Same faction bgs weren’t in Vanilla Classic.
As far as the rest of your post, the fact remains the same: Classic should strive to recapture the game as it was during a specific time. The changes Blizz have created a much more Retail experience than Wrath one.
Totally correct
to most people it does. Dungeons are being run more than they were prior to RDF in original WoW. The content is kept alive. Which increases player engagement which keeps the game from dying.
Once again, stagnation is bad.
Define retail.
Pay 2 win. Esports wannabe. Gameified the soul out of it. Linear zone progression. Raid logging simulator. Optimized for “payer engagement”. Vindictus hub game.
Thank you for your answer but my question was directed elsewhere.
The reason I ask is because the answers will differ from person to person. I am pointing out that claiming “retail design” essentially means nothing.
I’d change wannabe to washed up. They did have successful arena Esports during OG wrath and for a few years past as well. It’s just fallen off.
By players maybe, but not by any game design choice. All purchases besides the game and the sub are optional and not tied to player power.
No it doesn’t. Retail design is effectively turning a charming persistent open world with hidden secrets that you inhabit and explore and unique treasures to collect into an on rails linear level optimized gear treadmill where only the newest expansion zones are briefly relevant until LFD/LFR is all that remains.
I can’t recall the last time I’ve seen any anti-retail person point to any actual specific things to explain why they hate retail. It’s always extremely vague dismissals like “it’s retail therefor it’s bad”
There’s only so much time in a day, we’re not going to waste it explaining the obvious, and the forum probably doesn’t support 30 page essays.
See what I mean? Just vague dismissals, every time
Good lord lad, this was the most obvious “I don’t actually know why, but now I’m digging my head in the sand and screeching” done on these forums, ever.
I think you haven’t seriously looked at retail recently if that is what you think it is. I’m not the biggest fan of DF but it has exactly those things you are claiming it doesn’t. The on rails aspect has even been watered down since it was implemented into the game.
There are a thousand youtube videos and essays out there already? Why do we have to explain it over and over?
Wrong, we want to play the expansion as it was. If we wanted retail we would play it.
Wrong, you dont want the expansion as it was which is what the goal of classic is.
This isnt exactly a bad thing. Look at what Blizzard rushing actually brought.
It means we want to play the expansion as it was.
Too bad. Or advocate for a classic + server.
No they wouldnt.
No there wouldnt and that still isnt fixed so your #somechanges things didnt fix anything in that regards. Blizzard already attempted to fix this. Healing isnt fun and tanks usually attract a certain type of player.
Thats the playerbases fault, and there was before and sides were incredibly imbalanced.
Yes it would
What?
So?
Because of #somechanges
So?
We didnt have boosts. Bots also werent as rampant as they are now. While they still existed, the technology didnt exist that does now where you can run like 30 accounts from 1 machine.
No they wouldnt.
So? And most people would have just went on to the next raid tier like they did with #somechanges anyways.
Change for the sake of change is rarely good.
Then go play retail. We want to play Wrath, not Wrath+
And they are still better then than the new ones are that are incompetent. Thats why we dont want to play DF. We want to play Wrath.
So?
Star Trek TNG wants to say hello. They had tablets, cellphones where you just had to say their name, wireless communication across great distances even with video and the only thing out at that time was dial-up. I also dont use my phone that much and im only ever on the internet when im at home.
Yes, so why try to force those things that are bad into a game that people wanted to play. Just because you want to play something different doesnt mean you should ruin it for the rest of us that wanted as close to authentic as possible.
ask for #somechanges.
What does “Classic” mean? Cant really relive the classic when you change it, then its no longer the classic to relive.
It is marginally better than it used to be, but it’s not good enough, and it’s too little too late after 5 expansions going further and further into (awful) linear hand holding story with a gear treadmill that invalidates all of your current gear with power creep every patch territory.
The biggest problem with DF is that it’s not bloody WarCraft. It’s Pixar femboys and girl bosses crying about their feelings instead of big sweaty hairy fantasy men, sexy fantasy women and terrifying beasts and dragons beating the crap out of each other.
What changes were made in wotlk classic dungeons?
You are correct, that wotlk classic custom dungeon modes are not exactly mythic dungeons. They are vastly different. However, its undenyable, that the changes itself can be said to be inspired by mythic dungeons.
Whatever the case, the additional difficutly levels were not part of the original experience. Disregarding any related arguments, simply because its not exactly a retail system, is missing the point that Classic was said to be about authentic recreation and to relive the original experience. For players seeking this experience it does not matter if the changes are exactly retail features or only inspired by them.
Precisely. This is the path #somechanges has already taken Classic.
for some I doubt it ever will be…
At least there is a story presented that isn’t massively disjointed or told sparingly through raids. Imo they reached/are reaching a solid middle ground. Granted it did take a while.
This has been the design philosophy for the almost every MMO including WoW for decades. I understand it can be annoying but it isn’t retail exclusive design.
Important to note that the scaling isn’t identical. H+ have a very clear difficulty ceiling. Mythic scale much differently and much higher.
I understand your argument though, and appreciate the way you present it. I still however will politely disagree still, the similarities are surface level. Regardless of where the inspiration came from it seems to be a benefit more than an negative.
Explain how Retail is P2W. What can a player buy that is only available via the shop and directly effects player power? Feel free to never commit to any real stance and hand wave towards “retail” and GDKP’s. Please stick to design choices and not player driven models.
It doesn’t matter if it’s ONLY available through the shop or not. You can literally swipe and buy anything in the game that you want. Gear, boosts, carries, GDKP, whatever, mythic+ pumpers, whatever.
No. Not to this extent, and it’s certainly not universal. Old gear should be relevant well into a new expansion, and a new patch in an expansion certainly shouldn’t be invalidating gear from the same expansion.
Ill list some for you.
Dragonriding isnt new, it was almost 1 for 1 taken from GW2.
The story was gated behind rep grinds, not doing renown grinds again because Blizzard didnt have enough content and had to pace it out behind busy work.
Healing isnt fun across the board and the game is suffering because people just dont want to do it because its more like 2 roles in 1, gotta dps AND heal.
Memberberries - Oh look its Sindragosa! MEEMBER?! Now you can see her in human form… but its Sindragosa who was risen by the Lich King in the Wrath Cinematic… MEEEEEEMBER?!
There is no reason to really get into the story since characters are killed off as quickly as they are introduced.
Dungeons being easier than raids but give the same level of rewards. They also have to be easier since you have a limited number of people in the group. This also pushes homogenization so important things can be covered no matter the comp, and if homogenization doesnt happen then the content has to be balanced around the worst possible comp.
The art has gone downhill. Where even greens in Wrath have more detail than what is put into the current art. Sure the world might look good, but the drakes look flat, the gear looks generic and some you cant even tell what class its for.
Thats just off the top of my head.