If you want #NoChanges means you want Retail. If you want #SomeChanges means you want Classic to succeed

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

@Deunan-atiesh

That is an answer that does not engage with anything I said and just gives you more of a platform to go off on tangents unrelated to having an actual conversation.

Nah, no tangent. Classic exists to experience the game as it was.

That’s actually really, really simple.

[Aedd-faerlina]

Trusting the current devs with any changes is just stupid but you do you. I’m out as soon as WotLK is over.

[Lilthica-arugal]

World of Warcraft is retail
World of Warcraft Classic is retail
It’s all retail

[Salak-azgalor]

By default it’s not no changes because it’s on the ICC patch at the start. unholy dk didn’t even exist in that way early in the xpac. armor pen was so strong there wasn’t competition for feral and fury during ulduar, and i’m sure theres more I forgot about. Classic is by definition changes, which wasn’t as bad pre wrath, but in wrath DK got a complete rework every content patch.

[Deunan-atiesh]

And leaving the game as it was leads to retail. So you want retail.

[Flamelink-zuljin]

Indeed.

Classic can’t just become a whole NEW game. It’s impossible.

But what classic can do is ADDRESS some painpoints of prev xpacs.
This includes, but not limited to:

• Content drought
• poor balancing
• improper raid tuning
• gated content
• late patch OOL changes
• gear acquisition
• legendary acquisition and RNG behind it (like it was in early Legion)

[Invincìble-westfall]

I do see where the NoChanges crowd is coming from though. SOME changes have been pretty bad or dumb.

I think the anti-boosting knockdown stuff in older content is kinda dumb. Let me run the instance for patterns or rep or mounts or whatever without having to watch how fast im killing stuff. If boosting was so bad, just make it so no xp is earned if high levels are in the group?

[Onecoldone-mankrik]

What changes are acceptable and which aren’t is subjective and the point of doing classic at all, was to “relive” the experience. I think it would have been better to have the 1st run of these original expansions in a “as it was then” release…but, that is just me.

[Onecoldone-mankrik]

Exactly, all versions of wow is “retail”…lol

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

@Deunan-atiesh

And leaving the game as it was leads to retail. So you want retail.

Nope. Want the game as it was back then. Aka: the point of Classic.

You know what #somechanges gets you? Mythic dungeons in Wrath. Transformed the dungeon experience into one much more similar to Retail.

[Invincìble-westfall]

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Mythic dungeons in Wrath.

They’re not really comparable. There’s no timer, they’re not hard, and they don’t reward BiS gear. Not at all like Mythic dungeons.

[Deunan-atiesh]

If nothing changes, we get retail.

If we are accepting, yet cautious, of potential new additions that path could change.

All WoW was once retail. You’re either fighting a forgone conclusion or raging against a potential branch away from retail.

#nochanges was never real, ever. Its a concept that doesn’t exist.

#somechanges is not unilaterally evil and is the reality of Wrath Classic currently.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Mythic dungeons in Wrath.

H+ aren’t mythic dungeons. the only similarity is surface level and is still a reach. Claiming they are the same is entirely incorrect and shows a lack of understanding of the mythic dungeon system as a whole.

I wont stop you from being mad just to be mad, but at least be aware of the no-win situation you have set up here for yourself and for blizzard.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

@Deunan-atiesh

If nothing changes, we get retail.

No, you get the game as it was. Which, again, was the point of Classic.

And like I said with #somechanges you get this Mythic dungeon crap, because all the Classic Team is capable of is borrowing from Retail and giving slightly changed versions of their systems.

[Deunan-atiesh]

@Zaalg-ashkandi

No, you get the game as it was. Which, again, was the point of Classic.

Which is still a direct path to retail. If nothing changes, nothing changes. We get retail. which you claim to not want to happen.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

And like I said with #somechanges you get this Mythic dungeon crap,

They aren’t mythic dungeons. Educate yourself on systems.

Honestly you just want to be mad at the game, you set yourself up to be able to shout about anything that happens.

RDF being removed? you supported and shouted down others then switched to wanting it included. Delmecius(sp) has the receipts.

Now any change is bad, because retail. However no changes also leads directly to retail design.
Pick a lane.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

@Deunan-atiesh

@Zaalg-ashkandi

No, you get the game as it was. Which, again, was the point of Classic.

Which is still a direct path to retail. If nothing changes, nothing changes. We get retail. which you claim to not want to happen.

Nah, you get the game as it was. Wrath Classic should emulate Wrath. So and and so forth.

Vanilla Classic was the version Blizz messed with the least, and it was the most popular. The more changes the Classic team has made, the less people play the game. Seems people want to play a Classic server to experience the game as it was, not a bunch of Retail type systems shoved into the old game. Wrath Classic is just a game for whales and bots. So what have those changes accomplished? Buy your gold and buy your gear with GDKPs. Really captures the original Wrath experience!

[Invincìble-westfall]

@Deunan-atiesh

They aren’t mythic dungeons. Educate yourself on systems.

He’s going to ignore anything that doesn’t fit in his argument. They all like to do that.

[Delimicus-benediction]

@Deunan-atiesh

Honestly you just want to be mad at the game, you set yourself up to be able to shout about anything that happens.

Zaalg has been trolling the forums for years, he doesn’t even play the game. He used to post about how much he disliked WoTLK and RDF and now he lies and pretends he always enjoyed WoTLK and RDF:

@Zaalg-mankrik

You can go back to the day this forum opened when I was posting on Mogar.

@Mogar-stormrage

Personally, no. I’m not a huge fan of TBC, and I like Wrath even less. But plenty of people want them, so good luck.

@Zaalg-mankrik

I loved the dungeons. The last year of Wrath after dungeon finder was added was the most fun I ever had in WoW, except perhaps Vanilla.

Here he is saying subs went up after RDF was added, and then in another post he implies that convenience systems like RDF led to subs deadlining and then plummeting:

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Subs went up after RDF was added, no matter how many times people try to lie and say the opposite.

@Zaalg-mankrik

People seem to forget that as these convenience systems were added, the sub numbers deadlined, growth stopped, and then plummeted.

Here he is talking favorably about the RDF polls:

@Zaalg-ashkandi

How about the polls with tens of thousands of votes that are all 70%+ pro-lfd too? Oh, those don’t count because they’re not official.

Only a troll would say the vast majority of players don’t want RDF.

Here he is saying the opposite:

Blizzard daily reminder that the VAST majority of players want LFD in WoTLK

LOL. These polls mean nothing. Look who you’re asking. It’s like going to a gun show and asking those people about harsher gun regulation. The results are going to be skewed.

Here he is saying RDF is terrible:

@Zaalg-mankrik

Connected realms? Are you referring to the cross-realm dungeon finder? Because that’s all that Wrath added in that regard. And there were cross-realm bgs since Vanilla.

I think both those additions were terrible, btw.

@Zaalg-mankrik

Originally the game kind of forced you to be social. You had to group up. You had to make friends. And Blizzard removed all that over the years. Starting really with the Dungeon Finder in Wrath.

and now he’s RDF’s biggest fan. Blizzard decided to listen to players like him and when he got what he wanted (RDF removed) he immediately took the opposite position. Likely the most successful troll to ever grace these fine forums.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

@Invincìble-westfall

He’s going to ignore anything that doesn’t fit in his argument. They all like to do that.

Howso? My argument is very simple: Classic exists to experience the game as it was. That’s…straight out of Blizzard’s mouth. Now, obviously they’ve since abandoned that after Vanilla Classic. But that was the original purpose.

Fifteen years from now if they get to Shadowlands Classic, it should be a faithful recreation of Shadowlands as it was back then. Who knows what Retail will look like at that point. But the worst thing they can do is take Retail systems 15 years from now and shove them into Shadowlands Classic. That defeats the purpose. Just like taking a Mythic Lite and shoving it into Wrath Classic defeats the purpose.

You guys act like Retail is some finish line. Like Classic is progressing, but Retail isn’t. It’s a game constantly changing and evolving and getting new expansions. Classic will never catch Retail.

[Deunan-atiesh]

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Vanilla Classic was the version Blizz messed with the least

Same faction BG’s were a huge change. Probably on par with adding H+ dungeons.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Nah, you get the game as it was.

and wrath as it was leads to more of these retail design choices you rage against. I don’t see how this natural progression escapes you.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

The more changes the Classic team has made, the less people play the game.

I believe that you believe this. If you want to show metrics or sourced data please do. I won’t hold my breath though.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Wrath Classic is just a game for whales and bots. So what have those changes accomplished? Buy your gold and buy your gear with GDKPs. Really captures the original Wrath experience!

And now we get into irrelevant opinions again. Kind of just solidifies my point that you don’t actually care about anything but being able to be upset online. Sounds exhausting.

Be better and have a nice day.

@Delimicus-benediction

Zaalg has been trolling the forums for years

Thank you for popping in. Sorry if I butchered the spelling of your name.

@Delimicus-benediction

Likely the most successful troll to ever grace these fine forums.

Weird way to spell “Bloomsday”

[Napolitus-defias-pillager]

They put in the WoW Token.

It’s already full retail.