Feedback: Shamans

This thread is dedicated to leaving feedback on Shamans in Midnight. Look in this thread and in the Midnight Alpha Development Notes for adjustments and bugfixes made throughout the testing period.

Please note that off-topic or inappropriate posts will be strictly removed.

Apex Talents

Many Apex Talents are available for playtesting and may be selected using specialization tree points in the final specialization tree node. The current User interface (UI) is temporary for playtesting purposes and will be replaced with a final UI later in development. As with any test cycle, we will be adding more Apex Talents to the test over time and not all will be available with the start of the alpha test.

To help us refine Apex Talents, please consider the following questions as you playtest:

  • How gameplay-impacting, exciting, and fantasy forward is your Apex Talent to you?
  • Are your Apex Talents and new Hero Talents meeting the approachability goals laid out in our Combat for Everyone in Midnight article?
  • Are there cases you would consider not selecting your Apex talent?
  • Does the Apex talent disproportionally favor a particular talent build or Hero Talent tree?

For feedback regarding the changes on making the combat system more approachable for players of all skill levels, leave your feedback in the Combat Approachability feedback thread.

Thank You

We greatly appreciate all your feedback and are very excited for you to test out all the changes in Midnight!

Elemental

Our goals with Elemental for Midnight are to reduce the number of rotational abilities and auras tracked, make it simpler to engage with Stormbringer talents, and add new gameplay for using fire spells in AoE. Flame Shock can now be replaced with an upgraded ability, Voltaic Blaze, that applies 6 Flame Shocks and causes your next Lava Burst to hit all Flame Shocked targets, similar to previous designs for Primordial Wave. With this version, we’re looking to allow a quick transition from Flame Shock application to the AoE Lava Burst for simplicity and keeping up with the demands of AoE against short-lived creatures. This is an optional talent path, so for players who want to focus on lightning and maelstrom spenders that’s still intended to be a viable playstyle.


Enhancement

Going into Midnight, we are aiming to reduce the amount of information to track for playing Enhancement Shaman optimally. To achieve this goal, we are looking into reducing the number of buttons, auras, and spell highlights to track, while heavily keeping in mind how it feels to play Enhancement Shaman. In addition to the core Enhancement changes, we are aiming to reduce the overhead of understanding two different Hero Talent rotations. The hero talents have affected the rotation a bit more than we’d like. We’re making adjustments that will allow these Hero Talents to fit into Enhancement’s core rotation more naturally while preserving what is unique about them.


Restoration

Shamans have a bunch of strong utility and many rotational spells, so an important goal for us in Midnight was to balance the number of possible active abilities. We’re also looking to remove talents that add auras that are constantly active or ones that temporarily modify other spells which can often make normal spell casts feel weak.

A significant change here is the removal of Healing Surge and Tidal Waves. We are reducing the base cast time of Healing Wave and Chain Heal to simplify gameplay and adding options for mana management through talents for situations where mana management feels valuable. We recognize there is a loss of a decision point when doing single target healing and will be monitoring feedback closely when it comes to Healing Surge being removed, but our goal is to keep the spell decision-making simple because healing already has dynamic gameplay with target choice.

We’re also updating Healing Rain to last 18 seconds when not playing Totemic. While we want the instant, long duration Healing Rain to be a hallmark of Totemic, it makes the alternative feel less awesome when it has to be cast every 10 seconds.

Another goal for us was to reduce the number of available group cooldowns healers have access to, so Ascendance and Healing Tide Totem are now a choice against each other. We want healers to feel powerful, but having too many powerful cooldowns often leads to needing to deal spiky damage to challenge them.

3 Likes

II thought I’d post thoughts on the things I know the most which is Elemental Shamans and Resto Shamans, in regards to heroic raiding, and mythic plus to an okayish degree. This is for the first Alpha Build release, and I’ll make a new post referencing just base changes later for new builds and talents as they come out but here’s some thoughts I had.

General Shaman Opinions

  • I can say from questing in baseline gear, I really miss stone bulwark totem already, I know we’re missing whatever capstones are coming and trying to reduce survival cooldowns but it was great.

  • I think with all these changes in the tree, I’d love to see Nature’s Swiftness get moved further up the tree like it is for resto druids, or at least have it enhance an ability to do 10-20% more damage. For a capstone talent it’s always been a bit lack luster.

  • With the miss talents capstone talents at the end that need to be filled, having something like chain harvest come back in a shaman themed form would be amazing. Maybe an electrified chain heal that shocks enemies and heals allies on a longer cooldown?

  • As for the other one in the totem section, being able to carry your totems with you in a radius that followed you like for a duration would be nice for movement fights. A moving spirit link or or other totems would be really nice.

  • With the pruning of so many of our defensive totems and healing totems in the resto tree, the totem talents feel a bit too plentiful. There’s almost too many at this point and it might safe to fold in the range one with the duration one for example.

  • Unless we added another totem like Vesper Totem again perhaps, that would make the totem side of the tree feel a lot better. Or bring back a fire totem to add damage perhaps that all specs could utilize.

  • Overall I’m liking the way shamans are feeling a whole and most of these suggestions are quality of life changes.

Fire Build

  • I tried out the fire build using fire talents on the right hand side first because it’s the opposite of what I have been and what most ele shamans are playing now. Having a lava burst focused build looks amazing and lava burst feels a lot more impactful when it hits.

  • Though with lava burst I’ve always thought it needs to get modified by critical strike chance to do more damage since it always crits, I think that would give it more staying power and carve out a cool single target niche for it.

  • Voltaic Blaze is a great ability, and it’s nice to essentially fold in a few abilities to spread flame shock everywhere instantly without having to fiddle with placement of a magma totem. I also like that you can and honestly should get the purging flame talent which makes your next lava burst hit all targets with flame shock.

  • The Purging Flame Talent feels really good when you hit it, though I will say from a mythic plus perspective, if it gave you a charge of lava surge right off the rip when you hit, that would help solve our issues with low health enemies in the world. Even with a good amount of haste, I’ll find myself having a chain lightning cast die on low minions before they’re blown up. I think just one more touch with a lava surge would smooth it out and help with our initial ramp times.

  • One thing that I think is probably just a bug is that Flame Tongue weapon is missing from elemental shamans right now and isn’t placed in either tree, it does show in enhancement though. I went to go apply it for the 6.5% fire damage buff and realized it wasn’t there lol.

  • I know there’s a lot more talents coming both in far seer, elemental and other trees so I expect the weird feel to the lava burst build will smooth out with some future builds.

  • I feel like all the lava burst modifier talents and how it plays are feeling good right now albeit a bit more slow and hard casting. It might just need some more talents to feed into them to make it feel more snappy. Maybe a way to generate aoe lava burst charges via another purging flame talent, or maybe remove the cooldown deep in the tree for fire again?

Lightning Build Feedback Elemental

  • This feels very similar to live, not a lot has changed, the weaving feels a lot better and I think most builds are going to stick with lightning talents, at least for stormkeeper and power of the maelstrom, even lava burst focused ones.

  • At the moment, without extra talents both tempest and far seer play a bit smoother than the lava build. Everything has a nice rhythm and the additional damage on thunderstrike ward makes me wonder if it shakes out enough damage to compete with just a flat percentage increase to damage. I like there’s another talent for it because thematically the shield enchants are great.

  • It’s a lot of wait and see waiting for new talents to come out, but a quality of life I’d love to see for Tempest would be to apply it randomly to another target if you accidentally hit a target that already has it at at least a certain duration. You’d want to be able to refresh it when you need to but when you’ve got reflexes like a dead cat (guilty) sometimes you slam two in to them back to back before realizing you should have tabbed. Even a choice node with that option would be cool.

  • In that respect, I’ll say that the Farseer tier set from manaforge felt really good, having more ancestors and another button to guarantee one more was really nice, it makes the whole spec just feel better. And I think with that kind of build option with the lava burst side it’s really gonna cook <3.

  • I don’t mind that they used the manaforge tier set for the elemental tempest talents as well, it did feel nice to get tempest right off the rip with ascendance so I think that was a great choice too.

Testing resto next and I’ll swing back for more edits and to make this format loss wall of text atrocious looking.

Restoration Shaman Feedback General:

  • I can appreciate that we’re trying to trim up the buttons because in live we have so many buttons it’s hard to fit them all. However, I can say, I think restoration shamans might need something back in a rotational way. You spend a lot of time just spamming chain heal or healing wave between riptides.

  • Healing wave having a lower cast time does help me forget healing surge is gone and the talents to up it’s healing really help our single target healing issues we’ve had in prior expansions.

  • I’m hoping it’s a bug but not having decurse as a click cast option feels awful especially since have it in live right now. Also, I think natures or ancestrals swiftness should be click casting enabled as well, it’d be a nice quality of life change to make the standard UI work for healing better.

  • The new talents introduced do give a few different playstyles between chain heal, healing wave and earth shield which is nice and I think will lend itself to some nice build diversity.

Far Seer Feedback

  • Tying back to the loss of buttons in a way, generating ancestors on healing stream totem sounded fine on paper, but in practice it doesn’t hit the same. Unleash life was nice because it gave you the choice to power up a chain heal or a single target heal which was more flexible.

  • It wasn’t so bad to use it for dps either because you could bank the charge and heal with it and dps withe ancestor. And getting an ancestor from undulation is missed to for how often we spam it.

  • If I had to suggest the rows for the talents, the tier set as mentioned above for manage forge was really nice, and having more ancestors just feels great all the way around. It feels good for dps and feels great for healing too, far seer excels in flexibility and being able to heal scattered friends.

Totemic

  • I’ll start by saying, that on live with this last raid tier, I’ve loved farseer the most, however, before this tier in live it was all about totemic. I love chain heal and endless chain heals from dropping totems, it was very fluid and offered extra healing you could pull with multiple totems.

  • In this Alpha build I’m back to liking totemic more because farseer is missing ancestors and doesn’t feel as constant by comparison and Totemic has more synergy.

  • With the removal of all the extra totems I think the earthsurge totem might be better with changing it to healing rain to increase the healing along with earth living since the totems are gone.

  • Lava lash does 10% damage I assume will become surging totem if I had to guess but I’m curious to confirm it.

14 Likes

Resto Shaman Feedback

Currently the spec is less fun on Alpha than it is on live in dungeons.
The stripping down of the class to 4-5 basic healing abilities really affects the depth of the class to a level that is boring and unfun to play. At a baseline level the class needs to be fun to play in order to enjoy the content no matter how good or challenging dungeons and raids are.

To me what initially drew me to the spec in legion was the toolkit and the feeling that I had a button for every type of situation as long as I responded correctly. That has been stripped away in favor of many passive talents that are unfulfilling to play with.

Thoughts on a few removed abilities

Cloudburst Totem - added depth to the class and engaging thoughtful gameplay throughout encounters. Little hits of dopamine from timing cloudburst perfectly or seeing huge cloudburst number go up were a ton of fun. Removing this really affects my enjoyment of the spec, you replaced this gameplay loop with nothing. Reacting to damage with baseline abilities that have little to no interaction with each other is not fun.

Unleash Life - Lately this had become a Maintenace buff to spawn ancestors on cd but the idea of it augmenting your next spell depending on what you cast is worth pursuing.
It adds a small amount of thought such as planning a big chain heal for the next incoming damage event. That is better than just making chain heal baseline better but having 0 thought behind it just reaction. This is similar to when you removed Ancestral Guidance a 2nd time, you buffed baseline healing to make us just as strong but ultimately the spec was less fun with its removal.

Healing surge - I am not torn up about removing this but its just another tool that we lose. Even with reducing the cast time of healing wave it is painfully slow compared to live with tidalwaves. Just adds more situations where other healers have the tools to react faster to incoming damage so why would you not play them instead?

Why was wellspring removed? It was a fun spell in shadowlands that really has not had a good time to shine in the past two expansions. Disappointing

High tide - seemed like a simple to understand talent that modified chain heal to be more powerful once the mana spent component was met. It did not add a huge amount of complexity but did require a weakaura to track mana spent if you wanted to min max.
Talents like this are good for the spec, I think mana spent is the wrong resource to enable the talent but the direction of spending resources to gain a large payoff is good.
Maybe every 3 healing streams you spend gives hightide or something. Just think it is a loss to go from this to passive talents that have no interactions.

What was added

Extremely passive spells that offer little to no gameplay interaction are not fun and seem uninspiring.

  • Passive hst buffs
  • Passive earth shield buffs,
  • Passive riptide/healing wave buffs,

Talents like Current Control - Reduce mana cost of healing wave by 15%.
Or Crashing waves - Healing wave crit chance increase by 12%

None of these talents interact in anyway with another spell why is this just not baked in baseline to the ability? There are no real choices

I wrote the word passive a ton in this feedback and that is basically what the whole spec feels like. Just like the live version of the raid spec in Manaforge. I see 30 healing spells on details but I am pressing 2 buttons. very boring

I am not going to make this extremely long; this is a tenth of what I want to convey to the devs based on these changes. I will iterate on this as Alpha goes on.

Bottom line the class is less fun to play and was over pruned. We are missing any real gameplay hooks or minute to minute gameplay decisions that are engaging. Rotationally, we have less tools and ability to perform the role in a unique way.

I really want the devs to ask themselves what would inspire someone to pick the class in this state over another healer? What about this version of resto shaman would make you want to include them in your team?

37 Likes

Apex Talent feedback
The apex talent is just an upgraded healing stream another extremely passive ability.
This whole apex talent is extremely RNG. There is no bad luck protection. I literally cast like 17-20 Riptides with no proc.

I really don’t know how to convey any better, but I do not want the amount of healing that I am capable of doing to be Rng. I do not want the healing I am doing to be passive.

You can also not even bank the charges of storm stream for when you actually need the healing. You have to use it instantly or it will get overwritten if the next riptide procs.

Most shamans want to do the healing directly. We want to be able to make decisions that affect who is receiving healing. This gives no control and overall feels like you are moving the class to a worse state.

Please please review how this spec actually plays

28 Likes

Since we eliminated so many buttons, being able have storm stream as a button that held the charges for like, 30 seconds at the least would be nice. And if it’s going to be an apex talent, having it build percentage until one happens would be great. 5% increase when it doesn’t happen. So at least you know that one in 20 or less riptides will do it, or some other number that fits.

6 Likes

While I don’t particularly main Shaman, I have always loved Enhancement since Vanilla and play Enhancement on and off.

On the Alpha, unclear if its a bug or intended, the power of Healing Surge being lowered so much vs Retail while seemingly being just as squishy as on live feels bad. I will say the self healing on retail feels too strong but now it feels far too weak even with 10 stacks.

Again, I know it’s alpha and that tuning passes will be made but I believe its better to provide the feedback that as of now Healing Surge does not feel as good as it used to and I feel much much more vulnerable in a bad way from what I have tested so far.


UPDATE: 10/16/2025

With the removal of combat addons, their ability to read spells and effects… I would love if we could get better UI for Maelstrom Stacks instead of just watching buff stacks/certain abilities.

It would be nice if we had a better display similar to Combo Points or Holy Power.

10 Likes

To preface my feedback, I myself am a novice at Restoration Shaman, so this was compiled with the help of a veteran 3.5k-rated Resto Shaman player who observed me throughout my testing and helped me word the comparison to its playstyle in TWW.

At its core, Restoration Shaman in Alpha feels like a day and night difference compared to its retail iteration. The specialization has been heavily pruned, with many spells removed in an effort to balance the overall “number of active abilities,” as mentioned in the Midnight patch notes. After a full week of Alpha testing, I believe this pruning has gone too far. The end result has negatively impacted the spec, not only in terms of gameplay flow but also its spec identity.

Good Changes

Starting with what I feel have been positive changes for Restoration Shaman, I’d say that moving away from certain auras and spell modifiers is a healthy direction. It never felt good that Restoration’s basic casts were largely meaningless unless they were buffed by multiple talents, leaving us in an awkward, helpless spot whenever those effects weren’t active.

While it is not ideal to see them go out of the sheer attachment that many Restoration players have to them since Legion, abilities like Tidebringer (specifically the cast time reduction), High Tide, and Tidal Waves have all felt frustrating to manage to varying degrees.

Mixed Changes

The choice between Ascendance and Healing Tide Totem really stings. While turning these abilities into a choice node is the correct choice for the raiding scene, I believe it will ultimately hurt the spec in Mythic+, especially as players begin tackling higher keys.

I understand that limiting cooldowns aligns with the upcoming Midnight encounter philosophy, but it might be better to keep both abilities and simply tune their strength instead. For instance, a talent modifier could empower one to act as your primary cooldown while keeping the other as a weaker but still serviceable option.

Either way, I think this is worth revisiting to preserve Restoration’s flexibility and identity, especially considering that we lack other external defensive tools such as single-target damage reduction or emergency shielding abilities like Life Cocoon, Pain Suppression, or Time Dilation.

Poor Changes

Now, for the elephant in the room, whether Restoration is considered a spec with true depth or not can be argued both ways. However, with the current alpha iteration, I feel that debate no longer matters. The spec been stripped of rotational complexity and spec identity, reduced to what is essentially a three button rotation.

The build diversity of Restoration has also narrowed significantly, with Whispering Waves and Healing Rain/Downpour spam emerging as the go-to talent setup. As a result, much of the specialization’s healing now feels automated (even more so if you pick Healing Tide), leaving its impact on encounters minimal, often just placing Healing Rain and Healing Stream Totem and hoping for the best. It’s disappointingly similar to how the spec was played back in Mists of Pandaria, a 13 year old game.

This could be addressed by reintroducing Cloudburst Totem, an ability many players found genuinely fun and engaging. Keeping it as a choice node with Healing Stream Totem would maintain flexibility for those who prefer simpler gameplay, after all, more options are always better.

Another issue lies with Riptide, which has become not just uninspired, but outright frustrating to play. You have to monitor its uptime on allies, as Whispering Waves is practically mandatory, and with Tidal Waves removed and Stormstream Totem as the new Apex talent, you’re forced to spam Riptide on cooldown, hoping for an extremely rare proc from SST. This doesn’t feel exciting or powerful as it’s essentially just another Healing Stream Totem with a new name.

On top of that, Restoration is being severely hindered by the removal of certain auras and modifiers, most notably Tidebringer’s range increase for Chain Heal. This change has proven especially punishing in dungeons, where allies often spread out (whether for comfort, player choice or due to encounter design) severely limiting the effectiveness of both Chain Heal and Healing Rain (not to mention HR has an increased cooldown that punishes mobility now), two of the spec’s very few tools for keeping the group alive within an already overly simplified kit.

Lastly on healing, the modifier contradiction: currently on the alpha, a sizable portion of the spec tree is filled with modifiers, making it feel as though we have to spend a decent number of points just to make our baseline spells perform adequately. This feels strikingly similar to the issues currently faced on live (one that was supposedly being addressed) though now it’s simply less obvious and less impactful.

Many of our talent points end up going into small numerical bonuses like “Healing Wave gains X% more critical chance” or “Chain Heal costs X% less mana.” This problem extends beyond the spec tree itself and into the new Hero spec and class talents, which are largely flat percentage stat gains or basic buffs to core abilities. In my opinion, this is a missed opportunity and, frankly, a waste of talent space for a spec that, in this alpha build, suffers from limited build diversity and depth. It effectively reduces Restoration’s identity to Riptide spamming and maintenance, and drop-and-forget spells, both which are neither engaging nor enjoyable gameplay.

As a last point of frustration: all of this feedback is only the healing side of the problem. Restoration has, at times, been capable of contributing meaningful DPS to a group composition, especially during dungeons, but those options have now vanished. Master of the Elements is gone, there is no way to spread Flame Shock, and Ancestor summoning is now awkwardly tied to Healing Stream Totem. Even Thunderstorm, a versatile tool for interrupting enemies or creating breathing room to heal has been made exclusive to Elemental, which really hurts the utility parity between shaman specs.

Conclusion

To summarize these thoughts: while I believe the overall aura and modifier pruning, along with some defensive adjustments, is a step in the right direction, there’s still room to reintroduce certain abilities to give the spec more build diversity and depth during gameplay.

Bringing back partial aspects of the removed auras could also help smooth out gameplay and make the experience far more engaging. For example, Tidebringer’s range bonus could return without the cast time reduction, or Master of the Elements could make a comeback to enable Flame Shock spreading without reintroducing the Healing Surge (now Wave) buff.

I myself am relatively new to directly playing Restoration Shaman, but even from a brief comparison of gameplay between TWW and Midnight, the spec feels far less engaging to play on the Alpha, with far less places to reward skilled cooldown management. Hopefully, the overall goal of rotational simplification can be achieved without dulling down what makes Restoration Shaman such a unique totem-centric healer.

22 Likes

A few points of feedback for latest alpha build 10/23

First and foremost, unleash life being returned feels good. The ability augmenting the cast time of the next ability makes it feel impactful. However, I think the 20 sec cd makes the spec feel a bit too slow. I understand this is addressed in the tier bonus, but after the first season I see the gameplay loop around unleash life becoming slow. Also think allowing this to be used to augment damage spells would be nice and break up the monotony of the Rsham dps rotation.

The Ascendance change I was initially hesitant toward since it is definitely an overall nerf to the abilities power level but playing with it does make the cooldown a lot more fun. I think baking in the ancestral guidance effect of 25% healing copied to injured allies would equalize the power. For quality of life, I would recommend a few changes. Either resetting riptide charges to full or increasing the recharge rate of riptide during the ascendance window.
Riptide has to be used on cd with the way the spec plays but using ascendance reactively without full riptide charges feels really bad and leads to downtime in the cd. If you want that as a gameplay thought to plan ascendance better and bank riptide charges that is fine, but it feels bad used reactively.

Some areas that are still deeply concerning to me is the Apex talent, the lack of mid length cooldowns, and power level of chain heal vs healing wave/whispering waves. I am begging you guys to make the apex talent more deterministic, the way it currently plays is extremely negative for the spec. Such a large part of the specs power budget tied to an Rng proc will make content infuriating for most high level players while nearly impossible to balance. There is so much design area in this space that can be so much more engaging. Let us build up to activating slipstream or have a deterministic trigger for the ability once per minute.

I understand ability number tuning is not complete on alpha but I think more power is needed baseline to chain heal compared to healing wave. Currently a single healing wave heals for more overall than chainheal. Adjusting the power here is key to interesting gameplay. Chainheal needs to be powerful enough to warrant pressing over healing wave but should be cost prohibitive to being the only button pressed. Conversely healing wave should never be the first/only choice of button to press when aoe healing is needed. Currently on live that feels very unintuitive to new players where the build never uses healing rain or chain heal in raid. I think the talent whispering waves leads to this degenerate healing wave spam playstyle, reworking this talent would be greatly appreciated.

The removal of cloudburst and earthen wall/totem reset left a gap in the 45sec-1min cooldown space that I think should be iterated on. This is something I think Fellowship does very well with the weapon abilities. I think a comparable wow ability that would fit well is chain harvest from shadowlands. We have lost our ability to spread flame shock with the removal of master of the elements, and chain harvest could fit this dual use role of damage or healing depending on the situation.

For Class tree changes, I do not mind the kick change to a 30second wind shear, but I think that makes the class tree talent windveil very underwhelming for Rsham and a point you would never spend. Would like to see this changed for resto to warrant a talent here.
This seems to be an unintended defensive nerf to rsham where we will definitely be lacking after removal of stone bulwork totem and unreliability of Earth elemental. Speaking of earth ele, please allow the defensive health bonus to persist for a set duration.
Having the ele spawn and instantly die to 1 melee is not even worth the press on M+ trash

With this change to kicks and the removal of thunderstorm knockup, I think capacitor totem activation time should be reduced to 1 second to allow more reactive use in M+
With Paladin, I can instantly hoj or blinding light if a kick is missed with Shaman my reactions used to be knockup into cap. Cap totem by itself is annoying to time with the 2 second activation. The class tree talent Mana spring needs to be fixed balanced or preferably reworked. Currently it says it restores 37 mana per riptide when the mana pool is 180000 at lvl 88. That is returning around half the mana cost of one chain heal over the course of a 9min fight…
Also moving Therazane’s Resilience to class tree is a god tier change, much appreciated.

Lastly, I think adding back ancestral protection totem as a choice node with spirit link would be a good choice. You could add the baseline totem with a larger radius that just gives the 10% health without the ankh portion to the first talent. Then add text to spouting spirit talent allowing the ankh talent for AP totem and maybe a moderate heal on placing it. Would give another option for fights that play very spread without great SLT use cases.
I think investing 2 points into the totem to enable the ankh portion would justify a 3min competing cd.

Thank you for continuing to look at the spec. I am more hopeful this week but would really like a fix for the apex talent. Fixing that with a talent that has an actual gameplay loop not a passive proc and adding a 1min cd talent would have me looking forward to the midnight expansion.

9 Likes

I want to echo this. I love this apex talent idea but RNG healing is really hard on a healer who is trying to time healing through damage bursts. We want to control when and where our healing bursts happen.

9 Likes

Some updated feedback after trying out some of the changes from Phase 4 for a few days. Overall, Restoration Shaman’s gameplay has seen only limited improvement from these changes. While there are some genuinely positive adjustments, the core issues that existed in the Phase 1 build remain largely unresolved.

Good Changes

● Unleash Life’s return has been a welcome change and offers a life-line to Farseer and Ancestor gameplay.

â—Ź Blanket buffs to our core rotation are a solid step in the right direction.

● Therazane’s Resilience being moved to the Class Tree is a nice quality-of-life improvement.

● Keeping our interrupt despite overall pruning is greatly appreciated, it shows that the team values Restoration Shaman’s hybrid identity beyond just healing.

Ongoing Issues

● While Unleash Life being back is great, the inability to keep an Ancestor active permanently (as we can on live) really hurts the flow of gameplay. Reducing UL’s cooldown back to 15 seconds — or alternatively, extending the Ancestor duration via Heed My Call — would help restore that smoother rhythm.

● The blanket buffs don’t address the deeper design problems. Chain Heal/Healing Rain/Downpour remain too restrictive, leaving them ineffective in dungeon content due to its range and target limitations.

● I am very glad that Restoration Shaman has kept Wind Shear, but its cooldown feels excessively punishing at 30 seconds. A middle ground — perhaps 20 or 25 seconds — would maintain its utility without overstepping balance concerns. Shaman has always played a supportive role in interrupts, and this would preserve that identity. If the longer cooldown is intended to stay, please consider returning Thunderstorm to help offset the loss of utility.

â—Ź The Class Tree layout could use a small adjustment: Earth Elemental being locked behind Enhanced Imbues and a 3% Mastery buff feels restrictive, especially since Mastery has historically been our least valuable stat.

● Too much of our talent tree is still devoted to incremental buffs for core abilities. This space could be better used to enable diverse and engaging build paths. Currently, we’re forced into the Whispering Waves/Riptide route, which feels like a chore to play.

● The Apex talent remains underwhelming both visually and mechanically. It looks identical to Healing Stream Totem, and the RNG-based trigger tied to Riptide procs feels clunky. Having to “save” a proc for the right moment disrupts the natural flow of healing. It might be passable for Totemic, though still quite boring, but for Farseer it feels outright misplaced.

â—Ź As Healing Stream Totem no longer summons Ancestors, this feels like the perfect opportunity to reintroduce Cloudburst Totem as a Farseer-oriented option. Doing so would meaningfully expand build diversity, allowing Farseer to favor Cloudburst while Totemic leans toward Healing Stream Totem, much like their current distinction between Ascendance and Healing Tide in the present alpha build.

Overall Current Thoughts

I think the spec (especially Farseer) is slowly finding its footing again with the return of Unleash Life. That said, there’s still some space for improvement.

The gameplay loop still suffers from too much automation, which does most of the heavy lifting while player agency remains minimal, making the spec feel like it’s playing itself.

In addition, our Apex talent feels fundamentally flawed. While it’s undeniably strong, it’s also unengaging and unfun to play. I would honestly prefer to see it reworked or replaced entirely, as its current design limits us from evolving beyond Healing Stream and restricts the spec’s potential for more dynamic gameplay.

The loss of utility is still noticeable, though I can’t express how much I appreciate that the development team has kept Wind Shear. I’d love to see Thunderstorm make a return, and for some of the existing talent nodes to be folded into baseline abilities, freeing up space for more diverse and interesting build options.

12 Likes

Enhancement shaman feedback - PvP main

Class tree

Overall I’ve been a fan of the class tree since its early iterations. As a pvper there’s a swathe of utility and minor choices I can make that have felt good in the past.

An issue that existed prior and still exists now is a lack of exciting capstone talents to make the tree exciting.

Natures Swiftness

This capstone node and pathing has always been a strictly ele/resto talent, with no real effect on enhance as it has MSW stacks for casts. Spiritwalker’s grace has seen some very limited play in PvP due to the follow up aegis talent for hexes, and I imagine the mini sprint node has some niche PvE use, but I think that these talents could use some brushing up to make them interesting class capstone talents instead of ele/resto talents

Totemic Surge

This was insanely disappointing to see moved to a capstone spot when the early iterations of the midnight tree still had NYI capstones. This talent is uninspired, but yet still mandatory because of how impactful it is on things like grounding totem and HST. As a whole I think blizzard misses the mark on what capstone is supposed to mean in regards to the shaman tree.

Instinctive Imbuements

Again, this is basically just a 3% agi node. The QoL effect could be a passive learned by shamans when you learn lightning shield. I wish blizzard gave some communication on what they think of when making capstones because my assumption was always that these are the big final talents you look forward to when levelling up, not minor passives you’ll forget taking and be nerfed for having.

General Tree

No major complaints. Decurse needs a connection from capacitor totem and spirit walk either needs a 40s or lower cooldown or some added effect like freedom. I wish a minor defensive wasn’t tied to earth ele as it’s basically impossible to pick it up (as a pvper) now that a bunch of nodes require 2 points to max, and there’s a lot of utility and healing nodes that are too strong to ever really think of getting both the earth ele and follow-up damage reduction node. I also think winds of al’akir should be more interesting and spirit wolf needs less ramp time or a changed effect

Spec tree

Most of what I have to say is RIP wolves. An iconic ability that I loved having and I just can’t play because it’s been beat into the ground. Every single talent past the 20 point gate feels like it is there to either empower your baseline gameplay or doomwinds, not just by increasing your damage, but by giving you tangible differences in what your spec is doing. The only thing not doing that is wolves, and their damage bonus was gutted and they don’t generate MSW, so what are they supposed to do?

The only other point that annoys me is stormbind. As a pvper I was super excited to try it out but it seems to either have an ICD or not consistently work. If it does have an ICD then it should just be removed/changed because having guaranteed nature crit abilities that don’t actually slow people sometimes is insanely annoying (the whole point of removing addons was reducing the need to track stuff like that).

Apex talent and Crash Lightning

First thing I’ll mention is the base functionality of crash. Right now it is a straight up flat amount of damage that splits between 5 targets. For one, this will be insanely annoying in PvP as my big apex ability will randomly get split on pets, and it will also be hard to balance, as there will be situations where (based on what I saw from current tuning) I can hit someone for 15k+ with stormstrike + ride the lightning and then crash will add 7.5k damage (40%+ increase) or I’ll hit pets and it will add 1.5k damage (less than 10%) and I’ve even seen 4 stacks of the crash buff during doomwinds which would exacerbate it more.

I think crash should hit the main target for x damage and split x damage among remaining targets so that this issue doesn’t arise.

For the apex nodes I think they’re pretty good. I think attack speed is fun and a lingering effect is cool, even if it’ll probably be terrible in PvP. I don’t think I will ever pick up that last node outside of melee cleave battles just cause auto attacks are meh and people usually don’t sit in ground effects for long.

Stormbringer Tree

I think the Descending Skies node should work on doomwinds use because being forced into Ascendance doesn’t feel good. Otherwise I like the talents still.

General impression

Overall enhance feels very good to play. Doomwinds→ sunder feels really good as an opener to get maelstrom stacks rolling and a haste boost into crash→ stormstrike/lash spam. Voltaic blaze feels good as a filler/opener as well for the flame shock spread and a bit of msw gains as well. Even with low base haste values it still feels like I have that typical enhance apm which I’m happy to see.

As far as defensives go, I’m not entirely sure how to feel. From a pve pov, I gain raging maelstrom and perma earth shield which is helpful for on demand healing to survive burst damage windows (assuming healing surge isn’t nerfed into the ground). From a PvP pov I have less survivability due to losing stone bulwark totem and I also lose thunderstorm. Only having frost shock root to offset that seems like a poor trade

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Much of how i feel has been covered by previous posts, except…

I know totems are iconic for this class, but so are elementals….Perhaps, you could focus on elementals buffing shaman healing spells, casting more spells alongside us….or buffing our group somehow would also be an interesting dynamic to include. I also realize ancestors do this, but there are other things elementals could do alongside them.

The stripping of healer shaman spells feels bad and the class does not play in an engaging way at all. Giving it zest with new mechanics/spells that would add some fun to the rotation would be nice.

Fun being, having spells that cause a person to weigh a factor or two before casting, instead of just mindless spam.

8 Likes

This is Feedback for the changes to Elemental Shaman from a PvE perspective.

I’ve broken my feedback down into sections so they’re easier to digest. There’s some overlap between the sections, but they’re mostly self contained.

I will start by going over some of the issues I think players that are new to Elemental Shaman or the game in general face when engaging with the specc. This is mostly sourced from recurring questions on the Earthshrine community discord over the course of the expansion as well as my own experiences.

I will then adress some of the core issues I see with the development changes for Elemental Shaman so far.

What makes players struggle when engaging with Ele Shaman for the first time?

Looking back at some of the most frequent questions being asked in places like the Earthshrine community Discord over the course of the current expansion, I believe it’s this: The biggest hurdle to players learning Ele Shaman is a significant disconnect between how powerful or important certain talents are to play around and the reality of their impactfulness. This leads to new players hopelessly overthinking the specc and either focussing on aspects that are often miniscule in their importance or end up falling into patterns of play that are far from optimal even though they appear intuitive at first.

I also want to draw attention to the fact that the overwhelming majority of people that engage in discourse about this specc are considering the current iteration of Ele Shaman the most fun version of the specc they remember. Unfortunately, the development changes for Midnight so far are largely the polar opposite.

Pruning has gone too far

Pruning and the talent changes that have been introduced so far unfortunately miss the issue I outlined earlier at many important points: Changes focus on the number of buttons the specc has, rather than how they do and do not meaningfully interact with one another. Many of the questions that have come up about the specc over the course of the expansion stem from the fact that it is not clear how impactful certain talents are and how important it is to play around them.

One example of this is Master of the Elements. Currently, it is a miniscule gain in raid settings (around 1% damage if memory serves) to make perfect use of this talent. However, the talent reads as something that should be considered in terms of rotation, and is continuously sparking questions because people generally overvalue its impact. Adding a choice node that lets you ignore an element of gameplay that was already barely worth considering just adds to the confusion because it suggests that Master of the Elements is the choice for optimized gameplay. Which it very well might not be depending on tuning.

The choice node between First Ascendant and Preeminance is another set of talents where the intuitive approach often leads people down the wrong path. Many players assume that because they have a two minute on-use trinket, choosing First Ascendant becomes the logical pick to line up their big cooldown with their trinket. In reality, this is basically never the correct choice.

For Mythic+ in particular, Lightning Rod is a regular talking point. Technically, it is optimal to spread Lightning Rod to as many targets as feasible. This will result in a single digit percentage gain in damage over the course of an entire run, but can easily amount to up to more than 10% additional damage in a large pull if done correctly. Since this is not trivial to execute, I would put active Lightning Rod spread in the category of higher level optimization. However, many people zero in on this gameplay loop. Often at the expense of working on their fundamentals, like making better use of their spenders or making sure that they’re playing their rotation correctly. One example that comes to mind here is players (incorrectly) using Lavaburst in AoE settings to buff their Earthquakes through Master of the Elements because they assume the talent is impactful enough to warrant the GCD.


The approach to reduce complexity for the specc, however, misses this issue for the most part, because the choice so far has been to reduce the number of rotational buttons rather than bringing the expectations that players harbour towards certain talents in line with reality.


Icefury in particular is a talent where I struggle to understand why it got removed. Right now, you will get two proccs of Icefury every 40 or so casts of Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning or Lavaburst. The spell itself does relatively low damage on its own, but does generate a good bit of Maelstrom and can overload. I do understand that the way it empowers Frostshock afterwards might look unintuitive, but it is actually a good example for expectations being aligned with reality, because while using empowered Frostshocks correctly is technically a damage gain, it’s not significant enough to care about it if you don’t want to.

Fusion of Elements is another story. I do think that the new version for Midnight is a fairly elegant solution, but it should also be said that many of the questions surrounding Fusion of Elements just stems from how poorly the talent is worded/explained. It says it will trigger after casting a nature and fire SPELL. This isn’t actually how it works. It triggers after you’ve caused both nature and fire DAMAGE. Which means that spells like Flameshock (Volcanic Damage) and Elemental Blast (Elemental Damage) will instantly trigger Fusion of Elements. It’s not helping that for example the German version of the game doesn’t say fire AND nature, but instead says Fire OR nature.


Removing a spell because of the rat’s tail of complexity that, in part, is heightened by poor wording/mechanics seems like a heavy-handed solution, especially seeing as this basically removes both Icefury and Frostshock as buttons.


I do not think that a specc being straight forward to play is mutually exclusive with a certain number of rotational buttons. The goal should be for every button to have a clear purpose. If something proccs, it should be the correct choice to just use it, i.e. Icefury. If I have a button that hits many targets at once, I should press that button when there are many targets (see Voltaic Blaze in the next section), and if I have a talent that I can use to make my hard hitting spells like spenders to more damage if I cast them immediately after Lavaburst (i.e. Master of the Elements), doing so should make more than a 1% difference.

Reducing player agency and introducing un-fun gameplay decisions.

I want to preface this by saying I’m well aware that I do not represent the average PvE player in this game. I crave a certain level of complexity and opportunities for skill expression in a specc. Part of the reason why I write this is simply because I’m worried that my favourite specc in this game is simply not going to be fun for me anymore.

That being said, I do believe there are good arguments for why some of the introduced changes when it comes to reducing the number of rotational buttons are not a good direction. I want to split this part into two lines of reasoning:

  1. Taking away, and specifically combining buttons, reduces player agency and introduces moment to moment choices between only bad options.

There are two main examples for this I want to bring up:

a.) Voltaic Blaze (VB). I want to say for the record here that the introduction of this talent is a huge win. Effortless Flameshock application to multiple targets is something the specc has been in dire need of for a while now, and Voltaic Blaze basically solves this problem by itself.
However, the fact that it replaces Flameshock is a poor choice. The stated purpose behind the introduction of VB is to give Ele an on demand multitarget burst that doesn’t require much setup. It does that flawlessly. Flameshock, the spell that gets replaced by VB, does something else entirely. It’s a DoT I want to keep on my primary target at all times to make my Lavabursts crit and to get Lavasurge proccs as well as making full use of the new Inferno Arc talent. With the way the two spells interact right now, there are undoubtedly going to be situations where I need to either let Flameshock expire on the boss I’m currently fighting, or choose to refresh it with Voltaic Blaze but not having the spell ready for a set of adds that spawn in a few seconds.
This kind of choice between the lesser of two evils is to my mind too high a price to pay. It is the exact same issue that persists with Stormbringer’s Tempest for Ele Shaman: It makes a button that I’m usually free to press when I need to into a button that is highly specific in the conditions I want to use it in. For Voltaic Blaze, it’s apparently conceptualized to invest a whopping 3(!) talent points to reduce the cooldown of the ability to a level where the tension I described gets reduced to a manageable level. I want to be clear: This is not a solution. It merely introduces yet another dimension of choice where no option feels good.

It is certainly something players would get used to as they figure out which of the two bad options is the worse one. But sacrificing player agency on the altar of button pruning is a choice I would personally like to see revisited.

b.) Call of Fire. In the time since I originally wrote the outline for this post, Fire Elemental has been remedied as an active ability and is now fully baked into Ascendance. While this does take care of the core issue I previously had with this (investing a point into Fire Elemental to then lose access to the button as soon as I specc into Ascendance), it is yet another heavy-handed fix. Instead of revisiting the role of Fire Ele and how its synergy with the newly introduced Voltaic Blaze ability could be steered towards straight forward and engaging gameplay, Fire Elemental was simply removed as an ability. The synergy between Ascendance applying Flameshocks and Fire Elemental making those more powerful is straight forward and a welcome addition. However, taking away access to Fire Ele outside of that is just unnecessary in my opinion.

  1. With many proccs and effects being taken away, the rotation stands to become extremely monotonous without any events to break it up.

Currently, Ele Shaman has a number of different talents that trigger proccs. While some of these, like Deeply Rooted Elements, can cause some frustration with players feeling like it’s feast of famine or that they need to get lucky proccs to perform (I want to be clear that it is not as random as it may seem and you do not need good proccs to perform), others like Icefury and Aftershock, serve a welcome moment to moment break in the rotation.*
The Midnight iteration of Ele offers only a skeleton of this gameplay experience. Depending on our talent choices, we could well end up in a scenario where our rotation ends up in an extremely monotonous state of pressing Lavaburst on cooldown, spending maelstrom when available and filling the rest of the time with Lightning Bolts outside of cooldowns. Now, this may be due to my own biases, but I fail to see how this would constitute rewarding or engaging gameplay.


I want to be frank here for a moment as a player who loves the game and this specc in particular: Right now it feels like every opportunity to reduce complexity in the specialization has been used to take the easy way out. There are positive changes, such as Voltaic Blaze being introduced. But as it stands right now, it looks to me like the developers have yet to find a way to reduce the complexity of Ele Shaman without reducing the specc as a whole.


The illusion of innovation

Lastly, I want to address a trend among the “new” things and talents Midnight introduces. **Quite a few systems are currently just a re-introduction of things and effects that had been taken away previously.** Our first Apex talent node is the exact same 35% overload damage increase that had previously been taken away during a round of dev notes. Our tierset granting an additional charge of Stormkeeper upon cast is frankly a farce, considering that the number of charges the ability gives has apparently been reduced from 2 to 1 on a baseline.

This paired with five (!) talents in our specc tree that do nothing in terms of gameplay and are only flat stat increases, makes the changes to Ele Shaman during Midnight development so far look very underwhelming and honestly quite uninspired.

This also plays into the changes to the Farseer Hero Talent tree. The decision to base this tree on Stormkeeper of all things, an ability that ostensibly is one of the signature abilities for the Stormbringer Hero Talent tree, seems to follow the pattern of taking the easiest solution that comes to mind.

I hope that this feedback, one sided as it is at times, helps in the development of a vision for Ele Shaman that fulfills the goals outlined by the dev notes without ending up as the husk of a specc that currently is as much fun as it has ever been for many players.

9 Likes

Haven’t been able to test too much yet, as the servers have been a bit iffy today. Initial impressions playing around with Ele in some basic world content:

Voltaic Blaze as a replacement for Magma Totem applying flameshock to multiple targets seems interesting, but it’s notably annoying that it both replaces flame shock and has a longer cooldown. The fact that it takes another 2 talent points to end up with a cooldown that’s still longer than base flameshock just feels bad?

Edit - removed a section that was incorrect/missed a relocated talent.

8 Likes

Yeah they really gutted these specs. No stone bulwark, Icefury and Frost Shock, Stormkeeper has 1 charge?!?!

7 Likes

This is from the PvE side of things and just a cursory take to get some thoughts out there. I’ve been up all night sick so hopefully it makes sense.

Class tree- Still super boring and uninteresting. There are a few useful talents that are basically required, but so many filler talents that are better than nothing or super niche talents that aren’t used 99% of the time.

Then there are the basic QoL talents that frankly anger me to have to take because they should be basic functionality. Case in point, Therazane’s Resilience. This is basic functionality that earth shield should have, especially for enhancement. Trying to track charges of it mid fight is annoying and if you’re using it on someone else it’s even harder, so having it not use up charges is great but should be how the ability works to begin with.

The capstones are all absolutely awful as capstones, even more so if you’re enhancement. Nature’s swiftness? Pretty much useless for enhancement. Totemic Surge, words can’t express how awful this is as a capstone, at best this should be T2. Can’t speak to resto, but Ele and Enhancement use totems so rarely that having 5s off them isn’t particularly powerful. It’s basically useful for cap totem and wind rush(Better than nothing). Instinctive Imbuements, IMO this is completely useless beyond the QOL, which again should be baseline. Why is it useless? When tuning passes are done it’s going to be assumed that the 3% agility is taken, meaning that it’s essentially an empty talent. If you remove that talent, shamans would be balance exactly the same, making it a horrible talent. Even if we pretend the 3% is good, having a passive as a capstone is so underwhelming and disappointing. Even the QoL isn’t worth a capstone slot, it just save the tiny hassle of casting everything.

Why is there still several talents that are useless for enhancement? This has been an issue since the new talent trees were implemented. Make them useful for ALL specs.

Forced to take chain heal to get earth shield. Chain heal is useless for ele/enh unless something has changed.

Tremor totem, rarely if ever used since most fears can either be interrupted or avoided so you don’t plan for failure.

Poison totem- the precedent has now been set that any super important to clear debuffs will just be made into magic(see S3 curses being made into magic lowering the usefulness of our cleanse Spirit), making this even more of a rare pick. Even if you take it it’s a 2min cooldown so it doesn’t feel super useful when fighting mobs that poison constantly since it’s always on cooldown.

Hex and related talent- Why are these near the bottom of the tree? These are rare picks due to them being very niche

Overall the class tree is just awful. It honestly feels like it was made specifically for resto. Elemental gets a few more benefits due to being a caster like resto and enhancement gets basically nothing besides some required utility. There is just absolutely nothing exciting or iconic in the class tree. You’ve removed everything that was good in them. Thunderstorm was fun and useful, but it’s gone. Ancestral guidance was fantastic both for survivability and group utility and it was removed due to ascendance. There is nothing in the class tree that I’m stoked about taking or feel impactful to playstyle.

Enhancement - Given that part of this whole expansion thing was pruning/simplifying, why do we still have lightning bolt and chain lightning? These could be easily combined to do full damage to the first target and then chain and do less. While some things were pruned, I don’t feel like the overall number of buttons required for enhancement has been lowered by any meaningful amount

Elemental(just off talent tree)- so you nerfed ascendance, which it needed, but then tied fire elemental to it? So now it’s still op and required? Given that elementals are only good IF you take all the other elemental talents, it’s super annoying that you have to take call of fire to get the other ascendance talent. So you either get a lackluster talent OR are forced into several other talents. The elemental talents all feel bad to take because elementals are on long cooldowns.

Again lightning bolt+Chain lightning to reduce buttons

Stormkeeper- why is this still not instant?

Voltaic Blaze- too far down the tree for what is a basic necessity to make the spec work. Given how many talents we have for flame shock, this needs to be higher.

Elemental I just feel like doesn’t have any fun or exciting talents. Voltaic blaze is about the most exciting thing beside ascendance and I hate being tied to a 3min cooldown.

11 Likes

Will do a write up on Elemental later today, but not using Frost Shock in a rotation is ok, but having to talent into it to get an instant cast tag with a spell that isn’t required for your rotation or needed for another spell ie Flame Shock or Voltaic Blaze just feels super bad. Granted the Class Tree has so many useless talents and pathways that it feels like someone just picked them up and threw them on a menu and let them fall where they are. But I’ll post later tonight after more playing, if it’s up.

2 Likes

Enhancement PVE first impressions. Overall the spec feels like a massive improvement over TWW, but I have some criticisms

  • Feels weird that Chain Lightning and Lightning Bolt are 2 different buttons for Enhancement. It would be very easy to merge these two into a single ability by having Chain Lightning be a passive talent that adds cleave damage to Lightning Bolt (but not Tempest). Chain Lightning is an optional talent so you could always talent out of it if you really wanted a pure single target ability for some reason.
  • Both hero talent trees make you want to use Ascendance over Doom Winds. If Oversurge (Totemic) and Descending Skies (Stormbringer) are supposed to work on Doom Winds, then the tooltip should be updated.
  • It is possible to make a build with zero cooldowns, all rotational buttons and procs. This may cause issues in the future with encounter/class design. I think Doom Winds or Sundering should be moved up into the previous tiers so Enhancement always has access to at least one cooldown, similar to Summon Demonic Tyrant, Avenging Wrath, Boomstick, Berserk, Dragonrage, Pillar of Frost etc.
  • Stormbringer is very clearly all about lightning and it has a very strong identity with great visual effects - it feels great. I’m not sure what the identity of Totemic is supposed to be. It just feels like Enhancement+. If it is supposed to be all about totems (as the name implies) then why are so many of the talents about Sundering and weapon enhancements and Lava Lash? It needs a more focused identity.
  • With the removal of Primordial Wave and Ashen Catalyst being reworked, there is no real gameplay payoff to spreading Flame Shock. Voltaic Blaze on demand is great but Enhancement already spreads Flame Shock with Lava Lash, and Fire Nova as a proc off Voltaic Blaze doesn’t feel good. Perhaps Fire Nova could return as an active ability as a choice node with Voltaic Blaze
  • Hot Hand is the only 2 point talent in its section, feels like a punishment for playing Totemic
  • Why does Stormbind exist? Does any other DPS spec have a non-throughput talent in their spec tree?
  • Enhancement does not have enough talents to choose from, and that makes the choices not very meaningful. There are only 16 possible points to spend after the 1st gate, while most other specs have 19+. Some of these talents are core to the spec (Raging Maelstrom + Overflowing Maelstrom) or Stormbind (see above) further limiting how many meaningful choices you have. There are only 13 possible points to spend after the 2nd gate, while most other specs have 15+. I’m not suggesting every spec should have the same number of talent points nodes, but having so few is definitely a problem.
5 Likes

ELEMENTAL PVE FEEDBACK

So far we have some pretty good changes, especially the removal of Deeply Rooted Elements and Echoes of the Great Sundering. For the most part, it’s great to see a renewed emphasis on “Fire vs. Lightning Builds” but there are numerous talents that are total duds. The rotation with this rework is at best, overly simple, and at worst, sloppy. My experience so far in the beta has been absolutely drowning in Maelstrom and feeling as though i cannot spend it quick enough without ignoring higher priority abilities… which is a problem that has plagued Ele quite a bit in the past. I think that some numbers tuning around Maelstrom generation and Maelstrom-spender interactions would help with this. But furthermore, there are some things that need some extra attention:

Voltaic Blaze: this ability sounds great on paper, but the removal of guaranteed lava surges from Primordial Wave makes it feel a bit messy. Often times it will be preferable to sit on a lava surge charge while waiting for voltaic blaze to come off cooldown, creating a somewhat annoying dead spot in the rotation. Giving the ability a 100% chance to grant lava surge on cast would go a long way in smoothing the rotation, incentivizing more constant weaving of lava burst to buff abilities with Master of the Elements. If this means Voltaic Blaze needs a slightly longer cooldown, this is fine, because the short cd on the ability means that our rotation very constantly has numerous abilities butting heads for priority and makes it a bit messy, as well as flooding us with Maelstrom.

Fire Elemental: This ability is a complete dud now. The investment in talent points to buff elementals is not worth it in any way just for a slight fire damage bonus every 2/3 minutes, and the Flame Shock extension component has been completely nullified by the existence of Voltaic Blaze. Furthermore, 2 minute Ascendance will likely be preferable to run with the removal of Deeply Rooted Elements, and locking that talent behind something as negligible as Fire Elemental feels quite bad. This ability needs some kind of buff or rework.

Farseer Impressions: As it stands right now, Stormkeeper feels very bad for summoning ancestors. It’s not inherently a bad idea, but the big issue is the unpredictability of its cooldown. Offering From Beyond should simply reduce the cd of Stormkeeper by 15 seconds, that way we can get the total CD of the ability down to 30 seconds which allows us to easily sync the ability with Ancestral Guidance (which is what we are currently used to with Primordial Wave) and makes our burst damage profile more predictable and satisfying to play. On top of this, Farseer simply needs better AoE scaling (like some sort of splash damage from ancestor casts) and some form of scaling with Elemental Overloads in order for it to be competitive with Stormbringer.

Stormbringer Impressions: This spec is still looking just fine in AoE situations, and the rework to Tempest is great for retaining the sort of “Maelstrom-cycling” playstyle that DRE provided, but it has one glaring problem that has persisted throughout TWW: Lightning Rod spreading. This is slightly better now with the removal of Echoes, but Tempest should be updated to use the same Lightning Rod rules as Earthquake (applying it to a nearby target if used on a target that already has an active Lightning Rod) so that players are not incentivized to be constantly target swapping in AoE, or relying on macros. Otherwise, Stormbringer feels pretty good.

FINALLY, PLEASE TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT APEX TALENTS!!!: Our capstone apex talent, “Elemental Overload damage increased by 35%,” is very uninspired. Not only does it have no interesting visual or thematic implications (as many other class’s apex talents do), but it doesn’t affect our rotation at all. On top of that, this talent literally already exists in the spec tree as Echo Chamber and it is just selling overload damage back to us that was nerfed out of our kit already. But the WORST thing about this talent is that it massively favors Stormbringer over Farseer. If the talent is not going to be changed, then Farseer needs some sort of buff or rework to provide competitive damage with Stormbringer, as Farseer provides pretty much no scaling with overloads while Stormbringer scales quite heavily with them. This really needs some extra attention.

Overall the direction of Elemental is looking pretty good, but this handful of issues really needs to be addressed. Hopefully other Elemental mains agree with my takes here.

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