Are the devs sure that the crafting order system is a success?

Community WoW Community Council
21

We really need a way to post a public crafting order with a minimum quality, and the ability to post recraft orders publicly with a quality as well.

This alone removes a good 90% of the use of the public system of crafting orders, and trade chat just isn’t a reliable source for finding people.

I went through I think 6 crafters today to find someone who could guarantee the boots I wanted to be 382. Everyone said they could, but then things came up like “Oh, I specialized in LEATHER boots.” or “Oh, I didn’t account for the missive,” etc. (I outright gave up on looking for a cloak crafter after a dozen or two the other week, but now I have the wrathion cloak so it’s replaced regardless, the point remains lol)

Trade Chat is not a fun place to be, and we shouldn’t have to rely on it for this system.

Please expand the order system to allow us to put a minimum quality on Public Orders, and allow us to post recrafting orders publicly (with a minimum quality as well) in 10.0.5/7.

I have engineering bracers that are stuck at 3 stars because I don’t want to try to find an engineer that is specced to be able to use gears, safety switches, and has a high enough skill to get 4-5 star, because it’d cost me 20-30k to recraft them, so if I recraft them and they don’t upgrade them to 4-5 stars, I’m out 20-30k for nothing. My engineering is at the point it’s 3-stars, but I can’t even try to get an inspired craft, because I don’t have the gears/safety switch training so if I recraft, the stat will be random and I will lose my safety switch.

5 Likes
22

Having to go into trade chat (which I’ve not had enabled for years), to find someone who can craft a silly gem for me perfectly shows how convoluted this system is. Just let me buy it off the dmn auction house.

I never thought that one day being able to buyout and receive the item instantly would be considered a luxury in modern games. Even if we were able to set up minimum crafting levels, I’d still have to wait for someone to actually pick up my work order, and all this for a gem that I’ll probably forget about the rest of the week or gets lost in the “open all” spam.

2 Likes
23

We really need a way to post a public crafting order with a minimum quality, and the ability to post recraft orders publicly with a quality as well.

Unfortunately this won’t solve the issue entirely but would help some parts. Right now you’re relying for a lot of higher end gear to be inspired to get the quality you want as well as the cost of items are absurd so you’re trying to find crafters who can inspire with R2 materials.

For instance, let’s say I could minimum quality a piece of gear on a public order. I set it to quality 5. Well right now no one is going to do because the amount of people who can 5 star a high end item are non existent. Even if I look at it from not crafting a 418 but a 405, do I spend rank 3 materials and spend upwards of 50-100k gold on a public order, or try to find someone who can make a 405 with R2 materials and save upwards of 80% on cost.

The issue with the system really boils down to cost. The wealth in WoW is inflated only at the top. Do I really need to spend $20 to get 2 items crafted? I think the system itself is very good. Right now the biggest issue is, skill levels are still low but cost are also too high.

I think it is awesome interacting with people to get stuff done and offering the gold I feel. My issue is, for smaller servers the system just well sucks. Public work orders won’t solve much, it may help very niche cases but until material cost go down this will not change.

1 Like
24

To add onto my post.

Crafting needs to be more visible within the game. There needs to be tuning done. The system has so much potential and we’re just sitting here because of the Holidays getting frustrated. I implore a tuning pass of crafting now that it’s hit such a large scale and don’t only take “numerical data” into account but server population, player behavior. There should have been tuning adjustments week 1 and we never got it.

Allow a single reset of knowledge or add into the game a way to reset your knowledge through a quest or a weekly or something. Eventually it may not matter, but this is too punishing. Crafting is supposed to be fun and I understand specializing in something, but c’mon lol.

5 Likes
25

One thing that also bothers me: If you see a public order you can only ignore the player and not whisper them directly for further questions (prefered rank etc).

2 Likes
26

Since this is the main crafting thread in CC right now, figured I’d ask this here:

Do we know when the Crafting Storyline Skip will be re-added?

For those unaware, they added a way to skip the entire Profession Intro Questline for Dragonflight, there’s even a wowhead article about it:

However, it was disabled almost a month ago on December 3rd, due to a bug.

Why is this still not fixed? As it stands, if you don’t do the main storyline on alts, we essentially have to jump through hoops to get this done, whereas it’s designed for us to be able to quickly skip through it on alts. It’s a big reason I haven’t touched my alts yet, because professions are scary enough as it is.

2 Likes
27

To speak a bit to the original question of this thread:

“Are the devs sure that the crafting order system is a success?”

The crafting order system is by no means perfect. There are many ways we would like to improve it over time. We have been having many of these discussions internally, as well as listening to feedback from all of you. Since this is such a new system though, we don’t want to make any snap-judgements and make big changes before giving things a chance to settle and seeing how it develops over time.

We do believe that the system has been successful in one of its core goal though - to enable crafters to make soulbound, useful gear for players at all levels of play. This elevates the overall value of professions within the game and helps to deliver on the fantasy of being a crafter creating valuables for yourself and others.

It has also been successful in providing a new way to for crafters and customers to interact, one which is inherently more social, and when you get to use it, hopefully more satisfying than previous ways to do so! But again, very much not perfect!

As far as the public order system goes, it seems to be working well as an easy way to get something crafted for yourself if you aren’t worried about getting the best quality and want it quickly. This was always its intent. We definitely wish that as crafters, it was easier to find public orders to fill. Unfortunately even though there are quite a few public orders going through the system, given the minimal effort it takes to fulfill a public order and the relative number of crafters around to fill those orders, there will almost never be many orders up an any given time with the way it currently works…they get filled too quickly and easily.

We are looking into ways to have more orders to fulfill though, because for most, we think it tends to be a pretty satisfying activity and a great way to earn skill and a bit of gold when you can find an order to fulfill.

We also think the guild / personal order side of things are working moderately well. These methods allow players to connect and get their items crafted with more control. There are several issues we would very much like to improve though, including:

  1. Helping better connect customers and crafters. There is nothing wrong with a bit of effort to get the best gear, or to attract customers. This is currently mostly accomplished through trade chat though, which while it does have a nice social component to it (something we love to see more of), it is by no means an ideal way to find a crafter for a specific item, or a customer to craft for.

  2. Helping better support interactions between players who are depending on inspiration to reach a higher quality level.

We suspect that as players finish getting their high end crafting gear and complete purchases of other one time uses for Artisan’s Mettle, players will be more willing to use Artisan’s Mettle to guarantee higher quality crafts. That will help, but even then, inspiration will always be a useful way to get max quality gear crafted. The crafting orders system is not supporting this as well as we would like it to, since as a customer, you cannot place an order and know exactly what you will get - you need to rely on a handshake deal that your crafter has the inspiration they promised when attempting to craft items for you.

In addition, there will be lots of other quality of life features we will be looking into to help making it smoother to use, easier to learn, and more.

As always, thank you for the feedback. We will continue working to improve professions in general and the crafting order system in specific! Meanwhile, happy gathering and crafting!

-Drough

33 Likes
28

Thanks for the update! This is very much appreciated :slight_smile:

Is it possible for you to elaborate on any specific changes you have in mind for the crafting system and profession leveling experience in particular?

1 Like
29

As a “customer” I don’t want to interact with the crafters. I am not looking to socialize with strangers, so for me this is a big failure whether it’s intended or not.

Fun fact: I can’t really use guild work orders because there’s no cross faction guilds and 95% of my “guild” is horde.

Again, I don’t want to have to enable trade chat or socialize with strangers. I just want to press the button and get the craft done with the best quality possible. I do not care for a crafting system that seems to mostly satisfy just people who enjoy crafting.

my wish list:

  • no forced socialization with strangers
  • cross faction guilds so I can actually use guild work orders
  • minimum level for public orders
  • a proper tree of required items that basically every game with crafting and tech trees has. It’s nearly impossible to find out what base materials I need to craft something
43 Likes
30

Really nice to hear some feed back on the system after a few weeks of playing around with it.

As someone who took an army of alts to Valdrakken specifically for the purposes of crafting, I’m still wondering on this topic from my thread on Professions: Professions & Crafting Orders Suggestions

Recipes come from all sorts of places in Dragonflight, levelling through professions, profession knowledge, renown, rare drops, etc. While the rare drops are a bit frustrating (still waiting for that Lariat recipe), its more-so frustrating on a small server like mine, as it was (I believe) about 8 days after the elemental storms before ANYONE on my server could craft it. Is there anything in the works to address issues like this?

I completely agree, it’s been cool to interact with people who can specialize in certain things. For example, I’ve become the resident weaponsmith for most of my guild and a few outside the guild. I like being able to help my guildmates in this way, and they’ve been able to return the favor in others. I will be really interested to see how you plan to update professions in future patches.

Yeah this is a big one. From the crafter’s side, it’s hard to tell what level you can guarantee / inspire on a craft without it being in the crafting order system. It would be nice if within the professions window we could add “theoretical crafts” (mats you don’t have, IE Primal Infusion) and see how it affects your skill level on a craft.

Overall I’ve been very pleased with the system so far. While a small server is a pain in some senses, it is also fun to log in each day and check my alts for crafting orders, to see if I get help a guildie, make some spare change, or level up a little more.

8 Likes
31

Hey Drough,

I appreciate the response. I hope the UI becomes much more friendly than a simple, easily-missed checkmark to show that an order came with mats. The amount of times I try to make profession equipment for people who say they’re attaching all mats and conveniently “forget” the mettle hoping I just don’t notice I’m using my own mettle and selling it vastly under market is way too high. Some are real accidents, especially on recrafts where it’s only 5 mettle, but it’s definitely not the same level of accident when it comes to 225-300 mettle on profession equipment. I have become keen on this now, but it’s still an annoying experience. I wish there was a way I could just toggle the ability to allow myself to even make orders that don’t have the mettle attached or something, or a confirmation window, or anything else besides a tiny checkmark on the order. Can we maybe add a red ‘x’ where the checkmark goes if the mat is missing? Something?

I also wish there was an easier way for buyers to add finishing reagents so I don’t have to tell them about Overcharged Overclockers or Brood Salts for the first time. They’re so cheap there’s no reason not to use them from a buyer’s perspective who wants more inspiration chance, and them having to manually trade it to me (or wait an hour in the mail) is not ideal. It would be ideal for a buyer to be able to add it, and have the Brood Salt/other item refunded if the crafter didn’t end up being able to use it in the order due to skill requirements.

I believe the rest of my qualms with the system have been addressed by your response here.

As an aside, I am enjoying the social aspect of crafting a lot more. There was a lot of Elemental Lariat drama on Tichondrius between competing crafters and I missed that sort of server-community interaction. It’s been great. Lots of entertainment from these social interactions that I love. I also disagree with the concept that there needs to be a way to get what you want w/o interacting with the crafter/buyer. I think professions need that to feel lively as a whole system.

6 Likes
32

Not everyone wants to interact with strangers, so it shouldn’t suddenly be forced on us to get things like BiS items or gems.

27 Likes
33

Just putting the second “M” in MMO

4 Likes
34

I think you might have chosen the wrong game

5 Likes
35

Yes, I play with a lot of people that aren’t strangers.

Because I hate negotiating, trading, and interacting with strangers, when I have a lot of people to play with already? I’ve managed find ever since I started playing WoW and the game never really forced me to interact with strangers this way. The new crafting system changed that and I hate it.

You can take your “witty” comments to the Discord :dracthyr_shrug:

24 Likes
36

It’s not witty, it is simply true. You interact with strangers like your guildies all the time, and you joined a social game and complain about social aspects? Please… dismiss it as witty if you want.

Also, you could just not engage with crafting at all? Why are you complaining about the addition of a system that only provides more than what you had before? Not engaging with crafting at all puts you at the same gear status quo as other expansions. Wanting the game to be tailored around your desire for lack of necessity for social interactions is harming my desire for a forced social experience just the same.

I digress. The forced social interaction on a server community level is a huge breath of fresh air in retail after seeing server-based communities revive themselves in Classic. I feel like I am playing on Tichondrius again, not just US-WoW. If there were a way to do this without interacting with the crafter/buyer at all, there is no social benefit here.

5 Likes
37

I should add I also think the points about xfaction guilds and other pain points have merit and those shouldn’t be as frustrating as they are.

3 Likes
38

Except this has always been an optional part of WoW. They’re forcing it and this blue post is just a giant post essentially of them covering their ears when it comes to feedback that we don’t want it forced on us and telling us they’re doubling down on forcing it on us.

And the fact Lina’s reply has more likes than the blue post should tell you that there’s more players than you think that think like Lina and me.

On top of that, I play with plenty of people - however, that doesn’t mean they cover the professions I need. A game can be multiplayer where you play with your friends, you know.

The crafting system is not a success. It takes 5 seconds to look at reddit, any WoW forum, hell, even trade chat, to tell you that. There’s many improvements that need to be made, specifically with public work orders, and the blue post specifically said they think public work orders are fine the way it is - which, to be blunt, is just not right.

We need a way to specify quality on public work orders, as well as post recrafting orders publicly, Period. They need to lean into the public work order system, not away from it like the blue post said they are. This would solve literally all of the problems with the system. Not everyone is in a guild, so leaning into guild work orders solves nothing. The CC alone (and if you want non-CC opinions, again, forums, reddit, etc. are all there with plenty of feedback) have said over and over we don’t want to have to enter Trade Chat to find a crafter for Personal Work Orders. (And as I said in an earlier post - this doesn’t work on dead servers, and on high population servers like me, I had to go through dozens of crafters claiming they could guarantee a quality only to find they couldn’t even attempt it due to augments to the recipe or such. It’s a horrible system.)

Lean into public work orders, not away from them.

When you can specify quality in a Public Work Order, and recrafting orders (with specified quality) can be posted publicly as well, guess what? More and more work orders will be posted, and the scarcity of work orders that the blue post talked about will go away.

They have a solution, they just refuse to do it, because they don’t want to listen to feedback and think their way is best.

The general consensus on pretty much every fansite is Blizzard is doing this so they can do it their way at first, despite being told it isn’t working, then can change it in 10.2 to say “See, we listen to feedback!” like they do every expansion. Instead of listening to feedback from the start, which is what they claim the CC was supposed to help them with.

26 Likes
39

While I did not see it at first, the problem with this is that you would never see a public order at less than top quality. There’s no point to it. And as we’ve learned, these crafting orders are often the only way to get the last levels in a profession, a first-craft bonus, and other necessary means for crafters.

Recrafting orders being able to specify makes sense. You’ve done the part with no interaction, now you have to know someone or find someone who is specialized enough to make it better. If you specify on public orders no one will ever be able to join the game.

4 Likes
40

As it stands right now, we can’t even post Recrafting Orders publicly at all. Which is one of the biggest problems with the system. We’re forced into Trade Chat.

I have engineering bracers I can’t use because I had bracers with slightly more ilvls drop. If I could find a recrafter that could use safety switches and gears (to specify a stat), I’d be able to specify 5-star minimum and it’d be an upgrade again. But I can’t find a crafter like that, it’s too many specifics required. This is why being able to post recrafting orders publicly would help.

And being able to specify would be required, because to recraft those bracers, I’m looking at around 18-20k in materials. Then you have to take into account any tip I might include. I can’t put that much money up multiple times because a crafter failed to get a 5 star.

There’s nothing really inherently wrong with this though, except for those recipes that exist that you can’t guarantee 5 stars. (though just make it so it doesnt allow you to specify 5 stars on those recipes) But even just allowing us to post recrafting orders publicly and specify a quality would be better than nothing. Because then at least if we dont get what we want from the initial public order, we can order a recraft at a specific quality. But we can’t do that right now, which is the biggest problem.

3 Likes