agree with everything the OP and some other people have said here , ever since i was a child playing Warcraft 3, i have dreamed of units looking just like the cinematics, and this is a dream come true , the footmen , Knights riflemen grunts and orc buildings all look amazing , i think the human buildings Could use some work so that they’d look more realistic , other than that , i have played Warcraft 2 and looking at the spirtes and sound effects Warcraft was never intended to have a completely cartoony design so i am against the idea of a hots like Warcraft … please no, i love cartoony artstyles but i Don’t want Warcraft feeling like clash if clans or hots xD. Warcraft 3 really looked realistic and great for its time , after all like it came out in 2002 , and its most demanding and realistic competitors back then were things like gta vice city, they made the game look as realistic as they possibly could, but they were limited by the power of the pcs of the time , so we got out iconic artsyle … I still love the original wc3, but reforged is definitely a clear upgrade , as far is unit differentiation goes , we just aren’t used to it yet , and maybe with a little tweaking to the model’s like clear silhouettes / identifying boundaries and more team colour on some units all the complaints about not being able to differentiate Would go away … P.s really love the new high quality shadows and it would be amazing if we could get high quality , grass ,as well as random wind effects , like capes fluttering e.t.c , I’d also love to see the physics within rain , like random lighting flashing , and water rippling down steel armour , gosh that would look amazing if possible !

@NickLD-11718

I agree completely. It pains me to see people saying, unironically “its not too late to redo the entire art style, you can still fix this”… The reforged look is incredible. I’m blown away and I really hope they stick with it. I can understand some nitpicky feedback, like the riflemen being too large, or a piece of armor out of place, whatever.
But what they’ve managed to do (and if you look at the concept art for reforged this becomes clear) is create an entirely unique look that is different from WoW or Warcraft 3 or HotS WITHOUT departing from that iconic “warcraft style”. That’s exactly what was needed for this, and I’m personally beyond excited to see the rest of the game.
I hope the development team isn’t intimated or bullied out of the new look they’ve created. The buildings, the heroes, the environments (even though early) all look amazing.
It’s a tough job because you really can’t please everyone. But they’re doing good work. I haven’t been this excited for any gaming news in a long long time.

@FrankTheStud-1152

I love the art style, too! So excited to play!

@Krine-1782

Agreed. Those who prefer the Disney cartoon style can stick with the original game.

@Alex06-1884

I actually love the art style as well. The buildings and units look great, and the metallic look is amazing and it looks just like the cinematics!

I’m not sure I’m digging the way the Ghoul, the Paladin’s face nor the Footman’s shield look. But otherwise, looks fantastic.

For those who like the old art style, just turn off the new one? You can actually do that.

@Deathscream-11366

agreed 100% blizzard you have done a great job! push the graphics for a realistic look as far as you can. for the 1 % who dont like it they can play the sd version. great job!

@Zank-21681

I totally agree with his point, this isn’t 2002 anymore and people look different into how reality is. The game has been alive for such a long time and the remaster will tell how the game will contienue to live forward in a new quality state and year! as how it is, the game will become more beatiful in modern.

@fufiru-2772

I will always prefer some realism and more blood than casual goof disney WoW style. Warcraft is a about battles and it shouldn’t be watered down.

@dres-11626

Undead and Orc should be scary. I was disappointed that Zerg in Starcraft 2 did not look nearly as scary as in Starcraft 1. Keep up the realism!

@imabubble-1392

i have not complaints on how the game looks, i think the game looks beautiful and it will only look better as time goes on all the models they have shown just are amazing to look at… my worries are with them messing with the story and taking away some Easter Eggs

@Vesikulho-1266

Totally agree with op. In high definition all the details come more alive. The cartoon revamp would really make it worse. Worst scenario would be to change it to rounded HOTS style.

@RebornEdd-2243

Agree a lot! If people want the old style they can play it now and they can play it when reforged comes out, new HD models i just love and i am already excited to see each and every single new model in game, just zooming in as close as i can, probably able to even make some dank wallpapers with the right background!

@McCracker-1428

I very much agree with OP. Growing up with Warcraft 1/2/3, I’ve always looked at the concept art of those games as the real indicators of the actual or natural look of the Warcraft world. I always viewed the game units on screen as nothing more than symbolic representations of the actual characters from the cinematics. So naturally, I’m very happy and excited to finally see a more realistic representation of those units in game. If the technology finally allows them to implement higher fidelity, more naturally-proportions models in the game, then why not do so?

During the Reforged panel at Blizzcon Biran Sousa mentioned that they chose this look specifically because it truly speaks what Warcraft is. Also, they saw it as a smart thing to do in today’s market in order to avoid using the same old, ultra-stylized, hand-painted, “Pixar” look that Blizzard along with so many other companies have been doing over and over again for more than a decade…

Overall, in my opinion the more realistic that they can make the art style while still maintaining readability and similarity to the old models, the better . I personally love the new look, the use of PBR, and the metal shader they currently have… though shoulder pads and hammers could perhaps be a little bit smaller : )

@Safiron-21678

I absolutely agree, of course there are flaws but they will definitely fix it. This is Blizzard and it’s time to change in terms of the style of the game, the new style is more realistic - this is a new level for the game with 16 year

@Luneth-11884

I love the new look, especially Arthas. He’s bloody beautiful and everything I would expect a prince to be.

@Gavril07-1204

I totally agree. I LOVE Warcraft 3 too.

And I like the realistic style more than cartoonish. It is the best visual evolution. It’s amazing that creatures and characters look more and more like kinematics.

I like the appearance of HoTs, but the one of Reforged even more. In HoTs the characters look more flat and disproportionate in some cases.
I really do not feel at all that with Reforged they are getting away from the essence of Warcraft. In fact they do it better and better by making the game more and more similar to the movies.

The work they have done is outstanding, it has failures but is because it needs to be polished. And it is normal given that they are at an pre alpha stage. Metallness looks great. They just need to improve the detail, sharpness, along with the brightness and colors. And keep working with the designs. Improving the modeling of characters, giving them more definition, clarity, sharpness, detail, etc …

Designers must continue to improve the effects, movements, response of the commands and actions… I would also like them improve a little bit more the environment in general (structures, buildings, mountains, trees, grass, terrain, fire …) Continue to improve the effects so that there be a greater visual jump with respect to the original game. Change maybe a bit the size of some units, heroes, even the buildings so that everything be better and more harmonious.

I want to take this opportunity to talk about Illidan. I know you have not shown it yet. But since he is my favorite character. I want him to be made with the best possible design.

I would like Illidan’s appearance not to be like Heroes of the Storm. There he looks very old. For his face.
I would also like him not to be so thick, if not a little thinner and at the same time defined. (Muscular and stylized at the same time) Those 2 points would give him more eye-catching.

@Velovar-11135

Had to login to voice my opinion, I am an artist working in the industry. Art of reforged is fantastic. Everyone imagined what would it be like if in-game graphics were as good as cinematics. Keep up the good work Blizz, cant wait to get my hands AGAIN on best game ever made!

@AngryCats-1999

I like the new art style much better than the old! I started warcraft with Warcraft 2 and have played 1-3 plus expansions and as much as I love the old games, I do want fancier graphics now. I like what they are doing with this game, very much. I hope they keep it.

@Surge-1396

It’s such a great style. Does anyone know or know someone that has suggested Night elf ground? Undead get dead looking ground however I was thinking it would look cool if blizzard did like a nice root, lively look to the grass for night elf… Wonder if blizzard have considered this

@BersserKeR-21562

I completely agree with you. I’m just wondering why are they demanding a lower quality art. If they really want a lower quality art, they can just stick with the old game, that’s pretty much it. They are just trying to ruin the game for everybody else, what a drag. We are dying here to see a more detailed, gorgeous, HD units, a dream that’s finally come true.

People WANTED the EPIC AND MODERN REALISTIC LOOK IN 2018!

[MayGodbless-3780]

Thank you for your job for quoting threads but unfortunately It is not justifiable because you can pick what you want. No one can generalize how their opinions were unless he is God. The point is not how they want. The point is even though they did want WC3 Classic back those days, it is never justifiable for lowering the graphics after one whole year.

[AlexT-2215]

This is why it is not a good idea for companies like Blizzard to listen to all the idiots outside, if somebody has a vision to make a great game, make it, then let all the noble prize winners who are so clever in making a game to struggle and swallow their own bad ideas .

[Myhria-11201]

The QUOTES are from people REQUESTING the modern graphics! For this are quoted, we have the evidences! And we have more Topics and Posts requesting that too! So… Hey Purist, stop to try ruin the future of Warcraft 3 Reforged. The group of the purists are small and minimal portion.

[MayGodbless-3780]

My point is you can’t generalize anything based on what you picked. People never believe your quotes especially someone who is opposing your opinion. They will definitely say that you picked Quotes being suitable for your opinions only. it is not important what your quotes are saying. and by the way, I don’t want it to be ruined. I am the one who wants it to be perfect deep in mind. Don’t insult my intend

[Souichirou-11305]

Purists always wants to stop the improvements. Them try everything to ruin the game just to scare the newcomers players and them try to keep being the old fanbase just trying to ruining the success of the game, because that they joke saying them want simple graphics. Some explanation saying about the Purists.

@Souichirou-11305

Purists chase who wants better graphics. These purists want to ruin the future of Warcraft 3 Reforged, just because the game was known for the old fanbase, if the game has a lot of improvements, this game will become very famous and mainstream, that’s the fear of purists, that the game will be so famous and the Their feeling of being the original fanbase will be gone and all kinds of players will appear and become fans as well. Purists are selfish, they want bad graphics to scare off new players, that’s very shameful!

@Souichirou-11305

This plan of the purists is more evident than ever. You are in several forum posts accusing everyone who have feedback and ideas to improve the gameplay and graphics and you go there spamming to start creating a contrary discussion. In some of my posts about graphics I say my feedback, what the game needs to improve on some things, ideas, suggestions and make comparisons between the demo and the beta. I have already cited the current Water Elemental aspect, the shadows that are now weaker in beta and that some visuals have been visually inferior, many liked the modern graphic shown last year, and others liked the simple graphic of that year. I have already cited an idea to fix this problem, which is creating a choice before playing, you choose whether you want the modern graphics or the simple ones. It’s a simple idea that can benefit everyone who is going to play, what matters is that the person feels happy and comfortable when playing, so we are here in the beta giving feedback and ideas. You need stop your hate spreading,trolling and disrespectful posts. You need shown some ideas and feedback for help the game. We are in the forum to help the game be better than ever giving feedback,ideas and suggestions!

[Shade-1794]

The problem is, the 2018 graphics were not better. I couldn’t tell what was happening in the game when I played it at Blizzcon.

I gave the feedback, and I know most people in line were saying the same thing.

What is pretty and what is playable are two different things.

[Triceron-1519]

I doubt they are taking anything away.

What we’ve seen is most of the capabilities are in the game, they’re just not allowed to play on max settings or cranked far enough to match the original demo.

Now I know some things like terrain look terrible, and the lighting is off. This is something that could be added and changed later in the process, as what they seem to be doing is focusing on optimization and frame rate. If they just allow people to max out the settings then it may impede on the work and data they’re collecting right now. We’re seeing similar things with other features that have been missing being added in slowly, like a skin chooser or updating unit animations. Lighting is usually the last thing that’s tackled.

Is what I’m saying a guarantee that the game will look better? Of course not. What I’m saying is there is room for them to improve and update the graphics given that what they seem to be testing is optimization and bugs more than giving us full access to a final build. We don’t know if this is what they plan to give us as a final product.

Lighting and Shadows may be optional toggles moving forward. We simply don’t know yet, and I think beta is not a good indicator of this. As for people saying they should add in top settings so people can test right now - Well, yes, they should add a lot of things for people to test like male DK and the campaigns for testing too and custom maps and 12v12 maps. But that would be pushing things to breaking limit, and that is not a good way to test and collect data when you know people are already having trouble with current graphics settings getting good FPS on a 4v4.

That is why I think having some patience is necessary to see things through. I am not saying stop the criticism and feedback - This is necessary. What I am saying is don’t treat this as Blizzard taking something away from us, because we don’t know if that is true.

[stormknight-21406]

@Xan-2161

What does the art style has to do with worst terrain, worst trees, worst shadows and so on? I actually don’t mind the units, they look great… The problem is with everything else, the units just look odd. I still like the game but… Meh…

worse worse worse ? calm down from your high horse.

Terrain looks more closer to classic, so you’re basically saying classic looks like sh!t which you can get lost in that case.

[Riptor-1789]

“Purists always wants to stop the improvements.”

#1 tactic of people with no argument. Start everything with a false premise.

[Xan-2161]

The terrain was great in W3 TFT… Back in 2003… 17 years later and the terrain looks like sh!t! Try comparing the terrain in your precious classic to a 2019 game and see how that compares.

[Myhria-11201]

@Xan-2161

The terrain was great in W3 TFT… Back in 2003… 17 years later and the terrain looks like sh!t! Try comparing the terrain in your precious classic to a 2019 game and see how that compares

Yes! Agreed! Terrain need some improviments! Now this terrain of beta look so weak and simple! And so much overcolor too! Needs match again with the last year terrain! They have shown a smooth terrain in demo, so needs match again with that i think!