“were weaker…”
In terms of damage, only if you stacked one god damn stat… which people DID IN FACT ask to change.
tl;dr at bottom
A well-known complaint by many players is that vulnerability is disproportionately powerful, and that there shouldn’t be a “hidden bucket system” for damage calculation.
A bucket system describes the effect of damage calculation in the game, but I don’t believe this is what the developers intended, and the whole problem is instead an oversight with implementation and balance not being aligned around treating this stat as a buff vs a debuff effect.
Here is how the game describe…
I’m really enjoying the game so far, but one of the common issues/complaints I see is surrounding vulnerability as a mechanic and how it has caused several builds to require a source of vulnerability in order to be viable.
I think there is a simple and easy solution for vulnerability, but it would require some dev work and a rebalance of skills afterward.
Firstly, why is Vulnerability a problem?
I think the main issue here is just how every build needs a source of it at the moment due to how …
So now that we have had a few weeks to play the game, I thought having a forum post regarding the damage buckets would be a healthy conversation to help add more build variety.
The main problem I have identified in the current iteration of damage buckets is that vulnerable as a multiplier is just too good, but only some classes have a very niche way to apply vulnerable while others really struggle to apply it without branching off of their class playstyle which hurts build diversity.
The curre…
After playing diablo 4 for quite a while i find that vulnerable damage need to be removed or reworked any build that is broken or able to clear easily uses vulnerable damage. and it kills build diversity. since your forced into only a few way to apply vulnerable damage per class.
Update
It is sad to see after patch notes they did nothing to fix the problem with vulnerable simply slapping it with a 40% reduction didn’t achieve anything it is still mandatory and more so now since they Nerfed Cri…
I am gonna start off by pointing out how strong of a class Rogue is and how the general consensus seems to be that most everything in a rogues kit is viable in the game.
The thing I noticed about rogues over the other 4 classes in this game is also that it has the most access to Vulnerability application of any class in the game.
I counted in the skill tree 8 skills have the ability to apply Vulnerability. Three basics, two cores, one defensive, and two imbuements. Almost all of these are spre…
I feel like the pros outweigh the cons here. Think of all the build diversity that opens up if we don’t have to slot vulnerability? I mean rogues and barbs are going to comment it doesn’t matter but I for one would like to open up a glyph slot and not be forced to run 1-2 skills that grant me a vulnerable window. It is a nice mechanic initially but I feel like it should be more along the lines of stagger windows. As in if they don’t change it to be additive it instead builds up and creates a win…
Would be cool if they fix Vulnerable on the 18th to balance the game and scaling issues for every Class.
Vulnerable should be a “Condition” that is random that increases damage by 20%. Remove Vulnerable stat from the game. Exploit Glyph “mod” gives a 30% chance of Vulnerable.
Tada game is instantly better.
If Vulnerable is a static 20% multiplier it’s still very good and if it becomes a true “Condition” that is like stagger. It’s still very strong and balanced across builds now. Class bal…
Updated based on discussion of the first 38 comments.
Suggestion: Make the vulnerable damage mod additive instead of multiplicative.
Reason:
Multiplicative modifiers, or buckets as some people are calling them, make damage numbers go exponential. This is extremely hard to balance around, and makes the leveling experience strange for “us normal folks” or “casual gamers”.
Why?
Since you have to balance around this exponential curve, it means monsters follow the exponential curve. Hence, someo…
Hurts build diversity when pretty much every build is a Vulnerable build. Too much damage loaded into a conditional effect. Cap Vulnerable at 25% or something. 300% Vulnerable damage is dumb.
As many others have probably brought to light, the issue with vulnerable affix and the power it brings to the game IS AN ISSUE. The whole concept forces builds into having to have a way to apply vulnerable status to mobs, which prevents a lot of builds/build diversity.
For instance, you can’t be a ranged sorc if you have to walk into a mob pack and nova them to guarantee vulnerable. You have super limited options to apply vulnerable and since it is so powerful, it is needed in high end NM to ki…
It’s time. This stat dictates what build to use and not to use. It makes multiple builds and skills obsolete. It is the #1 bonehead move by the devs in this game. Even if you made Exploit grant vulnerable to Necro/Sorc it wouldn’t fix the problem and damage bloat. Damage is literally INSANE due to this stat.
World Bosses being deleted in seconds due to this stat has got to go. I feel this is a massive oversight on Blizzard’s part and I seriously hope on the 6th they have some answers for this.
…
Vulnerable is a terrible system just like Slag was in Borderlands 2. There’s a reason why Slag was never seen again in any of the sequels. We need a band-aid until Vulnerable can be overhauled or just outright removed.
I’ve been mainlining Barb since launch. I push T70+ NM with an off-meta build but I have 100% up-time on Vulnerable and I still hate it. I feel bad for all those Sorcs that want to do anything other than Ice Shards and Frost Nova; or any Necro that isn’t Bone; or Barrage Rogues. …
==Intro==
Hi everyone,
*D4 Devs, if you take the time to read this, thank you.
**Streamers, if you’re reading this, have fun if you wanna tear it apart for free content haha.
***Normies like me, enjoy reading and please participate to the discussion down below.
I’m Wax, an avid arpg/mmorpg player since Diablo 1 / WoW. I’d shortly describe myself as an efficiency and min/maxer addict as well as an “hardcore gamer” and “elitist”. Going to exilecon next month, it’ll be awesome. That said, take…
I feel likes sorcerers are not distant range class. The camera always zoom at me that’s why i must to fight in close range. I think Blizzard want us to see cosmetic closely that they want to sell cosmetics.
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Since vulnerable is super strong damage boots. We are forced to use Frost nova to vulnerable enemies. and yes , i must fight in close range again. Only ice shard builds can work well because it’s can do vulnerable itself. (Fire and Lightning builds can play but forced to use Frost Nova)
…
If you have to use Stagger mechanics to clear content that is almost impossible to do otherwise I would say that class is weak or not working as intended. The scorceror is currently the weakest because of it’s inabillaty to apply vulnerability apart from fn. There are people coming for advise and trolls responding. Suggestions are cool but Trolling is not.
The number one thing preventing builds from being viable is the vulnerability debuff. The builds that are viable are ones that can constantly have this up. Why is that? Because it’s a major multiplier in damage. Imaging a fireball sorc being able to do their full dmg all the time because they had 100% vulnerability uptime, that would easily make them do 2-4x the dmg, thus making them viable.
The worst part about it is you cannot overcome the vulnerability dmg increase by stacking a ton of crit …
I’ve been 100 for a while and min/maxing gear for higher nightmare dungeons and prepping for uber lilith.
If you’ve been following some of the youtube/twitch videos of uber lilith, you’ll see a super huge issue with Barbarian. Damage consistency. The other classes seem to have extremely consistent damage by being able to reliably apply vulnerable, etc. Lets ignore the fact for now that vulnerable is an AWFUL concept in this game and should be removed completely for now.
Barbarian has a huge is…
Almost every class and every build so far is building off of vulnerability. Vulnerability can proc 100% and items can have vulnerable damages affixes as high or higher then crit damage.
So the question is why would i ever roll items affix into crit over vulnerability? You wouldn’t. Crit has a chance % but vulnerability will always proc 100%. Sure you can stack crit ontop of vulnerability but vulnerability is way to over powered.
Suggestion:
Make vulnerable damage a fixed 30% chance to proc in…
There, I said it.
Because of it’s multiplicative nature, it is a mandatory stat in every single build, you are forced to have a source of vulnerability or you will effectively slash your damage in half because of how ridiculously high the value of vulnerability is. With just the weapon enchant on sacred+ gear, you get 80%+ vulnerability, that’s a 1.8x modifier on all of your damage. Compare this to the amount of investment required for crit to provide anywhere close to that, vulnerability just …
Just adding my voice to the pile.
As someone who experienced my damage getting multiplied by roughly 20 times from vulnerability after I invested a bit into it - it feels wrong. I know I can get at least twice the amount of ‘damage to vulnerable enemies’ than I currently have which would Multiply my damage by 40?
Anyone who felt like basic skills are useless in early game will quickly realize that in endgame their core skills feel exactly like that when hitting a non-vulnerable target.
And to…
Like the passive “Improved Barrage” from barrage skill.
Why? Because we do not have any source that makes bosses vulnerables except for the blast-trapper’s aspect, which forces you to use traps in your build to work. This makes rapid fire not viable vs bosses and monsters that you cant kill in the 3sec window of exploit glyph, because we lose the jucy % dmg of vulnerable.
Rapid fire is a build that you play as range rogue, you do not want to be in melee range to use traps for bosses/mosters so…
Every competent high-end Sorc build currently utilizes Frost Nova with the “Mystical Frost Nova” modifier due to how reliant Sorc damage is on the Vulnerability effect.
While I understand Blizz dev’s logic shared in their last Campfire Chat (i.e, reasons why there is more of a focus on nerfing one outlier instead of buffing everything else), I do hope that a more nuanced approach is taken for this case of Sorcerers and the Vuln mechanic. Where instead of nerfing the effect, we see buffs elsewhe…
Vulnerable has been a contentious point of debate since the game release. I believe this mechanic is a problem for the health of the game and if fundamentally flawed. To explain this, I’ll focus on the presumed core philosophy of the vulnerable condition problems and the flaws of the debuff when applied to an arpg like diablo.
The idea inside the designers mind remains a partial mystery. One can only speculate. The philosphy behind vulnerable is to provide weak abilities with powerful debuffing…
The issues with this game have been discussed ad nauseum on here, and most of them are valid criticisms but are things that I think will be remedied over time. Mob density, inventory management, balance, and a lack of end game content are things that I believe are relatively easy to fix given additional development time, so I’m not going to harp on them.
I’m more concerned about what appears to be a foundational issue with the way the game is set up, and one that results in a total lack of buil…
So correct me if I’m wrong, but currently dmg is applied based on: Stats * Additives * Vulnerability * Crit/Overpower * Other multipliers (aspects, passives…).
Because of the given formula, every build usually stacks one source of dmg increase against X (dmg against burning, against bleeding, poisoned…) while also being forced into taking one source for vulnerability.
Because of this, most sorcs go with the fire bolt enchant and use frost nova, for example, and this is also the main reason why…
Don’t really know how to start this, but I wanted to give some feedback on the damage formula and affix drops from someone who has probably put in more time than 95% of players. My experience with the game so far has been generally positive, I think the recent patch to nightmare dungeons really helped fix the feel of the end game. It makes the grind feel a lot better. I do hope that eventually we get a tier 5 or maybe a seasonally unique tier 5 so that the open world doesn’t feel less valuable i…
Everything about Diablo 4’s damage system is about stacking as much Vulnerability damage, which really ends up removing player choices. I have a better idea. Most of us know that Vulnerability have it’s own multiplier, what if the highest of vulnerability damage, damage vs slow, damage vs close, damage vs far, damage versus frozen, chilled, stunned etc… will be used as a multiplier. For an example if, I you have 120% vulnerability damage, but you have 170% damage vs close targets, then 120% vuln…
Just as everyone else it seems, I feel forced into using a crossbow for maximum vulnerability damage. What I would like to see, is for the inherent stat to roll on either piece of gear. Crossbows could roll with distant damage and Bows with vulnerability. The only real difference between weapons at that point would be speed and raw damage output.
The affixes already roll that way, I’ve gotten bows with close damage affixes and crossbows with distance affixes. Why not also allow them to roll the…
When you have something designed to give a flat damage increase like vulnerability, that is what the game is built on: Triggering vulnerability as much as possible and min-maxing your damage through that specific stat.
This was an issue in a game from 2010 called Final Fantasy XIII. Admittedly, Final Fantasy XIII was already a very streamlined game, but the game’s build diversity/variety was restricted even further by the stagger mechanic. Every encounter ended up panning out the same exact way…
I was having such a good time in this game with my minion/shadowblight build and then I saw what other people were capable of and realized I had to redesign my entire build around applying Vulnerable. I would have thought that focusing on minion damage/reduction, shadow damage, shadow dot, etc would make for a good build considering it looks like it was intended to be a concrete build, but no, I’ll throw in the same bone skills as every other necro and try to salvage what I’ve built up for 60 l…
“Vulnerable” is making the game boring.
Why, you ask? Because there is already a dominant stat called “Critical”. We have to include “Critical”, so we must consider CSC and CSD. This is acceptable because it’s just one thing we have to include in the build.
However, now we’re also required to incorporate “Vulnerable” because it is overwhelmingly powerful compared to all the other types of damage, such as fire, shadow, curse, overpower, closed, distant, etc. All other damage sources are meaning…
The current vulnerable mechanics are problematic for several reasons; many of which have been discussed here. The top reasons seem to be:
Access to the debuff is inconsistent between classes and within different class archetypes
At endgame vulnerable damage is one of the best stats to obtain
Vulnerable damage is another avenue for power creep as the game ages
My suggestion is to redesign the vulnerable mechanic but keep its general flavor intact. First, vulnerable would be changed from a de…
I don’t like how the devs set up each class to revolve around (vulnerable) which restricts players to a sheep style game play. Barbarian= bleed build or spin to win, necromancy= bleed or bone (sacrificed minions), sorceress= ice nova with ice shards, rouge= poison or knifes, Druid= bear and earth. Each class has the passive that only complete that twos build leaving the other skills begging for attention because they can’t proc vulnerable. Now vulnerable is a good yes but it shouldn’t be availa…
I play Rapid Fire Rogue who reiles on Vulnerability application to spam fire FYI.
Simply put, Vulnerability is too good, even if it doesn’t CC monsters.
It overshadows crowd control effects in team play and it counting towards making any boss stagger is just the icing on the cake of “too easy”, additionally overshadowing cc and lucky hit effects.
What I would like to see happen:
World bosses in WT3/4 actually matter (including most if not all dungeon bosses), with proper scaling and with mo…
Lot of arguments over vulnerable damage, issues are nuanced, but I came up with a VERY easy fix/improvement for Blizzard:
Change all ‘damage vs’ to ‘vulnerable damage vs’ and reduce them by 50%
This would make the vulnerable bucket MUCH larger, while adding conditions as to how you would accomplish the bucket damage maximization.
This would lessen the number of +damage bonuses, which would greatly decrease the size of the largest damage bucket, making it far more powerful for each individual …
With a good portion of the playerbase touching lvl 75 it’s now become clear as a discussion point and very recently on reddit in that the view on ‘Vulnerable’ is simply, it’s too good with it being too easy to proc, it’s duration is too long (ie, Rogue Concealment skill > next attack applies 6 seconds of Vul…), it completely makes a joke of the defenses of any boss/world boss and it takes precedence in any build where you wish to deal good and consistent damage.
So, who could even come out with…
Vulnerability is cool. It’s all about just doing more damage. That should stay powerful.
There are two problems with it, though, from my point of view:
It appears on items to be just like the other conditional modifiers, so it is really not apparent how important it is unless you come to the forums (where you will be told to stack it blindly)
It is so strong that most builds are warped to try to maximize uptime on it
I propose a simple solution that helps both these problems:
Put all…
After spending many hours leveling up to 90ish, I learned about the damage buckets and saw vulnerability is separated from poison, frozen, bleeding, burning, and now I am quitting the game.
From my perspective, I want to make a unique build that performs at the higher levels both in PVE and PVP… I play druid.
Because vulnerability exists, it is defining which abilities I should be using in order to proc it. STORM/Raven. I know a glyph exists to proc it, but that’s every 30 seconds for 3 second…
Meanwhile, nearly all of the other damage affixes were buffed to compensate for Vuln/crit/weapon stat nerf. NOW, vuln should be closer to the level of everything else. If you stacked ONE stat on your gear, that everyone KNEW was OP, which many of you drama queens are admitting in your very own rants about it “being the only way”… then your emotional trauma is on you.
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