You realize for alliance ques to go higher it means more alliance are quing than horde were than before, ratio wise.
As an example let’s say for every one alliance that qued for AV 10 horde qued. This means alliance have fast ques. Now that que ratio goes to 1:5 this means the number of alliance quing for AV compared to horde was increased by 50%, resulting in longer que times for alliance and shorter ques for the horde.
This means when horde que times went from 2 hours to 5 minutes the ratio of alliance to horde went much, much closer to 1:1 than it was before and seeing as alliance now have longer ques than horde (last I checked) that means alliance que times got high because less HORDE were playing.
Even your basic logic of cause and effect it wrong… this change also makes it harder for alliance to premade because of the less likely chance of attempted premades will be in the same game as the que times suggest there is more alliance playing than horde now. Which make premading harder. It doesn’t effect joining a discord after the game starts though, but your logic is entirely emotion based and wrong…
Lastly we told you the que times have an impact on winrates. Your ignoring the higher alliance winrates being combined with non existant horde ques and saying it’s just because “alliance are better”… talk about egotistical idiocy. You still refuse to accept that very short que times attract the leacher players while very long que times prevent most of the leachers from even quing. But you just like to troll and can’t seem to do basic logic as your blinded by your bais feelings.
Haven’t played AV in awhile but now everyone is just riding past each other. There’s little / no PvP. People are queuing for hours on end just to waddle down AV over and over. Idk. Really sad.
This was what AV was going to end up being the moment Blizzard picked the 1.12 version. I said that the day they made that post. I had hundreds of posts back and forth with Ziryus who insisted zerg races are only a result of resources being added and wouldn’t exist in Classic.
I don’t say that to brag. A lot of us saw this coming. And those who didn’t (the most outspoken of which is still laughably posting in this thread) will never admit they were wrong.
Alliance win rates have nothing to do with horde que times.
So few alliance were joining AV that it became possible for alliance players to get together and join AV at the same time and end up in the same battleground. These premades started happening more frequently to the point they are preventing horde from getting any honor.
Horde stopped joining AV in mass when they stopped getting their easy auto wins and this is what drove the horde que times down. Alliance que times have not changed, maybe they went from 3 minutes up to 5 minutes, this is nothing to do with alliance winning.
AV has now turned into a zerg race because horde dont want to face premades, it has now come full circle like poeple said it would when horde were employing the “scorched earth” strategy.
these “premades” are the direct cause of horde que times.
First off I agree that the premades are a result of the horde queue times of 45 minutes or so.
As for the rest…
Alliance AV queue times went up to 20 minutes at night. I know this because I play both horde and alliance and I queued AV with my alliance at night. Two weeks ago I had up to 20-minute queues at night with my alliance. There were also 3x more AV games running than normal. As of today, the queue times are equal, but it is incorrect to say that alliance never had queue times. I will just assume you weren’t queuing at night therefore don’t know this and not that you were avoiding this fact intentionally.
AV weekend is the only reason ally queue times went back down at night since the alliance figured out horde would let them rush Drek. Otherwise premades would still be more frequent.
Having actually played a lot of games when AV came out I know for a fact that the way horde queues kept going up at the beginning is exactly why it wasn’t a base race the whole time. Horde queue times in Dec 19 started as instant. Horde base raced/got LTs and Bal mostly. Then the queues went up to 30 minutes with the AV premades still there. The higher the queues went, the harder we defended, as we knew a loss was bad HPH and this was the height of ranking. Everyone knew this, it was all over our battleground chat so I am certain of this. I was actually there playing horde so I can say that this is correct. If you were not then you don’t know.
As for right know I could see things staying with this rush meta. Prior to this horde was often getting instant queues for AB and WSG and ally was having up to 10-minute waits (this is documented on these forums) so for whatever reason there are more ally rankers than horde right now. I don’t think the ally queue times will go back up as the people who were playing for fun have mostly left since it is now just an honor/rep grind. Drek and Kek is no fun at all. So we have honor or rep grinding alliance and honor or rep grinding horde that doesn’t want to wreck a good thing. If horde queue times go back up though (doubtful based on what I said) the HPH will be better to defend again so it will go back to the same thing. I don’t think it will though but we’ll see.
I play both sides, ranked on both sides, and have friends on both sides.
Actually that’s the exact opposite of what is being said. Premading does not mean alliance is better, premades generally stomp pugs it has nothing to do with skill. Horde being willing to zerg now does not mean alliance are better, it just means they’re playing a meta where alliance will win more often(and where horde typically get more honor even when they lose). Which is what people have been saying this entire time.
Had horde been playing this meta the entire time their queue rates never would have gotten as high as they did nor would alliance have been able to start premading again in the first place.
Before alliance started premading again a few weeks ago alliance queue times were up to 7-8+ minutes. Not because there were too many alliance but because there were so few queuing that we were actually waiting for enough alliance to queue to even form a single game.
That’s the perfect condition for queue syncing to work under since the normal mechanism to break that, starting more than one game and splitting people up between them, no longer works.
And the catch 22 for horde is if they decide to stop playing drek or kek alliance will simply stop queuing again and we go right back to that situation. Basically horde can enjoy fast queue times and getting nearly as much honor for a loss as a win(even at a lower win rate) in fast games or they can have high queue times and create the perfect conditions for alliance to premade again.
Pro tip an earlier version of AV can also be zerged. There was nothing magically about the map that prevented that from happening.
Yep because on my battle group at least that was the case. Horde did not start playing scorched earth until reinforcements came out and games were not zergs but typically 30-45 minutes where both sides played mixed offense/defense.
Obviously classic did not play out that way. But there’s no reason to think an earlier version would play the same as people want remember either.
And the thing is I’d be perfectly fine with blizzard simply offering both versions so people could pick and choose. But when that was suggested in the original AV threads the supporters of an earlier version suddenly started getting upset for some reason.
They should probably have a version of Naxx where you can simply race to the bosses and get loot dumped on you. They can keep the same version of Naxx for those who want to work to earn the loot. Blizzard should offer both versions so people can pick and choose.
Did that version of Naxx exist in vanilla? Oh it didn’t?
So yeah when the idea of offering both versions is brought up you get nonsense answers like this. I get that AV had major changes over the course of vanilla(as the original versions weren’t very well liked) which is why simply offering more than one version would actually make sense.
The alliance didnt start premading and winning overnight. It was starting to trend this way as far back as 3 AV weekends ago if not a little longer. That coincides with horde queue times dropping from nearly 3 hours to under 2 (1:45ish). From there it snowballed until premades broke some kind of dam and horde queues went all the way back down to 5 minutes and reintroduced a race meta.
My own personal experience jives with this because I used to never win AV to winning a couple of AVs a week to winning a couple of AVs a day (off holiday mind you) before it all flipped on its head last AV weekend.
I’m saying both 1.11 and 1.5 AV were versions that existed in vanilla. Your mythical version of Naxx did not. Hence it is a faulty comparison.
It’s also faulty for other reasons, first Naxx has BiS loot, AV has a couple items that are very mediocre at best at this point. Second jumping straight to bosses in Naxx would still require doing the hardest part of Naxx, killing the bosses.
Not to mention AV 1.5 can in fact be zerged so if you are upset about people who just want loot you should be happy they would avoid AV 1.5 in favor of 1.12. Offering both versions would be the best chance to give you the prestine experience you want.
A better analogy would be offering 10/15 man dungeons in addition to 5/10 man dungeons. Of course there was a lot more involved there than just dungeons changes…
