Feedback: Combat Approachability

World of Warcraft: Midnight is on the horizon and set to streamline the game for players of all skill levels, giving WoW a more approachable combat system for all. Class specializations are being revamped to make it easier to track key buffs and debuffs, reduce pressure to rely on addons, and make the path to mastering every specialization clearer. Midnight keeps the excitement of combat alive while opening the door to WoW wider for everyone.

Our plan for the first wave of Public Alpha is to rebuild all 40 specializations according to the the philosophies in our Developer Insight: Combat for Everyone in Midnight article. As always, Alpha will be level-locked over its duration, so you will not have access to most of the new Hero Talents and Apex Talents gained over the course of leveling until later in the testing phase. Specs are designed with the assumption that you have obtained all those talents, so please take that into consideration during your playtesting and feedback.

Your feedback on these changes is crucial to us, and we are looking forward to reading it. Here’s what we are hoping to learn from players from the alpha test:

  • How well do the changes meet the goals described? Each spec changelist in the patch notes contains an overview of the changes and goals for the new version.
  • Gameplay clarity pain points you’re still experiencing, such as information that’s important to playing the spec well, but is difficult to track.
  • Building characters for different types of content—do you feel you can get the tools you need for dungeons, delves, raids, and PvP?

We hope you’re excited for the new class changes in Midnight, and we’ll see you in Azeroth!

16 Likes

Experimenting with the Cooldown Manager from the perspective of using it with no addons as a replacement for class WAs showed a few UX concerns and places were important info was lacking, mostly around the Tracked Bars panel and buffs where duration is not very important, and more important information was either displayed VERY small and difficult to read, or not displayed at all.

Specifically the ones I noted were:

  • Improved Whirlwind (Fury Warrior): The Stacks matter most while the duration is almost entirely irrelevant. Especially as a tracked bar where not showing the icon hides the stack number as well. This would be much more useful if the bar displayed how many cleaving abilities you still have rather than how long you had to do them, and the icon showed the stacks as the major element rather than the duration.
  • Ignore Pain (Protection Warrior): Stacks are used to show a percent of the maximum size, but are a much smaller number that is not present if it is shown as a bar without an icon, ideally given how running out cuts the buff short, this info would be preserved and given more emphasis. Additionally it may be personal preference of the player to see the plain number value of health the shield will block rather than a percentage, which, given it is shown as stacks, lacks a “%” unit and may also be unclear to new players.
  • Ironfur (Guardian Druid): The tiny stack number is extremely well camouflaged into the black and gray icon colors and has no way of showing the duration of earlier stacks and when they will begin to expire. I imagine this issue will also exist on any other buff that does not renew itself.
  • Bone Shield (Blood Death Knight): The number of stacks in bone shield is a very important figure, but the duration is also important since it is disastrous if the buff is accidentally allowed to expire. Similar to Ignore Pain, right now the stacks and duration are given much different emphasis, especially as a tracked bar which may not show stacks. Since the number of stacks are also shown on the Marrowrend icon, this spreads out or duplicates information in a way that may be unclear to new players, especially if they expect the number on marrow rend to mean they can press it 12 times like it would for Death Grip or D&D in the same toolkit, not that they have 12 stacks of the buff it gives.
  • Blood Shield (Blood Death Knight): The duration of blood shield in combat is an almost useless stat to know in comparison to how large the shield currently is, which is not displayed at all by the cooldown manager. This is especially painful as the Player Frame, and Personal Resource Display do not show the size of shields overlapping the health bar either, meaning there is no way without addons or mousing over the buff to know how large the absorb is. I imagine this issue exists for all other instances of absorb shields as well.
  • Consecration (Protection Paladin): This one looks like development in progress, but it is unclear the tooltipless buff “protection paladin” in the cooldown manager changes itself to show the consecrate buff including the extra time from Sanctuary, while the Consecrate bar shows the duration of the last placed consecrate. Also if the buff version is moved to tracked bars, it shows as empty until you leave consecrate then counts down the 4 seconds given by Sanctuary. regardless, it doesn’t feel like a great way to communicate to the player that they accidentally left the faded edge of their consecrate hidden under mobs and other abilities, and have 4 seconds to reenter or lose the buff.

In the same vein of development in progress, the sound alerts lack “when” options for buff expiration (or near expiration, given how bad it is for a new BDK to accidentally let their bone shield charges expire), and reaching the maximum number of stacks/charges are the exact sort of major events that a player may want a sound alert to draw their attention to.

Outside of spec specifics, it is also worth mentioning that the cooldown manager currently lacks an ability to track non-class related things such as racial abilities, potions, trinkets, or externals like pain suppression, power infusion or bloodlust that would be important to know about.

10 Likes

Hello, my name is Warried I’m a multi R1 warrior and gladiator healer and I have compiled some of the most important UI features that have been suggested by the pvp community and that are needed for quality of life and still not available on Midnight Alpha.

  1. DR Tracking | This has been announced but we have yet to see a working version of this in the current alpha.
  2. Enemy Arena Frame customization | Currently there is absolutely zero customization for the new arena frames since their introduction. There needs to be scaling options for Trinket size, Buffs, Debuffs and CC on the target, this would be great for QOL.
  3. Interrupt Tracker | Consider adding this to the Arena frames right next to trinkets. For casters and healers this is a very important feature to track because the only way you can know if interrupts were used easily is by listening, and this puts deaf players at a huge disadvantage and needs to be a baseline UI addition.
  4. Party Frame Customization | Just like the Enemy Arena Frame customization section, the ability to change the scale of Buffs, Debuffs, and CC that is currently on the target is not in the baseline UI.
  5. Team CD Tracking | In Solo Arena content in WoW PvP, tracking teammate defensives is crucial for dps and especially healers. Consider adding an option to see your teammates Interrupt / Biggest Defensive like omniCD.

Thank you for taking the time to read.

10 Likes

Hello,

Building characters for different types of content—do you feel you can get the tools you need for dungeons, delves, raids, and PvP?

As Marksmanship hunter I feel I no longer have the necessary tools to function in PVP:

  • 3 sec Aimed shot cast time (loss of Streamline) → Impossible finish a cast in PVP. Players move away or CC you.
  • Lost 4 CC abilities: Scatter shot, Explosive trap, Tar trap root, Scare beast (now exclusive with regular Tar trap) while all other classes lost 0 or 1 CC ability. → Impossible to peel enemies so you can cast.
  • Lost Kill Zone (attack through walls) → This was one of the ways to finish a cast without getting CCed by the enemy team
  • Significantly reduced burst (due to the removal of Double tap and Improved Deathblow)

In summary - as Marksmanship hunter I lack the necessary tools to set up my damage, do burst and have a win condition, especially in arena.

Thank you

4 Likes

Feedback: Visual Clarity for Shadow’s Idols Capstone Talents

My feedback here concerns Shadow’s combat approachability. I mentioned this before in the Priest-specific thread, but for fear of it getting lost in my longer post, I’m re-posting it here as well, but with further explanation.

I am pretty visually impaired, and I rely heavily on large WeakAuras to track most of my procs and cooldowns. This brings me to my main point: visual feedback is lacking in our capstone talents. Making the Idols’ effects more noticeable would align with the current design philosophy and help choreograph important information in a meaningful way. It would create a clear, instantly recognizable cue whenever a capstone activates, which is something that feels especially important in a post-WeakAura WoW.

Some suggestions include placing a temporary icon above the target’s head or a noticeable icon on the target’s nameplate. Additionally, these procs currently cannot be tracked via the new cooldown manager, which underscores how inaccessible proc information for our capstones is. So it is my overall recommendation to have each idol trackable through the CD manager.

Idol of Y’Shaarj is the worst offender, as it has no obvious indicator to tell the player when it has procced. This capstone often goes completely unnoticed. Frankly, I would prefer a rework that focuses on empowering our Fiend/Bender pets or creating more interesting interactions with the rest of our kit, rather than just a “kiss/curse” haste proc. If a rework isn’t possible and we’re keeping the current version, then at least adding a clear visual cue would help, perhaps a small Sha manifesting above the player’s head, pulsing with rage.

Idol of N’Zoth is mostly fine but can sometimes go unnoticed. Adding a debuff icon visible on the target’s nameplate would make a big difference.

Idol of C’Thun generates Insanity over a duration, similar to Idol of N’Zoth, and is one of the less problematic capstones. The summoned tentacles usually make it clear when it procs, but having a corresponding debuff on the target’s nameplate would still improve clarity.

Idol of Yogg-Saron is the most visually distinct of the four. I rarely have trouble noticing when it procs, but if debuffs were added for the other idols, or if all idols could be tracked through the cooldown manager, it would help players stay informed about what’s happening mid-combat, which is always a positive.

Here are some suggestions for potential visual indicators that could spawn above the player’s head if further accessibility updates are planned:

  1. Y’Shaarj: A small Sha manifests, pulsing with rage.

  2. N’Zoth: A glowing yellow eye blinks open.

  3. Yogg-Saron: A gaping maw appears, echoing laughter.

  4. C’Thun: A writhing tentacle lashes upward toward the sky.

3 Likes

I am mostly in favor of the MM changes, with a couple major exceptions.
I think DR needs some work because you have removed all the things that actually buffed BA (new headshots is not good enough) and it doesnt really have the synergies around aimed that Sent has.
THE BIG ONE - 3 Second aimed shot feels HORRIBLE. It may hit like a truck but if feels like the whole flow of the game just has to stop for an eternity every time you are ready to hit that button, and that happens a lot since its the core of our rotation. It’s also way too long to deal with mechanics. wow just isn’t a game where you can sit still for that long any more, even with your new philosophy. Lets say there were NEVER any swirlies on the ground, its still going to feel terrible trying to cast it while the tank is running around picking up a big pull of dudes in a M+, or all those situations where you multishot to get up trick shots, then start casting and oh, dang, the mob you were targeting is dead, bad luck! (also, we all know there will be swirlies and fire we have to move out of, stuff we have to move into etc.)

PLEASE reduce the aimed cast time. Its just REALLY not fun on a target dummy, when soloing, and DEFINITELY in group content.

2 Likes

“approachability” is that what we are calling it?

it had more “approachability” when I could customise the ui how I like

13 Likes

Just for healers, I like most of the changes so far honestly for the ones I play (mistweaver/disc). However, the stated goal of combat approachability is at odds with current UI design. Given that we can no longer arrange buffs on frames, and how absolutely imperative it is to healer gameplay to be able to process a LOT of visual information very fast, you’ve ironically made things more difficult with the gutting of addons. Especially for those with bad eye sight or other impairments (even cognitive ones).

So how do we address that? I think the right answer is if the UI is going to stay this poor for healers (and it might need to, for health of the game/combat) is probably to start relying a LOT less on buffs/hots/atonements or similar mechanics. Have those things either go away, or become part of natural healer rotations similar to how DPS function. Maybe hitting your heals in the right sequence drops out the small buffs that you would normally be applying to a lot of people. Failing that, perhaps they have charges so there’s an upper bound to how often you’re doing it.

Some of the examples I can come up with off the top of my head from past include things like Ancient Teachings (good) vs manual atonement application (bad). Disc really shouldn’t be playing a massive UI minigame just to heal a big mechanic 10+ gcds in advance. It does not make them approachable, or anything resembling enjoyable for me personally in a raid to the point I actively avoid Disc in raid. Hot gameplay on the druid is/was pretty similar. Wild Growth is great, but manually dropping a whole ton of rejuvs out with a long ramp sequence isn’t making them approachable. Efflo is a neat hot too. The hots, when they have no cooldown, tend to be rather watered down on top of it and nobody likes hitting a button that does almost nothing by itself.

Ramp gameplay on healers is inherently not approachable because it requires a lot of preplanning, timing, and outside of game homework. I’ve done it for a long time, and frankly I enjoyed it but it is a massive barrier to entry and one I think turns people off of several healers. You did at least try to make some of the longer ramps shorter, and I think that part is great, but I don’t think it’s quite enough yet.

2 Likes

Can we add the ability to track our own debuffs and buffs on the hotkey to use such abilities? On live as a feral druid i have my rake debuff duration as a small progress bar on my rake ability, and the same for rip, moonfire, thrash etc. Aswell as a small line to denote the 30% remaining so its safe to reapply. It is also nice to have on my defensives on all classes to see on my shieldwall/barkskin exactly how much duration is right on the button.

4 Likes

I started testing the highlight assist on Arms –

  • There is a talent that applies Sweeping Strikes when you use Colossus Smash, and I noticed that the highlight assist is suggesting that you use Sweeping Strikes before using Colossus Smash – which is kinda pointless if you have that talent.
  • The highlighting also just randomly stops working sometimes which is a bit annoying.

It’d be really nice if you could have a UI element that shows the next 2-3 abilities it’s going to suggest and what their keybinds are – kind of like how Hekili currently works.

Personally – that would help me avoid staring down at my action bar – Then I can move the UI element that isn’t as big as my action bar higher up into a place where I can see the icon in my peripheral without using too much screen space.

3 Likes

Yeah MM hunter is just a PvE spec now, sorry.
Guess this is the price they pay for being too good.

Idk who thought a 3 second cast in PvP would work. Like at all.
Fire Mages have Greater Pyroblast which is a PvP talent with a 4 second cast time, and now that we’ve lost mobility and a lot of our CC, I just don’t ever see being able to cast this.

Getting really annoyed with class changes just never taking PvP into account.

1 Like

I’ve been using the cooldown manager to track my dots on various classes and it would really go a long way to have the low duration animation begin playing at the start of the pandemic window. It seems like atm it just plays at around 3-4 seconds of duration left which is usually too late to reapply a lot of things.

2 Likes

This comment is based on the Midnight beta build as of Nov 13.

Two small aspects of the Midnight UI have jumped out at me so far as making combat far less approachable, one more than the other.

Before I dig into the details, the general gist of the problem is that, for me, associating written words with things (like mechanics) is just incredibly challenging, especially when the thing is not exactly the literal meaning of the words. I’m much better at associating things with numbers, colors, shapes, icons etc. And this quirk of how my brain works has an unfortunate interaction with certain changes in Midnight. I’ve found workarounds that I’ll discuss. I’ll also discuss some potential design solutions that, to me, would be clear improvements without revealing data that would enable computational weak aura-like UI elements.

I’ll use dungeon boss boss mod timers as the first of two examples. I haven’t yet memorized the mechanics for these new dungeons yet, but even when get to that point, there’s this separate challenge of guessing which spell name goes with which mechanic when I’m reading my boss mod timers. I do have a solution that blizzard provides directly in their UI: the boss mod displayed as a timeline with visually distinct icons. I can glance at those and get something visually that I can associate with a mechanic. That’s great. That said, I’d prefer to use the old timer based display and have the timer bars either inherit color from the icons or have an option for us to color code them.

Technical note - I understand on the technical side the client can’t have non-secret spell ids, so the color coding would need to be server side. Custom color coding would still be possible if the server allowed the client to send a list of colors for the spell ids, similar to how they’ve announced they’re going to implement a way for the client choose which mechanics get sent to show while protecting the secrets from boss mods.

For a second and more frustrating example, NPC IDs are secret which means we can’t add visual distinctions for different mob nameplates in beta. This means when we pull a couple packs in a dungeon, I have to read nameplates to find the caster I want to focus for kicks and to find the priority target I want to burn. And even that also requires me to know what they’re actually called and mentally filter out the flavortext in their names. For me, that’s incredibly unpleasant. Similar to boss mobs, I do already have a workaround, although this one is more janky. The workaround I’m planning to use to avoid this is to have 16 macros per dungeon season: 1 priority target and 1 priority focus macro times 8 dungeons, where those macros have a list of priority focus and dps targets for the key. It’s similar to have I have for the odd totem that spawns in keys today, but pumped up to 11. And it’s fine I guess, but honestly not fun to need to do all that prep for a janky workaround to something I used to use colored nameplates to show visually. Similar to boss mods, I think the preferable answer is to allow the client to send colors associated with npc ids and then return colored nameplates inside the secret to preserve the secret of npc id.

I do want to note that I can see an argument here that’s there’s some skill expression in learning mechanic and npc names and associating them with what they do. It’s a preparation type of advantage that a player cannot outsource to an addon author in Midnight. That’s a legit argument. For me, with how my brain works, it’s a skill I don’t have. And I can already see that on beta. To be honest, I already knew about that shortcoming when it took me about a year longer than other kids to learn how to read. And it still happens at work today when I have trouble learning some technical jargon and pick it up slower than colleagues.

More importantly though for the game design about where the fun of the game in wow combat comes from. For me, memorizing what the mechanics are and what to target and what to kick is the homework part of wow that I do to get to the fun part. The fun part is learning how to execute when you already know all of that stuff and, in the moment in combat, you have this clarity about what’s happening and what you need to do, and yet it’s still hard to execute. It might be hard To execute because there’s a lot happening in your rotation or because there are mechanics to dodge or interrupt or soak etc, or, in midnight, because there is a coordination puzzle to solve in the fly and a weak aura can’t help you do it. All of that is great and is where I get my passion for the game. Associating spells and npc names, and reading them in combat, is not part of what I enjoy. To me it’s homework. And these particular changes make combat a lot less approachable for me.

To be really succinct, my view is the UI should show the combat state as clearly as possible while (under the Midnight framework) making as few decisions as possible for you. It’s a tough balance to strike in places. In my view, knowing which mobs are in the pack at a glance and knowing what mechanics you’re facing at a glance are clearly about knowing the state, not solving it.

PS: unsecreting unit player and unit pet cast information seems bananas to me in the context of the design intention around the Midnight UI. That exposes a lot of information to addons that I really think would need to be secret to avoid rotation related computational weak auras-esque functionality.

3 Likes

I think a huge thing for approachability would be making sure the base UI can track all buffs and effects you need to know about. For instance, Frost’s Freezing stacks aren’t tracked, and that makes it harder to play the spec when you have no idea what one of your “resources” is at. I believe I’ve been seeing a couple other specs have similar missing things too.

Edit: I forgot to specify which class… Frost Mage was the one I referenced.

3 Likes

Would be great if the tracked buffs were to dynamically shift/ move in position as they are active. So there position on the screen stays constant.

1 Like

The spec rework at least for mage absolutely DOES NOT meet the stated goal of simplifying rotations and making it so fewer things need to be tracked.

For frost mage specifically, the visual/cognitive load feels substantially increased now that we’re following freezing stacks (essentially combo points back on target instead of on player like the “good ole days /s”).

The spec needs to be completely reverted to its TWW state and start from the bottom by simply removing the hero talents that force us to track buffs and rebuffs. Do the same for arcane too.

Fire is just a bit too far gone whether it’s in TWW or Midnight. It’s two completely opposite extremes of way too much complexity now to classic wow levels of simplification. People have given a ton of feedback already but I know how you guys like to listen to feedback (/s).

The UI changes and add-on implementation seems like a great task that you clearly did not get enough to really get right before expansion launch. I look forward to it be usable by 12.2.

1 Like

The feral talent Hunger for Battle really bothers me.

It seems like it’s designed to be a passive leveling talent that you just never think about. Or maybe it’s an M+ aoe talent.

But a 25% damage increase is too large to ignore in any situation IMO.

You could possibly really optimize the use of this buff by, for example, killing 5 things at the same time and then zerk/convoke. Or sit on an apex predator charge and 5cp and get 2 fb/ravages inside the buff window. Or just frenzy/fb.

When I think about all the silly ways you could optimize GENERATING the buff, it gets even worse. I’m thinking about dragging around a pile of low hp mobs for when you need burst.

Maybe this is all a little outlandish, but I think this talent really encourages stuff like this, and it’s NOT approachable.

Edit: at least it doesn’t snapshot. That would be much worse.

1 Like

Concerns:

  • None of the specs I have played feel as though they have been so dramatically simplified that I wouldn’t still want an addon like Hekili offering suggestions, that weren’t already specs I could play comfortably without it.
  • The UI is very cluttered if you run the Cooldown Manager and standard action bars.
    • It would be very nice if the Highlight Assist would display on the cooldown manager, along with the keybinding for those skills. That way you can just hide most of your action bars except things you click on.

I’ve put a most of my time on the beta into assassination, feral, ret, and fury… and all of those specs have problems on retail (Ret not so much – I feel like Ret was in a pretty fantastic spot.)

I don’t feel like any of these specs feel better to play now… no changes have been made that justify killing my UI. And I’m all for killing my UI… but now that I’ve put some time in, I don’t think any problems I cared about were solved… if that makes any sense.

I still have energy issues on Assassination and Feral, which ruins the way they feel to play. Assassination actually feels more complicated to play now than it did before imo with how important Deathstalker’s Mark is, the pace of the game, and trying to pool energy. I still am doing finger jutsu on Fury, and it still feels super weak outside it’s cooldown window.. and I now have another buff to watch because of the apex talents. Ret actually just feels worse because I actually had to add a button to my rotation lol.

I dunno. Maybe I’m just bad. I’m just the absolute worst player on this earth and all of the problems I’m seeing are not issues for anyone else and I should just be playing Stardew Valley or whatever all the other old people do when they can’t keep up anymore.

I just don’t think the ideology being advertised from Ion is being delivered, and I was pretty excited about it.

We’re changing a lot, not accomplishing anything in the process, and giving up a lot for it. It’s like the people making changes are not playing the same game I am.

11 Likes

this is spot on

6 Likes

Nope if anything you overestimate the people who can make sense of this. One button rotation is already too strong in my opinion. It beats like 70% or more of players.

So you are in the top 30% at least if you beat that. Yet you can’t play the game like this. I parse like top 5-10% on raid logs for normal and I can’t figure this out either. I was on the PvP leaderboard front page at start of season 3. I think it was top 30, and I don’t know most other specs. So I was being carried by knowledge of my own.

If you and me are stuck, the actual average player will never figure this mess out.

3 Likes