Opinion on the in-game shop?

[Yranda-pagle]

@Twochainz-stormreaver

So you want a currency that will be just as hard to obtain, or even harder than earning gold that can be made from most content in the game at choice of how you obtain it?

Something like Echoes of Mortality would work. It works as a reward by reflecting how much you actively pay the game as opposed to how many tokens you’ve been buying. It’s also no coincidence that gold rewards are so nerfed and small either, while various items that can only be purchased with gold are so expensive they actually cost far far more than mounts in the store, which also encourages people to just buy it with money. Buying mounts and things with gold worked pretty good until the tokens were introduced.

It all comes back to it being a currency that is sold by the company, that then manipulates the availability of that currency to promote buying it or just using money.

[Yranda-pagle]

@Baridorielor-malfurion

Alright, good.

Just wanted to give you a piece of advice:

Don’t bother with the bunny eared Tauren.

Complete waist of time. It’s better to ignore and avoid reading anything posted by him.

[Baridorielor-malfurion (Baridorielor)]

@Twochainz-stormreaver

I don’t think adding a separate currency will fix anything and will just add currency bloat to the game.

No it wouldn’t. Vanilla to MoP had separate currencies that can allow you to not only buy gear but mounts as well. I think this game will be fine with more currencies, considering Shadowlands has more systems in it then Legion at this point.

@Twochainz-stormreaver

You can’t claim it’s not available to those in-game if it is through earning gold in-game.

The only place you can get the store mounts are from the store. There are not regular drops like other mounts or vendors and such things like that in the actual ingame. In terms of immersion, you practically get those mounts out of nowhere with a possibility of your gold pouch being smaller somehow.

@Twochainz-stormreaver

What’s confusing about it?

What’s so confusing about trying to understand my and Yranda’s points?

@Twochainz-stormreaver

So you want a currency that will be just as hard to obtain, or even harder than earning gold that can be made from most content in the game at choice of how you obtain it?

I’m sorry, but have you never played WoW before? WoW has those things since it’s inception and always still gonna have them.

@Nobully-blackrock

no, i didn’t hear anything about BoEs being pay to win.

Alright, here’s a couple of topics i’ve found that goes in depth of what i’m talking about.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/why-does-community-defend-pay-to-win-aspects/162505

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-pay-to-win-situation/525056

The Taxed Largely; Didn’t Rent version is, Patch 8.3 dropped in that time and that came with it is corruptions. Since corruptions can be on anything, and very powerful, it can be on BoEs and people can sell BoEs to make money. Because WoW Tokens are part of WoW, meaning you can buy gold, the people who sold the BoEs are selling it for very high amounts because the corruptions are very powerful. Because of that, it’s why people were calling it Pay to Win. Even Asmongold has called it that.

While we can blame the people selling the gear here, let’s not forget that it was Blizzard who put it in and allowed it to be on anything. Mind you, Blizzard didn’t really attempt to stop this until Shadowlands pre-patch.

[Vyanta-durotan]

I think it’s a wonderful addition. My daughter collects mounts/pets. I’ve purchased quite a few for her and gifted to her and guild mates at Christmas. They were all happy with their new mounts/pets.

[Baridorielor-malfurion (Baridorielor)]

@Yranda-pagle

Just wanted to give you a piece of advice:

Don’t bother with the bunny eared Tauren.

Complete waist of time.

To be fair though, when it comes to people like that, it’s not really much of a total loss since this is the public (not publicly owned, public in a sense that anybody can see it) forums and people will learn from the back and forth i have with people on learning why i’m this side and why i think their idea isn’t great with evidence, links and things like that. I would never sit here and say “you don’t think with a free will” at people just because they disagree with me.

There’s a reason why Jim Sterling and other people ripped into the whole “it’s just cosmetic” excuse many, many, many times, because it’s a really a silly argument to make.

[Nobully-blackrock (Nobully)]

@Baridorielor-malfurion

Because of that, it’s why people were calling it Pay to Win.

a couple of threads, where most of the posters disagree, doesn’t exactly help prove your point.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

Even Asmongold has called it that.

Nobody ever said he was bright.

[Baridorielor-malfurion (Baridorielor)]

@Nobully-blackrock

a couple of threads

The couple of threads is to give you an idea of whats the community’s issue with, since it was noticeable enough to remember in recent memory.

There’s no genuine reason to dismiss it just because it’s “a couple of threads”.

Infact, here’s more links about it so the idea really sinks in what the GD experienced with back when 8.3 dropped.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-tokens-pay-to-win/474322

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/is-wow-pay2win-now/524883

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/pay-to-win-game/438419

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/83-pay-to-win-raiding/427697

If you can’t understand the idea at this point, i cannot help you any further.

@Nobully-blackrock

Nobody ever said he was bright.

I’m not a fan of Asmongold and to be honest, i wish could care less about the guy as well the people that mention him over and over again, but in my perspective, he seems to care about the game that he enjoys playing in and doesn’t want it to be just like the other games with microtransactions or want to cut it loose.

[Nobully-blackrock (Nobully)]

@Baridorielor-malfurion

There’s no genuine reason to dismiss it just because it’s “a couple of threads”.

so why are you dismissing the fact that the responses are overwhelmingly disagreeing with the sentiment that the game is p2w?

[Baridorielor-malfurion (Baridorielor)]

@Nobully-blackrock

so why are you dismissing the fact that the responses are overwhelmingly disagreeing with the sentiment that the game is p2w?

What fact? Seriously, what fact?

Can you point out this fact? Can you like explain it and not just say “oh it’s a fact” without explaining it? because just doing that isn’t convincing or helpful to anybody.

Do you at least understand the idea here i’m trying to convey to you in the last couple comments about 8.3 and it’s community saying that it’s BoE’s are pay to win? I gave you 4 links here, 6 in total, and yet your blatantly ignoring them. I gave you a summary of what happened.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

The Taxed Largely; Didn’t Rent version is, Patch 8.3 dropped in that time and that came with it is corruptions. Since corruptions can be on anything, and very powerful, it can be on BoEs and people can sell BoEs to make money. Because WoW Tokens are part of WoW, meaning you can buy gold, the people who sold the BoEs are selling it for very high amounts because the corruptions are very powerful. Because of that, it’s why people were calling it Pay to Win. Even Asmongold has called it that.

While we can blame the people selling the gear here, let’s not forget that it was Blizzard who put it in and allowed it to be on anything. Mind you, Blizzard didn’t really attempt to stop this until Shadowlands pre-patch.

[Taladare-stormrage]

a feature that would be great in any game that didnt expect me to buy a full priced expansion every 2 years on top of 15 dollars a month to play a game with heavy timegating anyways.

[Baridorielor-malfurion (Baridorielor)]

@Chroesire-bleeding-hollow

If they have to exist, I’d rather they be marketplaces for the best of the community’s creative output, with the designer and Blizzard dividing the profits… just imagine having a bevy of player-designed cosmetics to choose from, all with vastly differing looks+feels, instead of the handful of Blizz-designed things most of which are kinda ugly.

Looks at Bethesda’s Creation Club.

---

Okay, maybe it’s an unfair comparison here, the player created cosmetics you said here just reminds me of Fallout 4 and Skyrim Special Edition’s Creation Club here. and … blegh…

Just by this what you said in the comment alone, i don’t think it’s a great replacement. If not for the concept of taking something that players created for free and turning them into a greedy practice, it’s still microtransactions.

[Doness-kargath (Doness)]

I really don’t understand why anyone would defend the store. This isn’t a free-to-play game, and Blizzard isn’t exactly strapped for cash.

[Nobully-blackrock (Nobully)]

@Baridorielor-malfurion

Can you point out this fact? Can you like explain it and not just say “oh it’s a fact” without explaining it? because just doing that isn’t convincing or helpful to anybody.

what do you mean “which fact”?

i already clarified.

Go read the threads you’ve been linking.

Not the title, but the responses.

You’ve got one person claiming “game is p2w”… with masses of people disagreeing with them.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

Do you at least understand the idea here i’m trying to convey to you in the last couple comments about 8.3 and it’s community saying that it’s BoE’s are pay to win? I gave you 4 links here, 6 in total, and yet your blatantly ignoring them.

you’re ignoring your own links, by not reading beyond the titles.

[Rollo-thunderhorn (Rollo)]

@Baridorielor-malfurion

Nobody said there being neglected.

From another poster earlier in this thread:

“It stinks because it’s obvious most effort is going towards store mounts and not in-game drop mounts.”

Yes, people do say these things. They say it almost every time there’s airing of the grievances about store mounts.

Maybe not everything I say is directly related to the things you say or believe.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

It’s obvious that the mounts (as well anything in this game) isn’t being neglected by the art team because it’s always gonna look great by them. But wouldn’t the mounts be much better if you can get them though ingame instead of just paying a bunch of money to get them? Why pay any money at all when you can play the game and work for them?

Why pay to play the game and risk not earning a shot at anything than pay a discounted price to play the game, doing whatever you want to occupy your time, and get mounts for free?

I don’t believe that a mount being in-game necessarily makes it more valuable than another mount. The mounts I use have to fit my vision for my characters. There are a few I had to really work on, like my ROFLcopter from BC which took weeks and weeks of grinding, and those mean something. There are hundreds of in-game mounts in my collection that I never use and probably never will. Those mounts don’t mean anything.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

You’re defending microtransactions by saying “oh, it’s a low price”…

No, I’m saying, “It’s FREE. I’m not buying tokens. I’m giving them zero extra dollars for this. You can, too, if you could swing paying for six months at once, which is probably less money than you were going to give them anyway. Instead of grousing about giving Blizzard more money through microtransactions, how about giving them less money total, while getting more free bang for your buck?”

That’s what I’m saying.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

You’re acting like the mount not being on the store is a bad thing here.

No, I’m acting like the mount now being inaccessible for years because players demanded it be taken off the store and put into the game is the bad thing here.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

I understand you’re saying here that time is limited and it is, but instead of microtransactions, wouldn’t it be better to have a bad luck protection system here then? Where everytime you don’t get something, you get in-game currency to take it over to a special vendor and get the mounts that way?

Yes, a bad luck protection system would be swell, but there’s isn’t one and Blizzard appears to be too stubborn to consider making one.

[Jarros-tichondrius]

as long as no player power is involved, idgaf

[Rogmarr-kelthuzad]

You can look through the OP’s post history and find your answer.

Spoiler : He is not genuinely defending the cash shop

[Baridorielor-malfurion (Baridorielor)]

@Nobully-blackrock

what do you mean “which fact”?

i already clarified.

Go read the threads you’ve been linking.

Not the title, but the responses.

Okay, hold on here. I was trying to educate on something you haven’t heard about before when i mentioned this side question here after i said that shops are part of MTX and MTX is part of gaming in general, and WoW is part of Gaming…

@Baridorielor-malfurion

As well Shops being part of microtransactions, because it needs a place to shop them in, and microtransactions are part of gaming in general. And WoW is part of gaming in general. So it’s relevant.

I mean did you just forget about BFA with it’s corruptions where people are saying that’s Pay to Win there with all the BoEs?

Then you said you never heard of it and then i give you links here, because i was hoping you would get the idea of the thing you never heard of. But for some reason, you think i’m proving a point that the game is pay to win or something because i gave links in order to better illustrate the thing to you. My stance is always real money shouldn’t enter into the equation when playing a game to get rewards and such. You shouldn’t have the ability to pay real life money to get gold.

@Nobully-blackrock

you’re ignoring your own links, by not reading beyond the titles.

I will cop to that mistake, because i was focused on trying to get you to understand that this did happened awhile ago back in BFA 8.3, and that’s what the community criticized about. And i thought you were talking about this thread here when you mention facts (which you still yet to point out even if you were talking about the links), so Mea Culpa.

A Cursory glance at the 6 links here, yes, their are responses that disagree with OP. Heck, i even commented on 4 of them.

_{Strange coincidence on how 4 out of 6 links i posted has me commenting on them. but i digress.}

Some have said that this sort of thing has existed for a long time. While it’s true, does it really make it better or excuse it that it existed for a long time?

I would make an comparison with Carries or Software Multiboxing into an example to better elaborate what i’m saying here, but then i’l get too long winded here.

[Nobully-blackrock (Nobully)]

@Baridorielor-malfurion

Then you said you never heard of it and then i give you links here, because i was hoping you would get the idea of the thing you never heard of.

i’ve heard of flat earthers too… but i’ve never seen anyone agree with their sentiments.

just because someone says something, doesn’t mean that what they say is legit.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

i was focused on trying to get you to understand that this did happened awhile ago back in BFA 8.3, and that’s what the community criticized about.

no, not “the community”… just a few people who felt the need to get loud about something.
“the community” (as in multiple various posters) all disagreed with the claims.

and anyway… you’ve got a massive amount of store items.
…so i’m not really sure i understand your stance on this whole thing.

[Twochainz-stormreaver (Twochainz)]

Not sure why you think I’m not defending the in-game shop. I like it and use it and think its genuinely a good thing for the game. My post got flagged for some odd reason. I guess if someone disagrees with you it’s considered “trolling” now. I simply wanted to add discussion how to improve the shop, what others would like to see in the future and how it could benefit charities, etc…

[Baridorielor-malfurion (Baridorielor)]

@Nobully-blackrock

no, not “the community”… just a few people who felt the need to get loud about something.

You’re dismissing what has happened as “just a few people”. You do realize that is like somebody writing off somebody as “complaining” and etc? It’s not refuting their points and just you trying to write them off because … why exactly?

@Nobully-blackrock

and anyway… you’ve got a massive amount of store items.

I will gladly admit that.

Before i was educated on the cosmetic microtransactions, i did bought them and honestly thought they were harmless because it’s cheap, they don’t effect the gameplay, and hey, they look cool. Heck, before WoW, i spent like a thousand of dollars on TF2 to buy hats and lootboxes (Which now i’ve regretted). I too used to be one of your fold, where i too shouted at the top of my lungs “it’s optional” for anybody who has a problem with it and think the microtransactions make a game better.

But as time goes on, as more video games have microtransactions in them, even single-player games, i started to educate myself with this, because i am actually curious on why people hate this stuff, and why more of this keeps popping up. And as time goes on, my eyes slowly begin to open and realize this isn’t a good practice at all purely on the fact it manipulated me into spending money on something that doesn’t have real world value because i care about my character looking nice and because cosmetics are once part of the game as the full package.

Now that i am educated on that, i’ve stopped buying the mounts and pets and all that purely on principle, because the mounts and so on, while they look good, i don’t want to support a terrible practice like i have done and regretted in the past. Didn’t even get them for free with the gold because honestly doing that still feels like i’m supporting a terrible practice and excusing them. Even if it’s just cosmetic.

So while you sit there, thinking it’s a gotcha moment for you, i think of this as a learning experience for not just myself, not for other people for might not be involved as we are, but for the other side as well. It’s the kind of thing that makes me care about other people here with this topic because i don’t want other people to go though what i’ve did. By all means, they should learn from my mistakes and be against and call out the people defending the microtransactions.