Lets talk about one of the most nonsensical decisions ever made with regard to Overwatch: Why/How did No Limits get included with Mystery Heroes?
The devs have already shown that they were well aware of how terrible a game mechanic it is when they removed it from QP early in the game’s history…so how did someone possibly think it was a good idea for MH? (Jeff himself has stated that he hate “no limits”)…And we know you (the devs) are keenly aware of how hated it is based on the most recent Dev Update where you specifically mention how WE can make a more better version in workshop (more on that below)…not to mention a fairly reoccurring topic on here
So lets break it down…Lets look at just how broken this mechanic is (and im removing all subjectivity from this argument…this isnt about “fun/unfun” as its my favorite game mode by a longshot as is…doesnt mean its not insanely broken)
Note: this is also not asking for removal of current version…an alternate version would do just fine
The Chief Problem
Put simply, the mode CANNOT handle hero stacking…because the game itself wasnt designed and isnt balanced around teams being able to have 2 or more copies of abilities(heroes) on the game field at the same time…
why is that a problem? because 2 or 3 discord orbs is not something youre meant to deal with…5 barriers is not something youre meant to deal with in a game with only 3 barrier characters…2 resurrects, 2 or more zaryas making it so that each one has 2-3 bubbles (perma bubble)…2 or more turrets covering every angle of objective…2 of ANY ultimate…etc etc…none of those things are meant to exist…even if you wanted to say “thats easy - just counter with anti-X abilities”…you cant because YOU CANNOT PICK COUNTERS
and more importantly some characters are just plain hard to deal with even when theres just one of them (brig, pharah, tracer)…so the game mode can very easily swing just based on either team getting a hero stack (ANY - some worse than others)…this isnt no limits where you can simply just switch to counters and in general negate the effect of one team getting 2 of something…so it honestly doesnt matter which character theres 2 of…you cannot adjust to it
The end result is that the “hero stacking” is not a gimic…its a game deciding mechanic
How?
It completely messes up ult economy - in a mode where obtaining an ultimate is even more important than normal (since youre not guaranteed to ever get one), a hero stack usually means that they WILL be getting ults more often…for the simple reason that they are just harder to deal with and eliminate…swinging the odds even more in favor of said team…(also tends to cause a snowball effect)
Because timing factors in HEAVILY - if you play the mode this is the most obvious one…depending on when they happen it can pretty much lead to an objective being captured/held instantly because if its late in the timer there simply isnt enough time for the opposing team to have RNG grant them a good countering comp…(MAJOR snowball contributer)…having said that it often doesnt matter anyway if the stack is just that problematic
Dont believe me? Lets look at some games…
**CLICK FOR GAME LOG**
2/27
-
volskaya defense - triple roadhog after losing first point - WIN - not even close…enemy team never made it past the second choke point
-
junkertown defense - after rolling with ease to last point enemy team got a double dva comp right at the end and that was enough til end of rund - LOSS
-
hanamura offense - enemy team had double moiras…we never made it past first choke - LOSS
-
hollywood offense - double bastion…team took close to 4 minutes completely stalled on first point…until we got triple pharah…only to then get stuck at the end due to double orisa - LOSS
-
anubis defense - we get double symmetras and double mercy on last point…enemy team may as well have given up right then and there - WIN
-
Oasis - first round win though enemy team got a second mercy spawn right before round ended…that carried to next round where they win 100-0…third round we manage to kill the mercys near the end…they come back as double DVA - LOSS
3/5 (first 5 games of the day)
-
numbani offense - get past first point…second point 2 enemy had 2 torbjorns and a bastion waiting…LOSS
-
numbani defense - double pharah with a mercy - enemy team never really contested 1st point WIN
-
junkertown offense - roll through 1st and second points…double zaryas on defense - about pointless minutes later we kill their mercy…she comes out as another zarya - LOSS
-
join with 5 secs left (you see!!!
!!!) -
volskaya defense - double lucios - enemy “rolled” through both points in about 90 secs - LOSS
-
ilios - we get double moiras at ~50%…round over…2nd round we get double torbs at around 30%…round over - WIN
3/8 (first 6 games)
-
hanamura defense - enemy triple reaper at spawn…game over LOSS
-
numbani defense - double mei before first point…additional double dva second point…game over LOSS
-
no stacking in this game - loss but didnt matter it was close whole time
-
lunar colony offense - enemy double orisa + bastion - never a contest - LOSS
-
kings row attack - take first and second points - enemy team triple zaryas at 3rd point - pointless 4 minutes - LOSS
-
first win of day…no stacking
3/11 (the epitome of why this is broken)
- kings row attack - enemy double orisa/double dva/roadhog at spawn…miracle dva bomb kills orisas…they come back as torbs…gruel out kills of the torbs…double dvas again in addition to 1 from earlier…so 3 dvas…LOSS no matter how well we played
3/18
-
volskaya attack - we had double mercys at spawn … steamroll…not sure if anyone died - WIN
-
kings row defense - double moiras after first point - LOSS
-
volksaya offense - triple torb on 1st point - laughably funny…LOSS
-
hanamura offense - double bastion on first point…never contested…LOSS
3/21
-
hollywood attack - enemy team got 4(!) moiras after first point…round ended right there - LOSS
-
blizzworld attack - we get double symmetra and double mercy at spawn…literally steamrolled all the way to end WIN
-
dorado attack - take first and second points - 3rd point double mercys come out… LOSS
-
gibraltar defense -lose first point with double hogs…stall them on 3rd point…get double lucios…instant LOSS
-
gibraltar offense - enemy gets double symmetra and bastion on last point…game over LOSS
3/22
-
lijian tower - first round 3 DVAs…2nd round they end up getting 2 Brigittes and 2 torbs…both LOSSES
-
no stacking noticeable…WIN
-
Blizz def - double brigitte on second point…complete stall…LOSS
-
volskaya attack - double lucio…easy roll…WIN
-
normal game - LOSS on 3rd point
3/23
-
dorado def - double pharah on first point - enemy never progressed…WIN
-
dorado att - normal match WIN
-
Holly def - double orisa and torb pirate ship - never a contest…LOSS
-
hollywood att - 2nd point double bastion - instant LOSS
10/27
-
Hollywood Dec - Attacking team started the match with 3 mercys which then turned into 2 brigs - from the first obejective to the last objective the payload never stopped moving - Never in doubt LOSS
-
Anubis Def - Attacking team rolled through first point with double Lucios, very long hold on 2nd pt after we managed to kill 1…no stacking at end - WIN
-
Numbani Def - Hold 1st pt for 3 minutes until enemy got 2 Lucios…rolled all the way to the last pt where 1 died after it was too late - LOSS
-
Junkertown Att - Take first and 2 pts in a span of about 2 minutes with double hogs…eventually win with no noticeable stacking at the end - WIN
-
Nepal - 1st pt - 2 Lucios hold (noone died) - WIN, 2nd pt - no stacking - WIN
-
Gibraltar Def - 2 Mercy storm through first point, 1 died and the entire rest of round was normal - WIN
-
Oasis - 1st pt - hold first point until 2 Winstons - no contest rest of way (LOSS), 2nt pt - enemy quickly got 2 Dvas…never close - LOSS
-
Lunar Colony Def - Enemy storms through 1st objective (normally) - we manage to stall 2 attacks on 2nd objective with double hog…eventually lost normally - LOSS
-
Dorado attack - normal first point…about to cap 2nd pt…enemy comes out with double DVA - no contest from there forward - LOSS
-
Hollywood Def - Hold first point until 2 Sombras, hold 2nd pt until enemy shows up with 2 moiras and 2 junkrats…payload didnt stop moving rest of way - no contest LOSS
-
Oasis - 1st pt - start with 2 mei and 2 bastions - no contest win, 2nd pt - melee at beginning but we come back with 2 brig and 2 winston - Instant WIN
-
Lunar Colony Def - Hold first point until 20 secs left - 2 sombra help take and then snowball into EMP slaughter - LOSS
-
Numbani Def - normal first pt, 2 pharah 2nd pt, normal win after 5 mins of holding last pt - came very close to losing when enemy came out with double ana and double rein mei ult only reason we won - WIN
-
Route 66 Def - normal 1st and 2nd pt losses, we got double dva on pt 3…never came close after that WIN
10/28
- Rialto Att - 1st pt normal, we got 3 Dva’s at pt 2…payload never stopped moving - WIN
10/29
-
Blizzworld Att - take first pt easily double Mei, normal finish - WIN
-
Busan - 1st - 2 Dva → 2 Dva again! no contest, 2nd - managed to kill a Dva right at the end but otherwise no contest - WIN
-
Anubis Att - 2 Dva to take first point easily, normal finish - WIN
-
Dorado Def - 2 Zens to start payload couldnt even round the first building, manage to kill a zen with about 30 secs remaining and took first point but we held normally at 2nd - WIN
-
Eichenvalde Att - enemy started with 3 Mercys - barely managed to take obj time, then enemy held at 3rd pt with 3 hanzos…didnt not move payload until we got 2 Moira at which point we steam rolled - WIN
-
Hanamura Att - Only stack was 3 Sombras at the end when the objective was already pretty much decided - normal WIN
-
Route 66 Att - take first pt with 2 bastions, the rest of the way we had 2 Zaryas then 2 Moiras then 2 Brigs…payload never stopped moving - WIN
-
Oasis - 1st - 2 Zens…no contest (loss), 2nd - we held pt 99-0 when 2 Dvas showed up…eventually managed a win, 3rd - normal round WIN
-
Numbani - take first 2 pts easily…rest of round was against double Moira - i dont think a single enemy died after that - no contest LOSS
-
Nepal - 1st - double reaper…no contest win, 2nd - normal WIN
4/11
-
Gibraltar Def - join on pt 3, 30 secs after pushing back enemy, 3 Dvas come out of spawn…game instantly over - LOSS
-
Oasis - 1st pt - complete stall until we got 2 tracers…normal finish WIN - 2nd pt - normal match WIN
-
Ilios - join 2nd pt - no stacking - WIN - 3rd - 2 Zaryas from the start…team never touches the point - 100-0 no contest LOSS
-
Oasis - 1st - not a single stack for entire match 100-99 LOSS - 2nd - double road hog slaughter 100-0 WIN - 3rd - Normal round 100-0 LOSS
-
Volskaya Def - 2 Ashe’s at beginning but otherswise a stackless game that went the distance - WIN
4/12
-
Junkertown Att - normal start…stall on second point until 2 bastions…normal finish - WIN
-
King’s Row Def - a complete hold on first point until 2 symmetras come out just before overtime…end up getting 2 pharahs and manage to stall them at 2nd point until overtime…out come 2 Dvas…payload never stopped moving after that point…steamroll from pt 2 → 3 LOSS
-
Dorado Att - complete stall on first point until we got 2 Orisas…steam roll all the way to 2nd bridge…stall…get 2 Zaryas…steamroll to the end - no contest - WIN
-
Anubis Def - complete hold on 1st pt until 2 Dvas come out right at the end…steamroll through 2nd pt - No Contest - LOSS
4/13
-
Nepal - 1st - Nothing - LOSS - 2nd - 2 times the pt swung on double Ashe but otherwise ended up normally - WIN - 3rd - Dominate until 2 soldiers swing the point…we end up swinging back with 2 soldiers of our own - WIN
-
Lunar Colony Def - Started with 2 Meis and 2 Widows - im not sure enemy every touched the point…No contest - WIN
-
Blizzworld Att - 2 Tracers from start to finish…the payload never stopped moving - No contest WIN
-
Rialto Def - Normal (outside of having 4 healers) - Not really a contest - LOSS
-
Numbani Att - Enemy started with with 2 Hog’s and 2 Zen’s…managed to pry away in OT with 2 Zarya’s…Eventually added 2 Dva’s before second point…laughable match after that point…No Contest WIN
-
Eichenvalde Att - Normal 1st pt…get 2 brigs right before the bridge…payload never stopped moving - no Contest WIN
-
Oasis - 1st - normal - 2nd - 4 healer stonewall - WIN
-
Volskaya Def - Normal round until FOUR torbjorns come out just before OT and steamrolled all the way to the end (so much lava…) - LOSS
4/15
-
Kings Row Att - Normal all the way until match stonewalls on final point…we spawn 2 Moiras…instant game over - WIN
-
Rialto Att - normal 1st point…then get double hog…laughable from then on…steamroll WIN
-
Ilios - 1st - normal 100-0 LOSS - 2nd - more faceroll but we manage to get 2 Baptistes to take back at 80%…eventually end up losing anyway 100-99 - LOSS
-
Busan - join at end of 2nd…normal WIN - 3rd - complete domination with 2 soldiers…enemy takes back with 2 Baptiste…eventually we pulled out WIN
-
Ilios - 1st - double Mercy - No contest LOSS - 2nd - continue their mercy oppression until out comes THREE Zarya and TWO Moira - No Contest - WIN - 3rd - lose one of the Zaryas and 2 deaths later we get her back…Hilarious - WIN
Those are my actual games on completely random days (going back a year)…the wins and losses are only highlighted to show that its pretty even both ways (its not like i dont benefit from this as well)…this isnt about wins/losses…its about how lopsided those games are…just go through and look at how many are of the “No Contest” variety…Most of the games are decided not by the players but simply by who got what stack and when…think about how that feels in a game thats supposed to reward skill…
Further Issues
leavers - you think theyre a problem in other game modes? MH has just about a 100% chance that you will have 1-10 leaver PER MATCH…“nobody” wants to be in a game they know they have 0 chance of winning…and guess what that means…CONSTANT BACKFILL…and we all know how much people LOVE backfill
Role Balance - This is going to be a problem even without stacking but its actually made worse by no limits…imagine if it didnt exist…if you can no longer get hero stacks…then that effectively means each time you die you have a higher chance of getting a team need (as you have 6 characters no longer available to you when you respawn)…too many dps…well im less likely to get DPS again…its a small improvement…but anything that would help get your team tanks/heals when youre dps heavy (or vice versa) would help…
The Workshop Version is NOT a Solution
Im bringing up the workshop version for several reasons:
"Balanced MH" - So the workshop version was put up so that people could try out a version where the group always has tanks and heals…but all it did was showcase why you cant have role locking in MH…because its pretty hard to ever switch off your role…if you die as a tank…well…youre spawning as a tank…cause the team still has to have 2…the only way to switch is if several people die at once which CAN happen…but isnt as frequent as one might think in this game mode…basically theres no “Mystery” in this version
Potential Arcade Mode or not? - I dont know what the future of the workshop version is…but i hope that it doesnt mean that it has a chance of making it on to the arcade…because that version might be even worse than what we currently have…at least tell us there is a plan to possibly showcase user created game modes in the arcade (or better yet - permanent additions if really popular) because i know people can do better than the options currently available
It does showcase how easy a fix it would be though
I mean look at this…thats all it took to make the workshop version…3 codes + a few changes that we can already do on the live custom mode…
The ACTUAL CHANGE/FIX this game mode needs is just the 2nd picture…thats ALL they would have to do make Mystery Heroes like it shouldve always been…Blizz…just add that mode to the arcade…dont have to get rid of the old one…just add that one
Final Thoughts
The Best Game Mode in Overwatch (fight me 
) is loooong overdue the attention it deserves:
Alternate MH on Arcade…same as current just one very simple change:
Hero Limit: 1 per team
it already exists in custom modes im sure…just add a slot for it…thats all we ask
TL:DR - its not a question of the game mode not being fun, Mystery Heroes (the game mode) literally cannot handle hero stacking/no limits…it dictates what happens in the game mode…I would love to see the devs actually add in an alternate version without it as they said they have considered in the past…and it would be EXTREMELY easy to do…the workshop version is NOT a solution
