Please read the post before responding. I even included a TLDR and EDIT for clarification. I’ll post it here.
yes we can, after we delete tracer and genji
2 Likes
This can be attributed to ana and lucio at the time being overnerfed and moira didn’t exist yet so you only choice of a main healer who was still viable?
Mercy.
She wasn’t op she was just the only one left that can do the job.
but hey the rework totally didn’t instantly make her a must pick for well over a year and they never thought to buff the still underpowered other supports until recently which then they overdid it again and nerfed mercy for no particular reason.
Their questionable balancing has been causing issues since the start.
We’ve also been told time and time again by people that mercy was fine each and every time mercy was nerfed for the past year but this doesn’t seem to ever actually stand as soon after she sees new changes.
She obviously isn’t fine.
Even the statistics we have available to us show this.
2 Likes
I’d rather be nano genji bladed for an hour than have to debate with forum mercys for an hour.
This is not specific to Mercy. Blizzard always has to save face after a balance change/rework so they always say they’re in a good spot right now (e.g. Symmetra).
Not sure exactly what you mean by this, Mercy’s pickrate is still one of the highest and she’s still played in top tiers (she was even used in the OW World Cup).
It’s true that these two things were happening simultaneously, but even if Lucio and Ana weren’t nerfed into the ground, a 5man res was such a strong ability that you HAD to run a mercy. That’s where I got most of my mercy hours from, the seasons where if the enemy team had a mercy, your team HAD to have a mercy to counter otherwise the team with the mercy wins. A 5man res is huge, I don’t know how you can argue that it’s not an extremely strong ability – the ability to negate hard fought deaths often won by the enemy team burning ultimates.
Agreed. I personally think Mercy should have 60HPS at all times (even outside of Valk) just to keep her balanced with the new added heroes etc. But that point is applicable to every hero. As new heroes are introduced with new utilities and strengths, other heroes will have to be balanced to accommodate the new dynamic introduced by hero buffs/nerfs/reworks and introductions.
k, go play the game then
OMg dude what’s your problem with flankers
1 Like
LOL yeah I thought he was memeing but apparently he’s serious. There are so many people without a high school degree commenting on these forums that I forget people don’t realize when someone is joking – even if they’re saying something ridiculous like:
No, you said mass ress was game breaking because:
No aim, no LOS, instant ress entire team, negate enemy ults used before, everything you mentioned she had since the start of the game. No where you mention invul was an issue or what makes mass ress a game breaking ult.
Also from the posts ive seen from Mercy players that want mass ress back they all agree that invul shouldnt be a part of it, and that it should have been removed. So not sure how this can ever be a part of your argument.
I havent seen Mercy players arguing to bring back the ‘‘game breaking ult’’ of mass ress+invul, they just want mass ress, the part that now acording to you isnt game breaking.
This is why its relevant:
Theres plenty of mega threads with changes to make Mercy balanced. They have existed since the rework happened. Just one of Titaniums threads has over 7k posts.
Are we really surprised theres a fair share of Mercy players out there frustrated at their constructive feed back being repeatedly ignored since the rework, and of a solid year of being bullied and mocked on the forums (how many forum threads have we seen about skilless Mercy players deserving to be nerfed into the ground, how many were arguing Mercy shouldnt even be viable past gold at best?, not to mention the ingame hate).
Writting a pretty agressive post to ‘‘inspire Mercy mains to keep posting constructive feed back’’ after a year of 10s of thousands of constructive posts being ignored and treated like dirt, cause some of them are frustrated and making posts that arent constructive, seems at the very least disingenuous.
8 Likes
Here’s the problem with your thread as a whole: This statement.
Essentially you’re addressing a specific group of people, but you can’t say which, how many or who it is exactly. You simply leave that to self-identification.
But at the same time, you’re oversimplifying the concept. You’re turning “Mercy mains” into a buzz word that has now been so frequently overused and overexploited that people’s reaction to your thread is just going to be instinctively negative because they know from the moment you said “Mercy mains” in a negative context, it was just going to be unsupported claims.
There is literally no point in addressing general statements. The devil is in the details. For example:
- I’m a Mercy main.
- I love the changes that have come recently, especially the new buff.
- I feel like Mercy is a capable main healer again now since she gets her ult much faster and it’s strong enough now to actually heal during heavy pushes, but she’s no longer so overpowering I don’t have any reason to switch to Ana or Moira.
- I don’t care about Reddit.
- Reddit is full of circlejerking.
- The problem with Reddit is that because you can downvote threads, things that are unpopular gets erased from view and therefore you only see mainstream opinions.
- Mainstream opinions are an appeal to authority and not an argument in itself. They are frequently factually wrong and misinformed.
- But at the same time, this forum platform has the big issue that being controversial is the best way to get a big thread going. You were never going for a healthy discussion. You wanted replies more than you wanted to present a strong argument.
3 Likes
Why not? Most of players would love that.
I didn’t thank that the OP would manage to make himself even sillier after that train wreck of an opening post, but he has managed it admirably. What a condescending jerk.
7 Likes
I at least get why people would want Briggitte deleted because they suck at fighting her
Whoever complains about fighting against Mercy? Why would anyone want her deleted, just don’t play her lol
Because “she so unfair to play against” xd
You’re taking my words out of context and twisting them to fit your narrative. Let me correct you.
I’m sorry, haven’t slept in over 34 hours, I should have mentioned invuln, but since you knew which iteration of Mercy I was talking about, I thought (incorrectly on my part) that you knew invuln was included. When Mercy didn’t have invuln, she was F-tier because it was too difficult for her to res without dying, so I thought it was pretty obvious we were referring to Mercy with invuln. Thereafter, she was buffed to what I described “no aim, no LoS, can be pretty far from the team fight to use rez, invuln for herself and everyone she’s rezzing, negated the enemy’s ULT and hardfought team wipe.”
Yes, here is my quote below.
Please list 5 threads that all agree on that. Different mercy threads have different mercy rework ideas and the community is split on whether res should even be in the game at all – let alone mass rez.
LOL how did you jump to that conclusion? Everything I have said supports my contention that it is gamebreaking. You can’t just twist someone’s words – that aren’t even related to your argument – and then jump to “therefore I’m right.”
I agree with you there, I think Mercy is undertuned right now and needs a buff. Maybe back to 60HPS all the time (instead of just in valk) and maybe a bonus rez during Valk. But by the same hand, just because Mercy players are frustrated that doesn’t mean they have the right to dominate the forums, derail threads, and just generally act condescending and rude to others (examples GALORE in this thread alone). The hate to the mercy community is not justified because I don’t think general hate towards any group isn’t justified. But it’d also be incorrect to say that the hate towards forum mercys came out of nowhere. There are a lot of forum mercys that not only fit the stereotype, they perpetuate it (examples galore in this thread). I’ve had some pretty respectful actual debates on how to rework mercy, but I can count the number of times I’ve had a rational, logic-based argument with a forum mercy on one hand. Meanwhile, in just this thread you can see rampant entitlement, closed-mindedness, condescendion, and just general negativity which perpetuates the bad rep the mercy community gets. The mercy community would be taken more seriously if they stuck to rational, logical arguments instead of reverting to emotional ones and personal attacks.
I get that it’s frustrating, but that doesn’t give forum mercys a free pass to act like jerks to everyone. The only real way to have the devs balance mercy (and not be scared to actively try to buff/nerf abilities to balance her out) is if the mercy community wasn’t in a constant state of outrage. I mean forum mercys were complaining about her incoming 60HPS buff during Valk BEFORE IT EVEN WENT LIVE – BEFORE THEY EVEN TRIED IT. If you were a dev, wouldn’t you also feel like no matter what you do it’s lose-lose? Couple that with the fact that the mercy community isn’t united on ONE specific rework they want, instead, the mercy community all has different ideas on how to rework her. The devs have to consider not only the mercy community’s split opinions, but also how to balance her for the rest of the game and other heroes. It’s a tough balance to strike.
Not a disingenous post at all, as you can see by the amount of time I’m engaging in trying to keep this a rational, fact based dialogue between you and I (and even some aggressively defensive forum mercys). But ironically, the forum mercys in this thread did not read the OP and did exactly what I advised against – just blindly going in aggressively attacking someone instead of focusing on constructive criticism that considers what the devs have already said is and is not feasible.
Example: If your mom says you cannot drink coke because she thinks it’s unhealthy but lets you eat as much KFC as you want, you can make a million arguments about why coke isn’t as bad as KFC, how you can limit your coke intake, etc. etc. but if mom says you cannot drink coke because she thinks it’s bad (the devs are mom in this case) there’s no counterargument, now you just have to figure out how to convince your mom to let you drink offbrand coke by acknowledging what she found problematic about you drinking coke in the first place.
THAT’S LITERALLY ALL I’M SAYING.
It’s not passive aggressive. I’m calling you out on the things you wrote.
That’s not how this works. You made the claim, you need to produce the evidence.
You did not shoot anything down, you just made yet another claim that I may or may not believe.
So now it’s from a developer update? Didn’t you write he said that in some interview before?
But I do remember having a debate with you before, in which you also made claims about things the developers allegedly said; more specifically, you claimed they said Resurrect was overpowered when it was Mercy’s ultimate. When I asked you to provide evidence you eventually pasted two developer comments from patch notes which unfortunately were referring to Resurrect as her E ability.
Well, that was awkward. You see why I’m skeptical about just blindly believing you?
Speaking of me being skeptical…
Now, I’m really, really curious where you got this idea from.
4 Likes
All of this is a fair point and well taken – especially the part about *“the devil is in the details” and the kneejerk reaction some buzzwords receive.
However, on the note of making general claims that make assumptions about people,
I do take offense to this because (a) you have no reason to believe that and I repeatedly throughout this thread try to get the comments back on topic and (b) you are doing exactly what you said is problematic about my thread.
I’m also not trying to present a “strong argument” of any kind. I want some buffs for Mercy too. I’m saying that if the mercy community wants their input and suggestions to be taken seriously, they have to acknowledge the dev’s comments and move forward from there. Whining/complaining threads and constant negativity just makes the community seem entitled and are less likely to get a response from the devs. Also, I wanted to point out the lack of uniformity in what the mercy community is asking for. Some want mass rez back, some don’t. Some don’t think res should be in the game at all, some think a single res on “e” is fine. The community should get into agreement (similar to the Sym or Bastion commmunity) about exactly what the current issues are (“she’s unfun” is subjective and not an argument) AND provide feasible suggestions for how to fix it.
I think your final accusation was unfair, unwarranted, and perpetuates what I said above.
A. Your thread title is literally a clickbait intended to provoke people into clicking your topic.
B. I’m not stereotyping posters to generate views.
If you want people to listen to you, you need to present a strong argument. It’s like suggesting people, “I think you should go that way.” The person looks and you and asks, “Why?” You then shrug your shoulders, “I don’t have to present a reason.”
Everything in your original post just lacks that fundamental aspect. You go on to describing what you believe to be a huge problem, about how the Mercy community does this, about how the developers do that, but you’ve forgotten the fundamentals: the basic evidence to support your claim.
Imagine this: We both have extremely different views on “Mercy mains.” Therefore nothing you say about Mercy mains applies to my understanding of the situation. I think it’s an extremely small vocal minority you’re addressing that does not represent anyone, but you are boxing people together under the label of “Mercy mains” just the same.
For example, let’s say we put the code of conduct aside and you got the green light to name every poster you specifically want to address with this post. How many names could you list? 10? 20? How many out of the 40 million Overwatch accounts? How small a percentage are we talking? Is it the 0.0001% or the 0.00001%?
I think that’s an incredibly hypocritical response to being criticized for your reasoning skills when all you’re doing with this thread is criticizing other poster’s reasoning skills.
6 Likes
No need to be a condescending jerk. You clearly didn’t read the OP at all LOL. You just read the title and popped off. Here, I’ll include the TLDR and EDIT for clarity for you here:
You were passive aggressive. I wasn’t talking about one sentence in one comment, I’m talking about your tone in multiple comment exchanges.
Generally that’s true, but when the information is so widespread and you claim to be an expert on this topic, then it’s no longer on me to “let me google that for you.” You can choose to be blind to objective facts that occur – as you are now – that’s not my problem. If you do want to know what Papa Jeff said, it’s up to you to look it up. I don’t care either way.
Um…yes I did. You said, “Speaking of delegitimizing oneself, I find it curious that you cannot seem to remember when or where he supposedly made that statement, but do remember his precise choice of words. Convenient, isn’t it?”
I responded by saying I have a photographic memory and can remember words, but not necessarily the rabbit hole of mercy research I went down to find the video. It’s still up though somewhere so it shouldn’t be too hard to find. So that you don’t twist these words, I’ll requote exactly what I said:
Jesus christ this is why I don’t argue with forum mercys. LIKE YOU QUOTED ABOVE, LIKE I SAID ABOVE, I DO NOT REMEMBER HOW I FOUND THE VIDEO: I WAS RESEARCHING UPDATES ON MERCY SINCE I TOOK A BREAK FOR 5-6 SEASON FOR LAW SCHOOL. Since you said you did 1 google search and couldn’t find it, I gave some more suggestions for how to find a popular video. Here’s my direct quote:
Yes, and if you took the time to read those comments, you could see that just because the notes were about res on “e,” doesn’t mean that the comments didn’t mention that res was too strong AKA overpowered. I remember engaging in that debate with you, and you repeatedly weren’t reading the developer notes I googled and copied and pasted for you – just saying “no that’s res on ‘e’” without actually reading it to see if it applied.
Now do you see why I won’t google things for you?
So, like I said to you above, you don’t need to spoonfeed me google search results & dev updates on why this fact is untrue, it’s on me to educate myself about whether or not the chain beams decrease healing per target. Since I can’t remember where I heard that fact, I did some research and found on the old OW forum site (the closed one now) and Geoff did post a while ago that the chain beams just link to whoever is in line of sight and did not mention any dropoff. I also cannot find a single post saying there’s a dropoff when you link to more people. I cannot remember where I learned that fact, either someone in game told me this or I watched it in a video. Obviously, that information was wrong so I take responsibility for that fact I presented being incorrect. It’s good to know now that chain beam healing does not dropoff the more people you heal because I had been operating under that assumption since someone told me/maybe saw in a video. To be clear, you are right on that point and I was wrong. I actually appreciate the clarification because it’ll help me in-game.
Moving on to the next point, I fully stand by 100% that papa jeff used the word “um…passionate” to describe the mercy community. That for sure was in some kind of video spoken out of Papa Jeff’s mouth himself. I took the time to research a fact you pointed out to make sure my fact was correct, and figured out myself that it was wrong. I think if you want evidence of Papa Jeff saying mercy mains are “passionate,” then like me, it’s on you to educate yourself on a point you’re not clear about, especially when it’s an easy find and not my responsibility to google for you.
A. As I already mentioned in a comment above (really, please, can people start reading the actual post and comments before just shooting off random accusations) the title is a play off of all the “delete x hero/nerf x hero” posts that are abundant on the forums lately. I guess jokes don’t translate well to a community that, as you said, is already defensive because they don’t feel heard. However, just because you didn’t pick up on the joke doesn’t automatically mean that you can come to the conclusion that I made a “clickbait title to provke people and stereotype posters to generate views.” What on earth would I gain from that?
No, not really at all. It’s more like a group of people using one map fighting over which direction to go and me saying, “hey, it’s going to be more productive if we all agree on one route and go that way instead of all of us spreading out and not working as one cohesive team advocating for the same thing.” Just because I didn’t pick a specific route for the team to take – I don’t play enough Mercy that I feel justified in weighing in on exactly what buffs/nerfs need to be taken to balance not just Mercy as a hero, but Mercy in the context of the entire game – doesn’t mean that me blowing the whistle and saying, “hey, what we’re doing isn’t productive and is wasting time. Let’s focus on one issue at a time” is generic and not a strong argument.
Yes I did, in another thread. Here’s a quote and link to other thread for reference (I made the other thread before this one):
Ok, we can agree to disagree, but I am not boxing people together under the generic label of “mercy mains.” Even in my original post I say:
And in the comments frequently distinguish mercy mains from forum mercys. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read the original comment and replies before throwing out accusations.
Haven’t criticized reasoning skills, have criticized people not reading the original post or any reply comments and then firing off wild accusations from the hip, but didn’t attack anyone’s reasoning skills. So no, incorrect.
Also, by saying, “I think that’s an incredibly hypocritical response to being criticized for your reasoning skills when all you’re doing with this thread is criticizing other poster’s reasoning skills” you realize how ironic that is right? You realize you yourself have become the hypocrite especially because I have not been criticizing reasoning skills?
Wrong. I read all of it. It’s dumb and you should be ashamed of your poor trolling skills, backtracking edit or not.
4 Likes
I have one edit, and I labeled it edit. If you actually did read the thread, you would know this. Citing it here again in hopes you’ll read it: