Feedback: Monks

[Linxy]

This thread is dedicated to leaving feedback on Monks in Midnight. Look in this thread and in the Midnight Alpha Development Notes for adjustments and bugfixes made throughout the testing period.

Please note that off-topic or inappropriate posts will be strictly removed.

Apex Talents

Many Apex Talents are available for playtesting and may be selected using specialization tree points in the final specialization tree node. The current User interface (UI) is temporary for playtesting purposes and will be replaced with a final UI later in development. As with any test cycle, we will be adding more Apex Talents to the test over time and not all will be available with the start of the alpha test.

To help us refine Apex Talents, please consider the following questions as you playtest:

• How gameplay-impacting, exciting, and fantasy forward is your Apex Talent to you?
• Are your Apex Talents and new Hero Talents meeting the approachability goals laid out in our Combat for Everyone in Midnight article?
• Are there cases you would consider not selecting your Apex talent?
• Does the Apex talent disproportionally favor a particular talent build or Hero Talent tree?

For feedback regarding the changes on making the combat system more approachable for players of all skill levels, leave your feedback in the Combat Approachability feedback thread.

Thank You

We greatly appreciate all your feedback and are very excited for you to test out all the changes in Midnight!

[Linxy]

Brewmaster

Brewmaster’s kit contains a number of very niche cooldowns and abilities, as well as a number of talents which have a highly-transformative impact on gameplay. In aggregate these can cause the specialization to be difficult to learn, especially in combination with developing intuition surrounding Stagger. We are aiming to broaden some of these niches while narrowing the impact of transformational talents. In addition, some abilities have been removed in order to better concentrate both power and gameplay focus on a more manageable core. Finally, many tooltips have been adjusted to improve clarity on their function or how they are expected to impact play.

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Mistweaver

Mistweaver’s Midnight updates are focused on simplifying moment to moment decision making/tracking and streamlining their cooldown moments. We’re also removing Jadefire Stomp’s positional gameplay as we felt this did not match our combat approachability goals. Way of the Crane and Way of the Serpent is a new choice node worth highlighting as well, which is something new we’re trying to highlight different aspects of Mistweaver’s toolkit in particular, based on a player’s preferred playstyle. Our hope is that both options have relevant situations in which they are useful and therefore encourage solid build diversity between content and also a player’s individual preferences.

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Windwalker

Windwalker Monk’s Midnight updates primarily focus on removing conditional modifiers and making sure the base damage of spells feels impactful. Critical strikes will be the main way their damage changes values and otherwise each spell will remain largely consistent between in and out of cooldowns. Our goal is that this will reduce the rotational overhead and allow more focus on procs, resource management, and Mastery: Combo Strikes to drive gameplay.

[Yuufi-moon-guard]

There’s too much pruning of active spells. While I’m largely for the pruning of the random damage amp modifiers from things like Gale Force or Acclimation, losing very fun talents like Last Emperor’s Capacitor and the ability to have both Whirling Dragon Punch AND Strike of the Windlord makes the spec feel much more hollow.

I REALLY hope we see a return of Capacitor especially, as well as the ability to pick up both SotW and WDP again.

[Mickey-eitrigg (Mickey)]

I’m worried about the direction of Windwalker after going over all the changes, sleeping on it a bit, and testing on alpha. There’s some good changes in here, including some clean up, some of the hero spec reworks, and a couple of the new talents, but there’s 2 steps back for every step forward here. Overall, Weapons of Order and our cooldowns in general feel lacking, Tigereye Brew is an unexciting apex talent, our spec tree is pretty messy right now, and there’s some things staying that don’t feel like they should still be here while some other well enjoyed talents have met an untimely end. I wrote an extremely long stream of consciousness of my thoughts that I’ll put below, but here’s the key points:

• Weapons of Order feels like a neutered version of existing cooldowns and lacks a convincing fantasy tie. Xuen also losing Invoker’s Delight makes our cooldowns feel very flat in general, even with:
• Tigereye Brew, which is a pretty unexciting letdown of an “Apex Talent”. It just beefs up our cooldown into something a little more passable, but is otherwise uninteresting and uninteractive; it’s passive damage with no visual flair to make up for it.
• Shado-Pan got some good changes like passive Shadow Flurry, flat Against All Odds agility, and proccing off Fists of Fury, though keeping the energy spending aspect of the current tier set sends confusing messaging. Flurry Strikes remaining capped continues to hold this spec back as a whole, and adding a random passive pet as the capstone talent is a huge misstep.
• Conduit being forced into picking Slicing Winds is a HUGE mistake, one that is hopefully just the precursor to a choice node. Combining the button with Xuen is a minor annoyance, but not the end of the world. Making Strength of the Black Ox a real impactful proc could go either way.
• Our other procs in general are in a weird spot, especially Combo Breaker having so many synergies but lacking anything that does compelling damage. Not costing Chi alone is not an enticing reward with how ample resources are right now.
• Other talents are a mixed bag. There are some cool new ones that maybe still need a little iteration like Skyfire Heel or Crashing Fists, but also a bunch of awkward experiments that I hope don’t make it out of alpha without major changes or at all, like Rushing Wind Kick or Stormspirit Strikes. The layout of the tree is also a bit of a mess at the moment, with more “talent point tax” nodes than I’d like.
• Making Strike of the Windlord and Whirling Dragon Punch a choice node is a real bummer and feels like a step too far, though I’d be shocked if this changes.
• Dropping the Crackling Jade Lightning talents while keeping Slicing Winds and Jadefire Fists is the most baffling change of all and the thing I hope gets revisited the most.

Here's the full stream of consciousness with a lot more detail on each point:

Cleaning up damage amps is fine, as I remembered during TWW alpha being kind of confused when so many minor ones were added, though you missed Fatal Touch in the class tree. However, this feels like it goes too far when it extends to our main damage cooldown having 0 damage amp. That is going to feel very flat and unexciting, and more crit in that window does not make up for it (a direction with which I have other concerns too). Especially for more casual players trying to get into the spec, it’ll be difficult to take full advantage of the Ordered Elements effect that has become our entire main cooldown somehow, and no damage boost at all in that window will be rough.

While we’re on Weapons of Order, I am extremely unsold on the fantasy of this spell, as I have been since Shadowlands. What even is “Weapons of Order” supposed to represent to a mystical martial artist? The new visuals are actually very nice for this spell, but I am really stuck on the name and icon feeling super unflavorful for a major cooldown. I’d love to see this renamed to something more thematic or core to the spec, even if it literally just got Serenity’s name and icon (the effect isn’t even that far off from old Serenity now!).

There is one extra component to WoO that’s not just “literally Ordered Elements”, and that’s Tigereye Brew, the new “apex” talent. Honestly, I’m super disappointed with this talent overall. For one thing, it’s basically just the second half that turns our major cooldown into potentially something worthwhile with its bonus crit chance. I do already worry about running into crit caps, especially on Rising Sun Kick, which even with template gear at 80 on alpha I can nearly guarantee crits on. For another though, I just think TEB is super boring as an effect. It’s “your cooldown does a little more” and a couple other little passive damage bonuses, that’s it. I don’t even think passive damage or stat boosts are bad, but when I went to test Destruction and saw their apex talent in comparison, I was blown away by how much cooler it felt and looked despite being a relatively minor effect. It made me lament that we aren’t getting anything nearly on that level of excitement! This is a brand new series of talents that’s the focus of the expansion and leveling experience, it should be something inspirational and exciting! It’s just really not anything I’m looking forward to getting other than out of necessity since I am sure it will be mandatory damage wise, and that bums me out. Sure, it has the name brand pandering for the people who liked when TEB was our active major cooldown back in the day, but it lacks the flexible spending component that was the reason for most of that like anyway (and I’m not one of those people at all and am glad we didn’t get that version anyway). Also, since the thread starter asks, I think it will feel much stronger synergistically with Conduit than Shado-Pan. It’s got a hasted recharge time, which every HotJS window will contribute to, and Weapons of Order as a whole sort of runs counter to Shado-Pan’s energy spending (assuming that the talent in the notes, Weapons of the Wall, actually makes it in, since it doesn’t line up with the rework).

The Shado-Pan “rework”: it’s a solid start, but it has some issues! Swapping to discharging on Fists of Fury is a great way to simplify our more passive tree to not completely alter your playstyle like it does on live right now. The rework to Shadow Flurry being a general passive is also great and avoids some unpleasant rolls from the live version of Wisdom of the Wall. Against All Odds being a flat amount is also a welcome simplification. Stand Ready is a solid effect that works well in the current tier and makes it feels a little burstier when you hit your cooldown. However, Weapons of the Wall is confusing - is this placeholder, maybe? Returning to the energy spending style, but only during WoO, is a strange contrast to the rest of this rework. Flurry charge generation buffs are also all still totally useless, since flurry Strikes remains capped at 10 stacks, which is extremely easy to hit. I was really hoping this rework would uncap that, so it’d really become more about generating lots of stacks between FoF casts (though it’d still need a reason for you to care how many stacks you hit). Maybe that could be a new capstone for this tree, because I really hope the Shado-Pan Veteran does not make it to live! One of the biggest points of positive reception to all of our changes is getting rid of reliance of pet AI with Storm, Earth, and Fire. PLEASE do not make us rely on it once again by introducing another NPC pet to passive damage our enemies! It does somewhat fit the fantasy of Shado-Pan as an order of warriors, but personally at least, I really hate the assistance and would rather receive a buff to myself of some kind, maybe based on how many stacks I just discharged!

On to Conduit. First up, Conduit replacing Xuen when cast - I get the intent here to free up keybinds, especially for newer players who may be intimated by the number we have. However, I think this works both against more casual play and minmax content. I will preface this by saying all of the following is minor/nitpicking and it’s not a huge deal either way, but I do prefer to keep them split. In open world content, it’s very rare that I want to actually pop all of my cooldowns together, as the content just doesn’t require that. I like having the flexibility of hitting Xuen for one pack, and maybe Conduit for another. Or really, just Conduit alone, because Xuen’s pet AI can be a hassle in open world. Also, right now, Conduit still has a 90 second cooldown, so if you pop it too late, it can actually not be ready by the time you next use Xuen. It should probably reset on Xuen/not have a cooldown if it’s going to stay like this. Anyway, that’s not very important, and the other Conduit notes are much more worrying, named Yu’lon’s Avatar, the Slicing Winds procs HotJS effect from our current tier. This is the kind of mandatory capstone talent choice that is OK to enforce for a single tier, but seems WAY too far to lock in Conduit to taking Slicing Winds, a very controversial talent that many people do not enjoy using, for eternity. You only have to look at the live game to see that for TWW, this exact problem was encountered with a similarly controversial active talent (August Dynasty with Jadefire Stomp), but was much more reasonably put on a choice node with a talent-agnostic option in case you didn’t want to opt into that gameplay. Making a similar choice node here would really help this out, aside from just deleting the node or deleting Slicing Winds entirely, which would be my preference. Also, August Dynasty being removed is understandable since it works with Jadefire Fists on live (despite the UI claiming otherwise) and would maybe trigger too often with reworked Jadefire Fists, but it actually sounds like a really neat playstyle to opt into (following Fists of Fury casts that trigger Jadefire Fists with boosted Rising Sun Kicks). Besides these, Flowing Wisdom is a nice passive node to carry forward, and I’m a little worried about potentially making Strength of the Black Ox an actual proc we care about spending before overlapping. I’m willing to see how this plays out, but previously this was a totally whitenoise proc that we didn’t care about at all and just cluttered the default UI when it showed up with its giant aura arc. If the goal is to make us more proc heavy, I at least like this one actually doing solid damage, so maybe it’ll be fun.

Other procs are in a really weird spot right now. Combo Breaker has become a talent instead of baseline, which contributes to a wider problem of feeling like we’re being taxed on talent points for basic effects. It also has a lot of synergies tied into it with other talents, some forcing procs, some proccing off of it, etc. These are also somewhat bizarrely spread across the far reaches of the tree, making it easy to skip major sources of the proc or rewards from it. However, the one existing thing that made this proc feel worth it, Courageous Impulse, is removed. This makes it really hard to care about the proc itself, since at least how it stands at the moment, we are somewhat overflowing with Chi, and saving 1 Chi from a BoK is really not anything to write home about. On the same note, Dance of Chi-Ji not doing extra damage, sure I maybe get it for tuning reasons, though 0% seems a little far of a drop from 200%. But again, saving 2 chi on a very limp spender is not an exciting reward. If these are the hero talent agnostic procs our spec is meant to build around now, for some reason, then they’re definitely not delivering on feeling like powerful effects that we should care about and get excited to see. Again, shying away from bonus damage effects as a rule seems to heavily limit the design space into a corner where we really can’t get anything worthwhile from these.

There’s a lot of scattered talents that feel like experiments right now that I would be shocked to see hit live servers. Take Rushing Wind Kick for example. First, fish for or guarantee a BoK! proc. Then, hope for a 40% chance to proc after spending it (on Blackout Kick, a primarily single target filler). Your reward is an extremely limp effect where Rising Sun Kick splits its damage, with a tiny bonus per target. This is not an exciting or powerful reward, and has convulted conditions to even get there. This is a miss comparable to Stormspirit Strikes to me, another strange experimental rework of the existing PVP talent that seems to focus on specifically 2 target situations. Here’s another place where finally being free of Storm, Earth, and Fire curls the monkey’s paw and we receive another pet. Sure, it only copies a few key abilities, but this is just asking for a bad time in the future. It also has some jankiness like only having 1 out at a time, but new Rising Sun Kicks not refreshing the duration, so you’d have to really pay attention to an invisible timer to maximize its uptime. This is another I hope to not see outside of alpha honestly.

It’s not all negative though! Skyfire Heel, while a little weak right now, is a neat idea. Crashing Fists, Cyclone’s Drift, and Harmonic Combo are all solid additions that could lead to interesting loadouts. Obsidian Spiral in particular is a pretty huge one, letting us potentially nearly ignore Tiger Plan during WoO, almost reminiscent of old Serenity. Though this does contribute to our Chi overflow, and is antisynergistic to Shado-Pan’s Weapons of the Wall, if it stays.

Other talent tree notes: I know this is unlikely to revert, but I’m really bummed about the Strike of the Windlord/Whirling Dragon Punch choice node. We’re really not overloaded on rotational abilities, and this feels like a step too far in terms of limiting them. We don’t even always take both (see the current tier on live), but the flexibility to take either or both has been a highlight of the existing tree that I’d be sad to lose. Meridian Strikes is a pretty vestigial talent that I’m surprised to see still hanging around, though I think the flat CDR is a good move (same with Spiritual Focus). I’m less enthusiastic about the flat increase from Drinking Horn Cover, as that was a short enough period where it felt like playing well and spending Chi was rewarded, vs the extremely long period of Spiritual Focus that was basically a rough average regardless of how well you played. In the entire tree, there’s a worrying trend of what feel like “tax” nodes, whether it’s previously baseline passives, or 2 point nodes that don’t feel like they really need to cost more than 1. In the class tree, I’m bummed about the removal of Diffuse Magic as an active defensive, though I understand this is part of a wider defensive pruning across classes. I do worry that Fort Brew and Karma will not be able to carry us on their own. Diffuse and Karma could probably do it though. Finally, I have to mention Invoker’s Delight’s removal - this is a wild change that I’m totally blindsided by. ID was the thing that made Xuen feel like an impactful cooldown. To lose it is very strange and only contributes to the feeling that we’re in for a super flat damage profile without impactful cooldowns going forward. While Empowered Tiger Lightning is our sole remaining damage amp during cooldowns, I’d gladly trade it to receive Invoker’s Delight as a baseline effect instead, as ETL is another minor thing we don’t play around much. Moving back to WoO having a flat 20-25% damage amp, removing ETL, and baking in ID would be an extremely welcome change.

Capstones: We have 3 real active optional final paths in TWW: Last Emperor’s Capacitor/Power of the Thunder King, Slicing Winds, and Jaefire Stomp. I would have never in a million years guessed that moving forward, we would lose the Crackling Jade Lightning build and keep the other two (albeit only the Jadefire Fists version). The CJL build is a widely celebrated one with a fun gameplay loop of build and release, a much needed source of burst AoE damage, a really cool visual, and just this expansion got the support of PotTK to help with the cast time issue. The loss of these two talents is probably the single thing I’ve seen bemoaned the most in the community over the last few days. Slicing Winds, on the other hand, has been very controversial from day 1, pushing an empower spell from Plunderstorm onto us with varying degrees of success. While I think the new follow up node is solid, I just really do not want to play with this spell anymore. If it didn’t replace Flying Serpent Kick, the most fun mobility skill in the game, I’d have less of an issue. If it actually moved you forward more consistently across sloped surfaces, I’d have less of an issue. But we don’t live in that world, and not only is it still around, but is it now mandatory for an entire hero spec. This is a baffling move and one that I really hope changes throughout alpha. If these two talents were simply replaced with Emp’s Cap and PotTK, the community would rejoice. Finally, Jadefire Fists - the last clinging of a cool visual that refuses to die. I’ll admit though, at first I thought, why are we still bothering, we know this will be removed in 13.0 at this rate, let’s just get it over with and cut it. Then I played with it in a Conduit build on alpha, and I’ve changed my tune. While I still think it’s basically just a cool looking form of passive damage on FoF, I enjoy it a bit now (and I played Night Fae for all of Shadowlands). The biggest downside is the pathing required to pick it up, as other than this one build, I’ve completely avoided the Combo Breaker-gated right side of the tree.

This is the least excited I’ve been for an alpha tree since the Dragonflight revamp of talents. DF was awesome to see so many things return and the build potential, and for TWW there were a couple things I was sad about losing but also some new toys to get excited about. This time though, it just makes me want to play the live game while I can, because there’s not a lot I’m looking forward to and a lot more that I’m bummed I won’t be able to play with anymore.

For more feedback from members of the Windwalker community on each individual change, check out the sheet we made as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQOH40DDM5SPs48l1SnR8iqTuXduo-J5aTTuHVRPUoZcGAfKqQlPrFh8jgW13ADu_3VsHKd4bcoo62X/pubhtml

[Vohrr-sargeras]

Mistweaver Spiritfont First Impressions: build 63534

Overall positive: Spiritfont as an apex talent allows soothing mist to integrate as a core part of the kit without forcing a particular playstyle or forcing the player to spend a lot of time channeling, which is great. I find the core concept to be both cool and powerful

For this post I’m going to keep the focus on gameplay/feel and how it aligns with the new stated design. The way it currently functions mechanically causes some concerns in those areas:

• Spiritfont adds two additional buffs, both that need to be tracked in order to be played around optimally – the proc and the active buff, this feels counter to the stated design direction in the initial alpha blue post especially since…

• There is no aura indicator that you have a Spiritfont proc (Enveloping Mist doesn’t highlight/no proc graphic appears)

• The Spiritfont proc can stack up to two times, but the buff does not pandemic or extend past 8 seconds if more than one is consumed within that 8s window
  – The bonuses to enveloping mist and rising sun kick are based on this active 8s buff so refreshing or consuming an additional stack before the buff has expired/very close to expired is suboptimal.
  – The reason this feels particularly bad is because we have other procs (Celestial, Black Ox) that dynamically change enveloping mists priority in our rotation and will create moment to moment situations where we have to choose between losing spiritfont bonus uptime and potentially losing other procs to expiration/buff refreshes

• Spiritfont does not apply soothing mist or chi cocoons to un-injured targets. With absorbs being preventative in nature (wanting to apply chi cocoons before damage occurs, not after), this creates a situation where we can’t use Spiritfont pre-emptively without losing a ton of, if not all, value from the talent.

– An example of the problem the last two bullets create: I pressed vivify which resulted in a strength of the black ox proc. That same vivify procced spiritfont. I want to prepare for upcoming damage by casting that enveloping mist to get the envelop hot rolling, spread mending proliferation, and apply the shields from black ox. But if I cast it before anyone is injured, or if they reach full health early, then my spiritfont will end early or not apply altogether.

For a first iteration I think the talents are in a great spot, but hopefully some tweaks can be made to address the conflicting incentives to press buttons at given times.

[Swirl-area-52]

I’ve patiently waited to write a bit of feedback regarding Mistweaver in Midnight to see more changes come to the spec but with Beta around the corner – this seems like the best time. Apologies for the long-winded post as I’m summarizing 6 weeks worth of massive changes to the spec.

First and foremost, I’d really like to emphasize that I love the current distinction that Mistweaver has between Raid and M+ content that both take vastly different talents and heal in mildly different ways yet have similarities between each other. It really feels like playing something new every time you swap between the forms of content and blends the perfect amount. To me, player’s choice of taking each others talents and using them in the other’s form of content (Yu’lon in M+, Chi-Ji in Raid) coming with the expectation that it will simply be weaker is a solid trade-off for players that don’t want to play those builds or playstyles.

I am hopeful that this pseudo-split Mistweaver has continues moving forward, with maybe a little push into slightly more direct casting/targeted healing in M+ and slightly more melee-based healing in Raid. This feedback is purely PvE based.

I’m a huge fan behind the philosophy of the removal of healing amps across Mistweaver’s toolkit. It’s been an unfortunate road that specifically M+ Mistweaver has faced with the requirement on stacking amps on amps on amps in order to effectively heal through dungeon mechanics.

I understand the sentiment of reducing burst in cooldowns and I could really care less about Jade Empowerment but outright nerfing Yu’lon healing is a very feelsbad moment. Invoker’s Delight, Shaohao’s Lessons, Mending Proliferation, Enveloping Breath removed while Rushing Wind Kick, Soothing Breath, and Enveloping Mist heal amp have all been nerfed to the ground - these losses will all be felt while inside of the cooldown. The removal of Mending Proliferation for Raid Mistweaver is probably the biggest loss to Yu’lon’s HPS as recent buff averages for the spell are just so high (30-40%) across the raid that you are effectively losing at least 40% healing on basically all targets, especially during the cooldown (60-70%) when Enveloping Mist counts skyrocket.

Putting power into the baseline healing of Enveloping Mist its self is a great incentive to continue using it, although even though this prune has happened, I suspect M+ Mistweaver will still be bound to the confines of hard-casting/ramping with Enveloping Mist (a long cast!) prior to damage occurring due to the now only healing amp in the kit being attached to it at 10/20% with Mist Wrap.

Fortunately, we have a bit of a boon to our cast times with Peer into Peace becoming baseline under Soothing Mist to allow for GCD-time casting of the spell. Back to the unfortunate news that, as a hyper mobile melee spec, we are once again glued to standing completely still in melee and casting for 4-5 seconds (or longer, depending on desired stats like this big push for mastery???) every time there are damage requirements. Emperor’s Elixir is not enough as casting Thunder Focus Tea at the beginning of your ramp in order to give yourself movement on SooM via TFT + EnvM means you’ve wasted several seconds of Secret Infusion, Vitality drain, Spiritfont duration + all of the effects under Spiritfont + the other effects tied to TFT.

No, Way of the Serpent (to me) is not an effective answer when compared to the strength of double Tiger Palm from Way of the Crane as we heavily lean into Jadefire Teachings as healing methods. Even historically “rampy” healers have less of a ramp (I’m looking at you, Discipline Priest, with one cast of Radiance before cooldowns) than Mistweaver does and will very likely still have moving into Midnight. Maybe this is no longer an issue with damage pattern changes coming in Midnight. I don’t know, but it’s not looking great.

Renewing Mist changes have come in various forms - Misty Coalescence and Amplified Rush’s introduction, Chi Harmony removal, Lotus Infusion nerfs, Rushing Wind Kick’s amp nerfs - I think they’re alright at best.
Misty Coalescence - genuinely great way to force M+ Mistweaver to finally use Renewing Mist as a regular healing spell in their regular rotation while keeping the desired effect of maintaining high Renewing Mist counts in Raid.
Amplified Rush - Throwaway talent. Probably better than Pool of Mists in M+, but still boring. Another attempt at making Mastery good.
Chi Harmony removal & Lotus Infusion nerf - Good. Good riddance.
Rushing Wind Kick amp nerfs - this needed to happen. far too much power was put into Rushing Wind Kick’s effect that kind of left Renewing Mist as lackluster without any effort of picking it back up.

I’d still like to see another buff to Renewing Mist, perhaps more towards the Misty Coalescence side so that 5-man environments can feel the effects more and gain more incentive to using the spell.

Invigorating Mists becoming uncapped is a phenomenal change and I’m hopeful that Mistweaver in Midnight can once again see the light of juggling Renewing Mist counts across a raid and amplifying their healing by proper usage of Rising Sun Kick in order to upkeep those HoTs for massive Vivify’s with the potential of Zen Pulse on the raid.

Rushing Wind Kick is outright boring and makes the spec feel far too easy with no “reward” to properly healing. I know it was a way to add to the player count of Mistweaver by simplifying one of the harder parts of the spec (staying in melee, lol) but I think we’ve all had our fun of not needing to hit a target to receive 100% of the benefits of Rising Mist and Rapid Diffusion. This is antithetical to Mistweaver being a melee spec in the first place.
To add to the effect on the spell, I don’t think capping it at 5 targets is the right way to go. This is purely a buff to M+ while major nerf to Raid since it can (and probably will) outclass Jadefire Teachings in healing, especially if damage patterns desire less “maintenance” healing that Jadefire Teachings provides following the loss of Jade Empowerment.
I’d like to see the talent either completely removed or reworked to force a requirement of at least hitting SOMETHING with the damaging effect in order to receive 100% of the benefits - could just be a 50% nerf to its power when it doesn’t hit anything. Rework the effect on it to be larger bonus to Raid. Maybe something like what was removed from Rising Mist?

Celestial Harmony changes very welcomed for Yu’lon although come a bit uneven for Chi-Ji. Gaining 2 globals outside of Chi-Ji is very good for your prep but comes no where near removing 60% of the cast speed of Enveloping Mist for Yu’lon for the entire duration of the cooldown. Perhaps this is an artefact of the previous iteration that gave Yu’lon two instant Enveloping Mists. I’d love to see this worked on for Chi-Ji.

Mana Tea just needs a direct buff to its mana return after the removal of the mana cost reduction buff. There is no reason I should be going oom in 3-4 minutes with major emphasis on crit gear while mostly pressing DPS buttons that cost 0 mana.

Please please PLEASE fix the talent point investment on Life Cocoon. Get rid of Mists of Life. Please, I beg. 4 talents of investment (nearly required for pathing for M+ builds!!!) to make Life Cocoon decent on DPS and still horrifically bad on tanks is a disgrace to the silly external Mistweaver has compared to other healers 2-point investments on their externals that scale infinitely harder.

The elephant in the room must be addressed: Master of Harmony. I’ve mostly been waiting for this tree to have gotten any changes at all before giving my own feedback but it hasn’t been touched. AT ALL. We’ve gotten the new set of talents that just implement our previous tier set (in a nerfed-ish manner) and increase Ancient Teachings healing. Boring! Why is it that this tree hasn’t received any changes? More than half of these nodes don’t even affect healing in any manner and almost the entire thing goes against Midnight’s “tracking” philosophy.

• Vitality completely untrackable without weakauras (can’t do this in Midnight anymore!) and goes against the “tracking” philosophy of Midnight. Should have been implemented like High Tide was for resto sham with 0-100 stacks of the buff being your tracker.

• Balanced Stratagem still bugged in various ways and goes against the methods that Mistweaver plays to really take the talent in its best form. Given a ramp - Enveloping Mist 3x, RSK to extend HoTs, Sheilun’s Gift to capitalize off healing amps. Enveloping Mist gains 3x Phys, RSK consumes all 3 Phys but doesn’t actually heal since this is done prior to damage, Rapid Diffusion ReM eats the Nature Stack created by RSK, and now Sheilun’s Gift is bare from Balanced Stratagem. If the travel time of the RD ReM exceeds the gain of the buff, you only gain 1 stack of Nature to use to buff your Sheilun’s Gift. Yay a 3% bonus! There are countless examples of this just being bad and not useful in any manner. Also goes against the tracking philosophy.

• Manifestation nerfed with the loss of Chi Burst while Chi Wave is laughably bad in healing and damage.

• Purified Spirit should be baseline. No reason for all of my vitality to be wasted if I don’t spend it all as a healer. Harmonic Gambit is a good tradeoff in order to let it only do healing with Purified Spirit, but a different choice node should be placed here.

• Tiger’s Vigor / Roar from the Heavens - fine talents. Conduit also has a movement increasing talent.

• Endless Draught is a good talent to be able to hold multiple TFTs for back to back usage especially with the Apex talent. Quite bad compared to CDR from Conduit (will point at this in the next paragraph).

• Mantra of Purity / Mantra of Tenacity - Purity does like 5k HPS while I’m doing 3m hps overall. Disgustingly bad. Tenacity does not offer even the slightest of benefit to Mistweaver. Compared to the defensive node of Conduit, Niuzao’s Protection and Jade Sanctuary tops this choice tenfold.

• Overwhelming Force does not contribute to healing by way of Ancient Teachings and is still laughably bad post-multi-nerfs in TWW

• Path of Resurgence unusable with the removal of Chi Burst and barely does anything with Chi Wave as it cannot be controlled. Most of the time, you’re already doing more than enough healing to fill vitality quickly that Path of Resurgence is DOA, especially in Raid. Why is this not combined with Manifestation? Or node-chained together with it? Why is this even on a choice node with Way of a Thousand Strikes?

• Way of a Thousand Strikes should just be baseline. Again, most of the time, you’re already doing more than enough healing to fill vitality quickly that this doesn’t really matter.

• Clarity of Purpose should have instead been a healing increase, maybe in the form of a HoT on the target?! A little baby Aspect of Harmony HoT, not a vitality addition. Goes against the tracking philosophy even though it is fairly “passive”.

• Coalescence is a fine talent that drives most of the power of the tree, although I truly think that the tooltip should have the chances explicitly stated on it for spread and intensify. They are somewhat of a mystery when trying to theorycraft and explain to new players of the tree.

New talents:

• Harmonic Surge reintroduction in my opinion should have been a Mistweaver option, not just Master of Harmony. Big fan of the addition to Vivify to it to allow for Raid builds to flourish with it while still remaining useful in M+ as Vivify is still casted in both, although the rest of the tree still does not give that possibility to be usable in Raid.

• Potential Energy is a major solve to the previous iteration that procced off of a scaling vitality gain - this was smart and I’m a fan of the way this was implemented.

• Zenith is boring. 50% increase to Ancient Teachings is good, but very boring and doesn’t affect gameplay in any manner. Maybe okay for single point in the tree. Not okay compared to the rest of the tree the way it is.

Let there be more active gameplay of this tree! It is almost entirely set-and-forget where you’ll be using Thunder Focus Tea under the pretense of damage incoming or, in the case of M+, mostly sending it offensively to deal extra damage. Functionally, its just kinda dead in Raid and I’d love to see changes made to it that allow for proper choosing of hero talents based on boss encounters in Raid.

This leads me into the biggest issue I have with Mistweaver overall: the imbalance of Thunder Focus Tea between the two hero trees. With our Apex talents receiving Spiritfont, the importance of pressing Thunder Focus Tea as many times as possible to receive healing is overwhelmingly large yet one tree has a clear advantage over the number of casts of Thunder Focus Tea within a fight. Conduit of the Celestials has massive CDR on Thunder Focus Tea that blend fairly seamlessly into its gameplay yet Master of Harmony simply has 2 charges that only ever equate to +1 usage over a raid boss or dungeon.

This imbalance between TFT forces your hand towards using Conduit in all forms of content due to the overwhelming amount of power attached directly to Thunder Focus Tea across nearly all talents on the tree, new and old.

Master of Harmony needs major work in order to be a contender for being used against Conduit of the Celestials in Midnight. Hoping that no changes to it yet means that a rework is coming to the tree in Beta.

Overall, it seems like most, if not all, of these changes are aimed at buffing M+ while nerfing Raid and that seems unjust. Mistweaver should excel in both forms of content and changes should be made accordingly to not have such an imbalance of changes directed towards one over the other.

While I am excited for a new expansion in WoW, I am really afraid of the life of Mistweaver moving forward. We’ve had some dark times over the years and unfortunately I feel as though this is leading up to another shrouding. Hopeful that these things can and will be worked out.

[Toixic-icecrown]

Most of this is coming from a Mythic+ perspective as we’re waiting for raid testing to see how some things shake out in a raid setting.

My main concern for Mistweaver as a whole is the lack of incentive to bring Mistweaver to keys/raid. If throughput is our niche then we need to have extremely competitive throughput. Without throughput we bring Mystic Touch which is usually not a consideration in Mythic+ and can be filled by Brewmaster or Windwalker in raid in exchange for a healer that brings more than Mistweaver does. If throughput healers are a thing of the past, Mistweaver needs new tools to be competitive in some way with other healers for both raid and Mythic+

Another concern is lack of personal survivability. Not long ago Mistweaver would die if looked at by a mob and this was remedied through a few different avenues but Bounce Back, Diffuse Magic, and Expel Harm have all been removed, leaving us with just Fortifying Brew, stamina from Jadefire Teachings, and Dance of the Wind. I admit Dance of the Wind is very powerful but it has the potential to be inconsistent if there’s lots of random Phys damage going out.

Fortifying Brew leaves much to be desired and I do worry that Mistweaver will be in a similar position as we were in in Shadowlands/early Dragonflight. Of course we retain Life Cocoon but that’s typically used on other players as it’s our only external.

Mana consumption isn’t something I want to talk about yet but it is a concern with the Mana Tea nerf.

Class Tree

I don’t have a ton to say about the class tree to be honest. I’m not a fan of losing our kick as Mistweaver of course, it was something we brought that didn’t necessarily make us stand out vs. other healers in Mythic+ settings but it did give us something that wasn’t just throughput.

Our kick and kick modifier nodes are still under construction but everything else is pretty similar to live, mostly just triggers being replaced if their base ability was removed.

Spec Tree

Life Cocoon
Life Cocoon still requires an excessive amount of points required to make it what it is. During alpha there was some shuffling of talents but they ended up being reverted. Between Chrysalis, Calming Coalescence, and Mists of Life, we have quite a bit of point investment to make Life Cocoon pretty mid and largely unusable on tanks. I think any of these could be baked into Life Cocoon to make it a 2 point investment but the power level would remain the same.

Ideally Life Cocoon finally becomes usable on tanks. I’d prefer if Life Cocoon’s absorb would scale off of target HP rather than player HP so that the strength is proportionate to the support they require for their damage intake. It could also be a smaller absorb with a DR, or a choice node between a DR and a large absorb, or any appropriate ratio between absorb and DR.

Celestial Harmony for Yu’lon specifically there needs to be additional throughput either via Celestial Harmony or given to Yu’lon herself. Currently the only healing she provides is Chi Cocoons on use, and Soothing Breath which is not appropriate power wise for a major healing CD. Currently she’s just an underwhelming totem. An easy solution could be to allow her cast an additional Enveloping Mist to her Soothing Breath targets every X seconds spent channeling. Or something along the lines of Yu’lon copying the next X abilities (limited to Enveloping Mist, Shielun’s Gift/Vivify, and Renewing Mist) cast by the player up to 8-10 abilities for Jade Bond or 4-5 abilities for Gift of the Celestials.

Tea of Plenty and Tea of Serenity
This choice node was removed a few builds ago and I wasn’t sure why, I have to assume it’s to keep the power of Conduit of the Celestials in check as it scaled pretty hard and Thunder Focus Tea became very overloaded. I’d actually like to see these back. They felt awkward before but with Emperor’s Elixir they would be at the appropriate power level as a capstone alongside Emperor’s Elixir. I’d like to see the tea talents replace Dance of Chi-Ji as a capstone.

Dance of Chi-Ji
This talent isn’t necessarily bad but it really doesn’t compete compared to the other capstones. I don’t know if this talent needs to stick around or just get numerical buffs but right now it’s not really a choice.

I agree with a lot of what Swirl said above, especially regarding hero talents and the imbalance of power between them with Thunder Focus Tea.

Hero Talents

Master of Harmony
As of right now, Master of Harmony needs some significant help partially due to lack of native tracking for the amount of Vitality stored – this has been a long standing issue solved by a WeakAura but due to combat addon changes we are losing the tracker.

I was happy to see Harmonic Surge return as well as the removal of the RNG aspect of it, though it was very high proc rate I appreciate consistency through force procs.

There hasn’t been gameplay changes for MoH though this is my preferred playstyle it currently doesn’t seem to be competitive compared to Conduit of the Celestials. Hoping for more changes for Master of Harmony. Mainly on Overwhelming Force as this is exceedingly weak compared to the rest of the tree. Clarity of Purpose, Balanced Stratagem, Manifestation, and Mantra of Purity all feel very minimal and work in the background but don’t contribute real power to the hero talents.

Conduit of the Celestials
Conduit received a lot of attention this cycle and currently looks very strong! I generally don’t have any issues with it though it’s not my preferred hero talent, I hope we end up in a similar place as we are in TWW where Conduit is primarily for raid and Harmony is primarily for keys.

Apex Talents
Spirit Font seems very cool to me. I do think that 50% effectiveness on Chi Cocoon will end up being hilariously low given Chi Cocoon is a very small % of our HP and even at 100% effectiveness it does very little healing and often cannot prevent meaningful amounts of damage.

This of course may be coming from the TWW perspective and perhaps it ends up better fitting damage patterns in Midnight but the numerical values are concerning.

While my experience with PvP is limited, and I’ve only really done it as WW in arena, I’ve been talking with high ranking Mistweavers for PVP feedback.

PvP

Song of Chi-Ji is an ability that has really shown its age and is due for a bit of a facelift. The slow moving cloud is pretty easy to counter compared to what other healers/classes have access to in modern day PVP. Given that it’s a sleep effect, a cast similar to that of Sleepwalk would be an easy answer and appropriate power level for a choice node with Ring of Peace.

Another answer could be a rework similar to that of Smoke Bomb from Rogues. This could cause problems in PVE as it would be an insane gathering tool among other things, so perhaps a PVP talent modifier to give the Smoke Bomb effect. It makes sense thematically and lore-wise (Shaohao shrouding Pandaria) as well as the visual for mists being intuitive to hide/conceal.

Alternatively it could have a green/misty Smoke Bomb visual but simply be a DR for all forms of content, similar to Disc barrier.

Way of the Serpent being taken for the caster playstyle would require some additional changes or support through PvP talents to prevent being interrupted on the Soothing Mist channel. If it goes live as-is, a cancel cast macro would be required to bait kicks on Soothing Mist which complicates the spec and, based on how the rest of alpha has gone, seems to not be the goal of spec design.

The 40% movement speed reduction seems harsh considering Mistweaver is intended to be a hyper-mobile healer. I understand there cannot be a world where Mistweaver gets full throughput while moving 100% of the time, but Way of the Serpent may not be the best avenue for this functionality. Instead of providing casting while -40% move speed, something that supports instant casts to encourage mobility without forcing cancel cast macros or letting Mistweaver be a slowly moving target to be kicked easily.

Celestial Harmony
Yu’lon specific – see PVE section above.

Absolute Serenity (PVP Talent) needs to be baked into Conduit of the Celestials either in PVP combat, as part of Jade Sanctuary from the Conduit tree without the lingering effect, or just give CC immunity during the channel of Conduit of the Celestials at a base level. I don’t think this breaks anything for PVE since being CC’d is fairly uncommon for dps/healers and the precedent is there in PVP through Evoker’s Emerald Communion.

[Haevenpsye-moon-guard]

While testers wait for the bugs to be solved, I’d just like to update some thoughts here about Monks. These are some things I hope to test out. I’ll be brief.

Beside key high level class talents, all monks should have access to all statues because mix-matching statues allow for better customization of play styles. For example, a Mist Weaver can use a pulsing Tiger Statue to help keep rogues away. Windwalkers can use Ox Statue to distract pets so they can DPS their squishy targets. And Brewmasters can use a Serpent Statue to heal himself and cast instant Vivifies so he’d be healthier while fighting. Statues can be a branch beside key max-level talents so players can choose either or both.

So mix-matching statues is important and can be fun! In a raid or PvP, I’d love to pop all 3 statues to save myself. ^^ But statues are not overpowered because if your opponents outnumber you, you’ll be at a disadvantage.

I also recommend Leather Armour for Mistweavers. So a Monk could switch between 3 specs depending on the situation if they choose. Also, since they’ll have better survivability, Mistweavers will be better melee healers if they choose. ^^ Edit: Oopsie daisy, Mistweaver Monks can already wear leather armour.

Considering Monk’s talent Flurry Strikes: I think it should apply to Tiger Palm instead of Keg Smash. That’ll be simpler and look cooler. But it should still have a chance at big damage, like the old Press the Advantage talent. I greatly want to test Flurry Strikes.

I’d like to say praise. Considering Brewmasters, I think focusing more attention on managing Stagger will be very fun because Stagger is a novel idea and it is the main skill that makes Brewmaster a unique, fun and hilarious Tank. ^^

[Nattae-area-52]

So, I wanted to share a few quality-of-life suggestions that would improve gameplay feel and clarity for Mistweaver Monks:

• Jadefire Stomp Duration: Thanks for keeping this alive with the Thunder Focus Tea > Rising Sun Kick Combo, but could the Jadefire Stomp effect remain active on the ground a bit longer? The short duration doesn’t really give it umph, ya’ know.

• Mana Tea Buff Tracking: Please allow Mana Tea to appear in standard buff tracking in the Cooldown Manager. Having to rely on external or manual tracking adds unnecessary friction.

• Cooldown Manager GCD Option: It would be great to have an option to disable GCD visualization on Cooldown Manager icons. Watching every icon refresh for each GCD cycle can be visually overwhelming, especially during high-action moments.

I think these tweaks would help gameplay feel smoother and more comfortable to play. I’ll be the first to say I’m hesitant about the direction of Midnight’s combat decisions, but I am hoping you guys get it right.

[Moritz-proudmoore]

My feedback is simply that I’m having lots of fun on my windwalker still. I was sceptical but im pretty happy with it. (Im shado pan)

Loving zenith. It looks awesome and I’m pressing it a lot more than I did storm earth and fire.

Having strike of the windlord trigger dance of chiji which then procs blackout kick feels really good. Especially when that triggers rushing wind kick. Its a full chain and works really well.

Still gonna main this spec in midnight (so long as nothing changes to the spec to ruin the fun that is. Still beta after all so I anticipate some changes will happen)

[Gianavel-feathermoon (Gianavel)]

@Nattae-area-52

Jadefire Stomp Duration: Thanks for keeping this alive with the Thunder Focus Tea > Rising Sun Kick Combo, but could the Jadefire Stomp effect remain active on the ground a bit longer? The short duration doesn’t really give it umph, ya’ know.

You know you don’t have to stand in it anymore, right? Or is it that you just want the visual to last longer because you like the look?

I haven’t been able to copy my toon, so I don’t know how long it lasts…

[Delrithae-hyjal]

So, there are several inaccurate spells in the Windwalker spellbook that needs removing or changed.

• Combo Breaker is now a talent, yet it is still a spell we learn at level 19 (well before we can talent into it). Because of that, while leveling, we gain the Combo Breaker effect even when not talented into the spell. This spell needs to be removed from the spellbook.
• Sharp Reflexes is also now a talent. But given we learn the spell well before level 23 when we originally learned the spell, we cannot game the system. Still this spell needs to be removed from the spellbook.
• Spinning Crane Kick Rank 2 is our old Mark of the Crane. However Mark of the Crane was removed during War Within, yet this spell is still in our Spellbook. This needs to be removed.
• Blackout Kick Rank 2 - From a leveling experience, this, along with base Blackout Kick, needs changing. This effect was fine when we learned Fists of Fury at level 20 back in Battle for Azeroth, however ever since Shadowlands when Fists of Fury was learned at level 12, those first few levels as a Windwalker feels ROUGH. The rank 2 needs to go and Blackout Kick baseline should cost 1 chi; not 3 chi.
• Fists of Fury in the spellbook still shows up as being learned at level 12. However, we learn the spell from the Windwalker spec tree at level 11. This probably should be removed from the spellbook or have it’s level requirement removed.
• Invoke Xuen is showing as level 42 requirement when it has been changed to be used to trigger Conduit. The level requirement should be removed or have the spell removed completely from the spellbook.

[Mickey-eitrigg (Mickey)]

Figured I should make a follow up to my previous Windwalker feedback post, now that a decent amount of it did get addressed!

• Zenith is a much more welcome name than WoO, thanks for that! Also great to see a damage buff tied to it, even if it does feel like a talent point tax right now. Would still love a new icon. Still doesn’t feel that amazing as a cooldown, though I like Zenith Stomp.
• TEB has not received any changes and is still unconvincing to me. Figuring out that the stack recharge is hasted was nice though.
• Shado-Pan clean up since the last posts has been great. No more energy spending node, no more pet, reworked Flurry Strikes and raising the cap, all very nice. I’m a little wary of the auto attack focus so far, but it’s clear that’s part of a larger effort so I’ll see how that goes.
• Conduit not requiring Slicing Winds any more is a nice win that I expected to see, though Zenith is a little awkward as a trigger. Making Xuen Conduit only is definitely weird feeling, but maybe fine? I’d love to see Invoker’s Delight back as a Conduit node much like Xuen’s Bond, but maybe that’d be better to tie to Zenith instead honestly (Shado-Pan would love it too), though I can see the overlap with TEB.
• Tying Xuen and Conduit into a single button is actually the thing I’ve soured on the most, though I don’t have high hopes of that getting changed now. There are so so many times in Remix where I’m in open world especially and use Conduit on its own without Xuen, and it feels very clunky on Beta to have to summon (and usually waste, since usually I just need Conduit to obliterate a pack in 3 seconds) Xuen first.
• Procs are still limp and I’m still avoiding taking them a lot of the time when I mess with talent builds. I especially dislike the forced proc node after SotWL/WDP, since it gates the Zenith damage buff that feels mandatory.
• Speaking of, I really really dislike the SotWL/WDP choice node still. Again, in Remix, I’ve basically just taken the most fun talents to use, which includes both of these. It’s really going to suck to not have the option to use both, even if we only end up using one in several of the current live builds.
• i still would like to see the CJL talents return, maybe as an alternative to Slicing Winds. Another idea I’ve seen floating around is to change Slicing Winds to just enhance Flying Serpent Kick vs being an empower, which could be interesting. Losing FSK is maybe my biggest complaint with Slicing Winds.
• Nice to see some of the wacky experimental nodes get cleaned up and removed (and Fatal Touch’s damage bonus!). I remain unconvinced on Skyfire Heel and Rushing Wind Kick though.
• Just for fun: probably my favorite build right now is Conduit+Jadefire Fists.

Overall, definitely some positive iteration since the first build! However, I still am wary of the changes as a whole and am worried that the spec will simply be less fun than it is on live, with less opportunities to craft a build that I enjoy.

Also, +1 to Delrithae’s concerns above. I cannot overstate how bad Blackout Kick feels before level 17 whenever I level a new Monk, and it also teaches you the opposite of how to correctly play with our Mastery during that period. Our spellbook and leveling experience could really use a look, as it’s been neglected for years.

[Rionduil-blackrock]

@Mickey-eitrigg

Tying Xuen and Conduit into a single button is actually the thing I’ve soured on the most, though I don’t have high hopes of that getting changed now. There are so so many times in Remix where I’m in open world especially and use Conduit on its own without Xuen, and it feels very clunky on Beta to have to summon (and usually waste, since usually I just need Conduit to obliterate a pack in 3 seconds) Xuen first.

That’s my biggest pain point right now. I really REALLY don’t like it being tied together like that. So much so that I’ll likely just go with Shado-Pan now. Which sucks since I like the flavour of Celestial and having attacks augmented by the celestials akin to Udyr from LoL.

The choice node between WDP and SotWL is also… not great feeling. I get they wanna reduce button bloat but when you reduce buttons too much you kinda lose the flow of combat with WW in a way.

[Leland-silver-hand]

I get what Blizzard was trying to do with Enveloping Mist, but please stop and update the spell graphic rather than altering the player’s cast posture. Monks are not Priests. We shouldn’t be floating in the air when we channel this. We have a custom cast animation / Wise Serpent Stance for a reason. This cheapens the class. Revert. It doesn’t even work right when you spam it. It goes right back to the superior channel on the ground.

Zenith is really quite good. Doubly so now that we don’t summon a stalker from the bushes via Wisdom of the Wall.

[Khaoswolf-area-52]

General Changes.

So far the overall changes to WW look good. No more pets and splitting the class into two distinct fantasies of martial and mystic monk are awesome. More focus on raw upfront damage over micromanaging multiple small buffs/debuffs feels better.

Spec Tree Design

I feel like combining WDP and SotWL into one node is the only bad design choice currently. You want more buttons as a monk especially if you run low haste (like the start of every expansion) and find yourself out of energy to press TP.

Slicing Winds was a fun little gimmick but i think nobody would miss it if you changed it to something else.

Bring back Chi Burst as an empower/charge ability. Let us charge to three levels. One chi per level, cast while moving, and make the capstone a level four that costs another chi point. Give it a variable cd based on the empower level used (15-20 secs per level. Maybe reduced by haste) and bonus damage to the primary target. Damage reduced beyond five or eight targets. DO NOT DAMAGE SPLIT THIS. Increasing the healing per level is optional.

Please make either Sharp Reflexes or Combo Breaker baseline and move Memory of the Monastery up a tier. in its nerfed state it does not belong in the bottom tier competing with way stronger talents.

Hit combo is just boring. you got rid of most of the other small dps increases can we take this one too? Just move flurry of Xuen here like it is on live.

Sunfire Spiral does not need to exist with Fast feet and Rising star.

Universal Energy is awesome for class fantasy. Can we have a way either during zenith or after some amount of chi spent (like old Tiger Eye Brew) you can get a buff that converts physical damage into magic damage for a very short time. Maybe after casting the reworked Chi Burst above you get four, six, eight, or ten seconds of this buff based on empower level.

Ferociousness is just a dead two node talent. Even as conduit you are better off not spending two points here and just taking Touch of the Tiger.

Class Tree Design

On this side of the talent tree we have 3 two point node that increase damage by 2/4%. can we please change these nodes into stats or remove them. Ferocity of Xuen can be crit. Chi Proficiency can be either mastery or haste. Martial Instincts can be versatility. I truly do not understand why every other class in the game gets stats in both class and spec trees but monks do not?

Redesign Chi Transfer to put a buff on the monk that stores the damage from chi transfer and pops it when the monk drops below like 35% health. This will make it more usable in all content rather that just never taken outside solo content.

Diffuse Magic is just dead unless there is far more magic debuffs you can reflect. In pvp the vast majority of dots you can reflect have dispel protection meaning you just both burst yourself during Fort Brew and possibly CCed yourself depending on the dots you dispel. In pve there just is not enough dots that full reflect back to caster.

Can we get a class tree talent like DH and shams for successfully interrupting casts gives us magical damage reduction to replace diffuse magic?

The stacking of Yulons avatar with Heart of the jade serpent is way too strong making your Crashing Fists version of FOF completely channel in less than 1.5 secs.

PVP Talents

Absolute serenity says its inactive even if you have conduit as your active tree. Rodeo can be removed since clash is gone. With WDP being a choice node with Strike can we get a talent that competes with rising dragon sweep? Maybe turning strike into a vacuum pull in a small aoe similiar to Ursols vortex on cast?

Can we make the parry from Turbo Fist actually parry all incoming damage. If warriors can parry FOF during Die by the Sword then i can parry bladestorm. (i assume since FOF requires a target and bladestorm does not is why this interaction works this way.)

Maybe since we have some more magic focus we can deflect a small amount of the damage from any spells that can be spell reflected. Maybe 15% of direct magic damage taken during FOF is dealt overtime like stagger.

Other Class Ideas

Can we get a spec cosmetic option (Not a glyph!) to have our chi spheres orbiting around our monk. Give us a few options on where the orbs can float and also allow us to change its color. Let us choose our magic damage color for our magic aura or spells like Zenith, chi burst, or flurry strikes etc. More class cosmetic choices!

[Equinox-zuljin]

Brewmaster Feedback

BUG
Face Palm isn’t effecting Tiger Palm from what I can tell.

____

Since we are starting on tuning I’ll mention the weak aspects that need big buffs

Bring Me Another 1st Apex Talent needs a massive buff to be semi decent, even with the ricochet its so weak.

Empty the Cellar has some targeting issues (will dump all 5 barrels into a critter over the mob you’re hitting) and is just overall too weak compared to fuel on the fire, similar to bring me another it needs a raw numbers increase.

Awakening Spirits if you want it to compete w/ Vital Flames needs a 200%-300% buff or more atm and even then I don’t think you’re gonna be able to compete even if vital flames is nerfed down to 20% because of how strong self healing is

Keg Volley is kind of meh, not bad and not great. Would like to see this have some added functionality to it instead of only giving you an extra keg once a minute.

Press the Advantage is still a weird talent that needs a full rework and doesn’t retain any functionality that it currently has, removing our main spender and only having it proc on every 10 stacks (would have to be like 3 or 4 max) is not good.

Celestial Flames is cool but remove the proc chance and make it a permanent change so we can just have that synergy of fire damage w/ vital flames or phys dam w/ bring me another.

Fort Brew: Determination needs reworked it’s too weak for how infrequent it is, I’d love to see potency added to this.

One with the Wind is not really worth using, would need replaced w/ a new talent.

___

That being said there’s a lot of positives from all the changes, our end tier apex talent is cool giving us party util. We have strong self healing via vital flames, breath of fire is good again, we have longer range pulling tools due to the range increase from Stormstout’s Last Keg, and some new cool visuals. Hopefully some of the stuff above gets addressed so we get more talent diversity

[Illaandra-gilneas (Illaandra)]

I’m going to keep my feedback very, very simple so that it is not misunderstood.

Slicing Winds? Get rid of it, or knock it back down into the bottom of the WW spec tree.

Thanks.

[Salizar-moon-guard]

I never really post on the forums, but logging in just to make a comment.

I’ve played WW + MW since the release in MOP - primarily WW so I’ll only make a comment on this.

Emperor’s last capacitor was an absolute W. It makes use of an otherwise unused spell which is thematically very cool, and feels good to press, it’s not confusing, and just an overall fun ability. Seems like a very odd choice to remove this ability.

Slicing Winds - the concept for this is very cool from plunderstorm. My issue with this is 1, it replaces an iconic utility/movement spell for damage. 2. In a fast pace spec, it slows us down and is clunky. 3. In general it’s not fun to press. it doesn’t feel good, it doesn’t look cool and just seems like an odd choice to keep.

[Leland-silver-hand]

Looks like the same thing is happening with Crackling Jade Lightning as well. Seems “Way of the Serpent” is causing it. Look guys. I don’t know if the Priest Dev is doing double time here or what, but a little background.

Monks have their own stances they use when fighting. That’s kind of the whole point. Stance of the Wise Serpent is a CORE part of our kit. If we wanted to float when casting, we would reroll as Priests. Now please get rid of this hovering we do when we channel and design something a little more thematic. It doesn’t look good and it actively degrades Monk’s theme and design.

The only saving grace, is that we can ignore it outright for now with “Way of the Crane”.
No idea if that’ll change though.