1.12 AV is a huge, huge mistake

[Robfried-shadow-council]

Players: Weve been asking for original AV and vanilla wow servers for years.
Blizzard: Hey enough people have shown interest were gonna do classic servers
Players: We want it to be as close as possible and we still want the epic version of AV and we want more content patches instead if all at once also no loot trading.
Blizzard: were gonna give you an altered loot trading that most people can live with and more content patches but AV will be the modern version without reinforcements.
Players: Hey guys we want to show enough support for the older av so you change your mind on this like you’ve shown to open to.
Salty trolls: But it was in vanilla no changes!!! When I wanted a change you guys said no changes so I’m gonna a troll and say no changes reeeeereeeereee.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

Yeah, alright, everyone suffers while this guy goes to sleep and he thinks it’s cool. The lot of you begging for AV battles which drags on for days won’t even be participating because you’ll be sleeping or doing something IRL. But you think it’s “cool.”

This is what world PvP is for, man. Not AV.

https://web.archive.org/web/20041223182307/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battlegrounds.html

We tried very hard to create a battle experience that felt like Warcraft; we want you to feel like you are part of a larger conflict, with the potential for lots of strategy and tactics beyond a simple mob of players crashing into each other.

I never considered it content that required you to be involved in all the way from start to finish. Given how they envisioned things with that quote above, I would love to get back to that instead of the watered down version that moved away from that sentiment.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

I don’t understand.

Blizzard: Announces servers will be patch 1.12 years ago
Fans: Okay
Also Blizzard: AV will also be 1.12
Fans: OMFG WHAT THE HECK?! NO WAY

• We asked for the earlier version of AV since the nerfs began in vanilla.
• We asked for the earlier version in a variety of polls throughout the last 10+ years.
• We asked for the earlier version when we were encouraged to communicate to them what versions of vanilla elements we preferred.
• We asked for the earlier version when they said 1.12 would be the “foundation”.
• We are still asking for the earlier version since they dropped the news that they are going with 1.12 AV because the early version was “hard” and “gross”, in the hopes they change their stance and finally take notice of what we have been asking for for well over a decade.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

I never considered it content that required you to be involved in all the way from start to finish. Given how they envisioned things with that quote above, I would love to get back to that instead of the watered down version that moved away from that sentiment.

The problem is 1.5 really embodies this sentiment,

a simple mob of players crashing into each other.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

I never considered it content that required you to be involved in all the way from start to finish. Given how they envisioned things with that quote above, I would love to get back to that instead of the watered down version that moved away from that sentiment.

The problem is 1.5 really embodies this sentiment,

a simple mob of players crashing into each other.

Those of us who actually played it know that not to be true beyond the initial push.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

I never considered it content that required you to be involved in all the way from start to finish. Given how they envisioned things with that quote above, I would love to get back to that instead of the watered down version that moved away from that sentiment.

The problem is 1.5 really embodies this sentiment,

a simple mob of players crashing into each other.

Those of us who actually played it know that not to be true beyond the initial push.

And I could just as easily say that those who actually played 1.12 know that it’s not just a zerg and tactics and strategy are important.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

I never considered it content that required you to be involved in all the way from start to finish. Given how they envisioned things with that quote above, I would love to get back to that instead of the watered down version that moved away from that sentiment.

The problem is 1.5 really embodies this sentiment,

a simple mob of players crashing into each other.

Those of us who actually played it know that not to be true beyond the initial push.

And I could just as easily say that those who actually played 1.12 know that it’s not just a zerg and tactics and strategy are important.

Sure you could, but relative to 1.5 it was quite different.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

I never considered it content that required you to be involved in all the way from start to finish. Given how they envisioned things with that quote above, I would love to get back to that instead of the watered down version that moved away from that sentiment.

The problem is 1.5 really embodies this sentiment,

a simple mob of players crashing into each other.

Those of us who actually played it know that not to be true beyond the initial push.

And I could just as easily say that those who actually played 1.12 know that it’s not just a zerg and tactics and strategy are important.

Sure you could, but relative to 1.5 it was quite different.

This is true, 1.5 emphasized the pve aspect of the BG more.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

I never considered it content that required you to be involved in all the way from start to finish. Given how they envisioned things with that quote above, I would love to get back to that instead of the watered down version that moved away from that sentiment.

The problem is 1.5 really embodies this sentiment,

a simple mob of players crashing into each other.

Those of us who actually played it know that not to be true beyond the initial push.

And I could just as easily say that those who actually played 1.12 know that it’s not just a zerg and tactics and strategy are important.

Sure you could, but relative to 1.5 it was quite different.

This is true, 1.5 emphasized the pve aspect of the BG more.

Which resulted in more overall PVP compared to 1.12.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

I never considered it content that required you to be involved in all the way from start to finish. Given how they envisioned things with that quote above, I would love to get back to that instead of the watered down version that moved away from that sentiment.

The problem is 1.5 really embodies this sentiment,

a simple mob of players crashing into each other.

Those of us who actually played it know that not to be true beyond the initial push.

And I could just as easily say that those who actually played 1.12 know that it’s not just a zerg and tactics and strategy are important.

Sure you could, but relative to 1.5 it was quite different.

This is true, 1.5 emphasized the pve aspect of the BG more.

Which resulted in more overall PVP compared to 1.12.

Maybe per match, but that’s not saying much if you have matches lasting for days instead of hours.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

Maybe per match, but that’s not saying much if you have matches lasting for days instead of hours.

Per play session. Scroll up: I posit that playing from beginning to end complete was not the original vision of the BG. You were “part of a larger conflict”.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Maybe per match, but that’s not saying much if you have matches lasting for days instead of hours.

Per play session. Scroll up: I posit that playing from beginning to end complete was not the original vision of the BG. You were “part of a larger conflict”.

Per play session I got more pvp out of 1.12 as well, why? Because my primary opponent was the other faction not NPC’s.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

Maybe per match, but that’s not saying much if you have matches lasting for days instead of hours.

Per play session. Scroll up: I posit that playing from beginning to end complete was not the original vision of the BG. You were “part of a larger conflict”.

Per play session I got more pvp out of 1.12 as well, why? Because my primary opponent was the other faction not NPC’s.

The NPCs that otherwise would have prevented you from simply riding past the enemy players in the early version.

Sorry cupcake, but the suggestion that more PVP happened per session in 1.12 doesn’t hold water.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Maybe per match, but that’s not saying much if you have matches lasting for days instead of hours.

Per play session. Scroll up: I posit that playing from beginning to end complete was not the original vision of the BG. You were “part of a larger conflict”.

Per play session I got more pvp out of 1.12 as well, why? Because my primary opponent was the other faction not NPC’s.

The NPCs that otherwise would have prevented you from simply riding past the enemy players in the early version.

Sorry cupcake, but the suggestion that more PVP happened per session in 1.12 doesn’t hold water.

Except I could specifically choose to you know not ride past the other faction. The BG is a lot more fun when you don’t have to rely on NPC’s to enforce a specific play style.

If you were getting less pvp post 1.12 that was a you problem, suger cookie.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

Except I could specifically choose to you know not ride past the other faction.

I bet you could also propose that you could RP Walk from one end of the map to the other. Doubtful you would bet much “PVP” in as you stand in front of the enemy zerg to the point where your is pushed in.

If you were getting less pvp post 1.12 that was a you problem, suger cookie.

Sorry, sweatmeats, standing solo against a zerg is not “PVP”.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Except I could specifically choose to you know not ride past the other faction.

I bet you could also propose that you could RP Walk from one end of the map to the other. Doubtful you would bet much “PVP” in as you stand in front of the enemy zerg to the point where your is pushed in.

And why would you do that, weren’t you just glorifying tactics and strategy? Maybe use some and fight back effectively.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

Except I could specifically choose to you know not ride past the other faction.

I bet you could also propose that you could RP Walk from one end of the map to the other. Doubtful you would bet much “PVP” in as you stand in front of the enemy zerg to the point where your is pushed in.

And why would you do that, weren’t you just glorifying tactics and strategy? Maybe use some and fight back effectively.

We were talking about your claim that you would choose to not ride past the enemy faction.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Except I could specifically choose to you know not ride past the other faction.

I bet you could also propose that you could RP Walk from one end of the map to the other. Doubtful you would bet much “PVP” in as you stand in front of the enemy zerg to the point where your is pushed in.

And why would you do that, weren’t you just glorifying tactics and strategy? Maybe use some and fight back effectively.

We were talking about your claim that you would choose to not ride past the enemy faction.

That hardly means run straight into their rush but then that’s that whole using strategy and tactics thing I was talking about

[Snoxie-sargeras (Snoxie)]

I thought we were getting Classic WoW…

Nobody can honestly say “Classic” Alterac Valley is the 1.12 version. Classic AV is 1.5 or 1.8

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

I thought we were getting Classic WoW…

Nobody can honestly say “Classic” Alterac Valley is the 1.12 version. Classic AV is 1.5 or 1.8

That 1.12 is not authentic vanilla is not an uncommon opinion, it is however one not shared by blizzard.