Vulnerability shouldn't be its own dmg bucket

PC General Discussion
1

So correct me if I’m wrong, but currently dmg is applied based on: Stats * Additives * Vulnerability * Crit/Overpower * Other multipliers (aspects, passives…).

Because of the given formula, every build usually stacks one source of dmg increase against X (dmg against burning, against bleeding, poisoned…) while also being forced into taking one source for vulnerability.

Because of this, most sorcs go with the fire bolt enchant and use frost nova, for example, and this is also the main reason why many meta builds ignore legendary nodes in paragon boards and simply stack rare nodes with increased damage against X and vulnerability dmg, with gems to then support both stats.

Personally, I like vulnerability. I think the game has room for it, but because it adds multiplicative to all other variables in the damage formula, it’s feast or famine with this one. Instead, I believe that the game could benefit from treating vulnerability as bleeding, burning or chilled, with its own flavour being that everyone starts with the extra +20% dmg against the enemy.

I know I don’t need to follow the meta. Personally, I’m playing my own meteor build and I’m not even in WT4 so I do not have the NEED for these shenanigans. Nevertheless, I can already read the writing on the wall when I contrast how long I take to down a boss or a pack with frost nova vs without it.

I do not know what the devs think about vulnerability, and I would love to hear from them on this one, but I also would love to see what the community thinks. Do you feel like vulnerability is fine as it is, do you think it needs to be reworked, or maybe even deleted?

3 Likes
2

It’s technically an unnecessary stat.

Unlike Damage Vs Close or Damage Vs Distant. It’s an all or nothing multiplier that anyone who can get, will get. It could be entirely removed with enemy health modified and not be missed.

It doesn’t help Overpower is incredibly niche. One would expect Barbs to be going Overpower but they don’t. They do Vulnerability like everyone else.

3

They built it into too many systems, given that they cant balance things at all they will probably end up making things even worss

3 Likes
4

I think it should stay as it is, but sources of applying it should be limited. For example, something you only see once every 20 seconds and you can line it up with your damage cooldowns.

That may require too much thought for the average player though, and we’ll still get complaints.

5

I sort of see the point people make about vulnerability, but I don’t understand why people seem to think vulnerability is bad, but crit damage is ok. They are both in their own buckets. If vulnerability is nerfed, it just makes crit damage that much more important. Some classes have better access to vulnerability than crit damage and vice versa.

6

I don’t know if I’d want to see it disappear, but I see your point. I actually like the idea of lining up your cd’s to small bursts of dmg and that vulnerability feels more like a support status for group play, but I would also see much more build diversity.

Maybe devs have though about removing the entire stat, but I doubt it would be easy. Adjusting every enemy’s health, in multiple difficulties, while also changing every glyph, paragon node, legendaries and abilities that work with vulnerability is a gigantic task. If it were to happen, we’d need to wait a long time.

7

Skills don’t have crit attached to them generally(though there are a few). Stacking crit doesn’t change what builds are viable.

Needing vulnerability damage means your build must include vulnerability application.

If they changed + % vulnerability to +% damage against everything in all circumstances as it’s own bucket, then it’d stop being build restricting.

8

hey if we’re the testers now lets do some testing
remove vuln for a week and we see how it goes!

9

I think part of this whole “so many damage systems” bit is due to the way they’ve designed the game. They want you to be playing in groups so that everyone can dump their damage in their own stat (poison, bleed, freeze, fire, vulnerability, etc) and then you’re all feeding off each other. Which is fine, in theory, but how many people are going to be playing 100% in group play? Probably few, so we all have to play these jack of all trades because if you spec into one single damage source, it’s not great to play and the sorc is probably the best example of this

Want a viable sorc build? Build into fire, freeze AND lightning, along with stun and vulnerability

Usually in ARPG’s you can just spec into one element and be a master of it and delete entire screens worth of mobs, but doing that here is 1. Too cost intensive (get ready for reroll city!) 2. So niche within a build that it’s nigh impossible to find the proper items for it (if you don’t want to go the reroll route) Not to mention the paragon board’s complete and utter lack of respect for elemental damage specilization (you get rare nodes of each elemental dmg type, sure but most of your damage is just simply “non-physical dmg” buffs, which is Blizz telling us they want us to take all the elements, and not specialize)

1 Like
10

Mostly for me it’s that vuln only comes from some skills and not others. It means I’m picking the skills that can proc it and the others are honestly dead already.

11

I agree with you, crits have a chance to happen so even if one were to stack crit dmg it would still need to proc. And I might be very wrong about this since I only have played Sorc, but I believe that there are no paragon boards that increase crit dmg?

12

yeah, there is only the destructive glyph.

13

i don’t like it that i have to rely on the frost nova window to get any damage out: without it up, my dps drops off immensely. all sorc builds are forced to use FN b/c of this which means even less diversity. blah.

1 Like
14

its too important right now, as you stated. Basically a do or die. Also, agreed with the person that it knocks out a lot of other skills and options to change builds up.

bottom line: it’s just OP right now ? lower the %'s or have cdr on it

15

The Exploit glyph has to go. It negates too many other design choices.

You can keep vulnerable and you can keep it it’s own multiplier if the numbers are much smaller, but everyone needs to have good access to it. Skills having to pick between vulnerable or something else is good, Sorcs having to take Frost Nova just to get the game’s biggest multiplier is not good.

1 Like
16

It is the one I focused on because it was the most straightforward and easiest to understand so please no deleting!

17

Vulnerability is the Replacement for D3’s Area damage proc?! Ftw.

18

It’s about identity and substance, especially when Sorc is at play

Fire = Burning + Damage reduction while Burning + Immob. while burning (at times)
Lightning = Crit + Stun + CD red
Ice = Chill + Freeze + Vuln

Sure you could try to use Meteor with Vuln. but where Meteor is usually designed to be used is with Burning and Immobilization

Perhaps there could be a lucky-hit mech. that does what you want (Vuln. while Burning) but should probably be balanced in a way where Vuln. is still the Frost-themed bonus more so than Fire

19

Yeah, I agree with that take too. I feel like it’s an interesting choice to have, and it’s pretty straightforward: you apply it and the whole group gets extra damage. No distance, no condition, no chance or lucky hit to consider.

The thing is, and since it applies multiplicative with others, right now the best choice is always to have both vulnerability AND a conditional effect, so even the choice of simplicity is lacking.

20

Vulnerability needs removed from the game. It’s a horrible concept. The dmg during vuln is super high but when it falls, you go to 0 dmg. Then on barb, you’re just waiting for it to proc again so I can go from doing 1% dmg a hit to 1 shotting elites.

It creates really awkward moments and inconsistencies of DPS that are simply unfun. The entire concept needs removed.