News flash for all the Anti-Random Dungeon Finder Cross Realm gatekeepers

[Kubey-malganis]

@Gnàrr-grobbulus

It’s a time-lagged autoregression.

Dude they don’t know what a quarterly earnings report is, they are going to have to sound out autoregression.

You’re having a nuanced adult conversation with actual children. It’s going right over them.

These babies just want to complain until they get their RDF bottle. It’s not even worth the energy to engage.

[Largedavid-sulfuras]

@Raisin-pagle

Still waiting for you to link official Blizzard numbers on that one.

LOL poor Raisin. He’s so embarrassed he stopped posting, holy crap what a thread

[Bloodzlust-faerlina]

Just my 2 cents but I vote for RDF to be added. I’m done with arguing over it back and forth and why numbers on either side never actually show why people left.

[Heysenberg-grobbulus]

@Baalzebarbie-azuresong

and you are playing the 3.4.1 patch

We are playing 3.3.5 base adopted for modern retail engine with phased releases of content just like it was in Wrath. In Wrath we received RDF and title Patient with release of ICC content patch.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Heysenberg-grobbulus

@Baalzebarbie-azuresong

and you are playing the 3.4.1 patch

We are playing 3.3.5 base adopted for modern retail engine with phased releases of content just like it was in Wrath. In W rath we received RDF and title Patient with release of ICC content patch.

Correct and RDF is not content.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

@Gnàrr-grobbulus

That’s your argument. You are faced with data about how after RDF subs dropped, “Massively Singleplayer” became a coined term, and overall satisfaction plummeted.

Subs went up after RDF was added, no matter how many times people try to lie and say the opposite.

Also, massively single player? RDF is a tool that makes it easier to group with other players. It’s the opposite of a single player experience.

Man, anti-rdf posters are especially hilariously wrong today.

[Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Largedavid-sulfuras

Obviously a retail player as he only knows how to level in a dungeon.

You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. I play retail and I see more people out questing there than I do in classic.

[Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Kubey-malganis

RDF didn’t come out until the very end of WOTLK with the ICC patch

Rdf was in the game for 48% of wrath. 48% of the game is not the very end of wrath.

[Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Kubey-malganis

just because people played wrath in large numbers doesn’t mean it was good.

If you’re not using sub numbers as a standard what criterion do you use to determine if a video game is good?

[Largedavid-sulfuras]

@Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers

You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. I play retail and I see more people out questing there than I do in classic.

Then why are all these Retail player’s cringing so hard about not having their RDF?

Shouldn’t they all just shut up and quest, since its the norm? (fun fact its not)

[Largedavid-sulfuras]

@Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers

If you’re not using sub numbers as a standard what criterion do you use to determine if a video game is good?

Its a very nuanced and partially subjective answer you bafoon. You cant roll up the quality of something with one data point…

MANY PLAYER! GAME GUD!

MW2 made a billion dollars in 48 hours and is fraught with bugs and game breaking errors, yet millions are playing. Its a terrible game.

@Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers

criterion

Nice attempt at a “well rounded” vernacular I’m certain this will boost your credibility

[Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Largedavid-sulfuras

Then why are all these Retail player’s cringing so hard about not having their RDF?

Because they all play classic. Many of them only play classic. It’s only people who can’t read very well or think very clearly that think it’s retail players that want rdf in classic. It does confuse me when so many players have no problem with mercenary mode from WoD, or loot boxes from Cata, or heroic + from retail, or a new lfg tool from retail added to wrath, then claim that those who want the rdf from original wrath be in classic wrath are retail players. It always seems to me to be the stupidest thing any one has posted here.

[Kubey-malganis]

@Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers

players have no problem with mercenary mode from WoD

This isn’t in classic

[Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Largedavid-sulfuras

You cant roll up the quality of something with one data point

Ok, what are a few of the data points you’d use to determine whether a game is good if sub numbers are out as a data point?

@Largedavid-sulfuras

Nice attempt at a “well rounded” vernacular

Did I use a word not in your vocabulary? That isn’t at all surprising.

[Largedavid-sulfuras]

@Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers

Ok, what are a few of the data points you’d use to determine whether a game is good if sub numbers are out as a data point?

This isn’t specific to WoW but I will use WoW examples for sake of argument.

• Public Vs Private

  • Some of the best games ever are passion projects from private developers. Halo, WoW, Half-Life, Valheim. Built by gamers for gamer.
  • Most would go on to be purchased by public company’s and milked. Wrath was the first fully public company run Xpac - which was pumped by marketing, which drove player subs.

• Financial Structure

  • Single Purchase/Subscription/Cosmetic Transaction/Microtransaction
  • Wow started off singularly as a subscription mode. It later devolved into a model of Subs+Cosmetics+Miscotransactions. Wrath original was relatively contained with just Sub + Cosmetic, although you could argue that automated character xfer’s and name change charges are predatory.

• Customer Experience

  • Original wow had a robust system of in game GM’s, free authenticators & Customer service lines. Wrath started to cut costs under new management and gut some of those enjoyable features. Reduction in GM staff and closure of customer service lines despite growing player base.

• Development. Innovation vs Change for Change

  • In the early days WoW was constantly being updated, fixed, experimented, etc. Some of the changes and bug’s were frustrating but we knew the developers at the time were actual gamers so it progressively got better.
  • Wrath started to hit managerial red tape. The focus shifted from evolving a cool game to “manage the happiness of the sheep.” While we got a lot of amazing innovations like the Ulduar structure, that was quickly thrown in the trash for cheap “change for change” design which you see in ToC/ICC and retail of the same content multitier system.

• Competitive Scene

  • Wow shifted heavily into the E-sports market with TBC, which for a lot of players was the most fun Arena experience. It was new and innovative, despite having balancing issues. It welcomed PVP & PVE players, and offered rewards to help you excel in both.
  • Wrath did a terrible job at innovating/maintaining this, and almost felt like they abandoned it. 2v2 did not have rating, death knights were impossible to contain for the majority of the run, and the esports popularity somewhat fell off.
  • They are still attempting to update PVP, as you saw with the recent changes to boost engagement as it was so poorly designed.

• Foundation/Networking

  • This is where you would analyze the game based on things like server quality, population dispersity’s, game balancing, etc.
  • Wow started off with terrible networking/servers as it was a small company. But had a neat in server only mentality. TBC they did some changes to open up battlegrounds but still kept it contained within battlegroups.
  • Wrath further homogenized this by consolidating battle groups, focus on charging for xfers, opening up random dungeon finder.
  • This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, its more so a subjective preference, but they leaned heavily on the “pay us for a service” instead of handling for free on their end. A financial opportunity outside of subscription revenue.
  • RDF was originally implemented due to their own server mismanagement troubles in terms of population size. Most player’s were already well established so it was a system to help newer players to the game (gotta get those subs up!) to catch up, and get involved for the already in development (we need to sell xpacs!) Cataclysm.

• Market Size

  • Vanilla/TBC was a very niche game for a unique type of player. Computer games weren’t terribly popular and it attracted a smaller market of player’s, but the game was built for them.
  • Wrath saw the biggest boost in player size. While that is good for revenue, the needs and desires of players start to widen to a point where no one really gets what they want.
  • Features started to be added for the endless forum drones, If something was added for the original player base - the new players would complain. If something was changed for the new player base, the old players would complain.
  • It rapidly portioned to an unmanageable experience in terms of expectation that continues to today.
  • Dragonflgiht has been praised for its changes, BUT is not nearly as financially successful. LESS players but a better game (foreshadowing)

• STORY

  • This is entirely subjective as to what genre/story draws you in.
  • Wrath had a cool story and we finally got to kill arthas from the WC3 days.
  • Retail wow, in my opinion, has lost its story and they are ticky tacking on bad guys just to keep the lights on.
  • Same thing can be said for the story of the original 3 Halo’s vs the Modern day money grab Halo Infinite.

I am sure I could come up with more, but these are some primary metrics that come to mind.

[Castiturself-mankrik]

I look at it simply like this. If the battleground que is able to be put into play, then why not the RDF? There are to many times than not that I see people spamming the LFG and to no avail because “their gear score” Or people are wanting to see logs. And yes, this is for the Titan Rune Dungeons. In the beginning of Wrath Classic going live, I get it, I truly do. This would be the reason it was not introduced until later on into Wrath. I feel as though it has been quite long enough.

Now with Ulduar out and the Titan Rune Dungeons. This should simply be a must have. The LFG tool just does not work the way it was intended.

[Delimicus-benediction]

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Subs went up after RDF was added, no matter how many times people try to lie and say the opposite.

RDF wasn't "at the end of Wrath"

People seem to forget that as these convenience systems were added, the sub numbers deadlined, growth stopped, and then plummeted.

[Baalzebarbie-azuresong]

@Collete-old-blanchy

You HAVE to use it if it’s in the game and you know it. Stop spouting off lies to try and trick people into destroying WoW again. No one is going to drop their spot in queue to join your random group that may or may not find a tank, and they certainly don’t want to miss out on their RDF rewards and goodie bags.

Your post is like saying if you don’t like the pollution cars cause, just ride a horse to work. People expect you to use the most efficient option and will exclude you if you don’t.

PS: You’re the one trying to gatekeep everyone out of a good game by adding your RDF nonsense. Also retail has RDF, LFR, and solo queue dungeons/arena. All the solo queuecraft you could ever want.

If PVP is in the game I have to use it. Please remove PVP.

[Baalzebarbie-azuresong]

@Kubey-malganis

@Eldrion-pagle

I have never been asked by Blizzard what I want.

You do realize this is a re-release. You knew exactly what you were buying Mr “google the evidence”

If you want “player driven change” go play retail.

This is classic brother.

This is not classic. The patch we are on had LFD. This does not, making it something other than classic.

[Baalzebarbie-azuresong]

@Kubey-malganis

@Eldrion-pagle

emulator

What’s missing you want?

If you say RDF, wait for ICC like original.

you are playing in 3.4.1. RDF came out in 3.3.0. it should be in the game.