Can we delete mercy from the game?

General Discussion
87

It just doesn’t work that way. The thread title is a massive part of the discussion’s health. You’re always going to invite responses to it into your discussion. And your reply is littered with evidence of that behavior: You’re constantly doing damage control and asking people not to address your thread title.

Here’s the other thing that I really wanted to pick up as well since it went over your head the first time. You need evidence to support your claims.

You keep talking about a “community.” What is the community? In order for there to be a community, people need to, you know, communicate. Mercy posters do not communicate together, nor do any other posters for that matter. Because it’s a forum and it’s not possible for a community to thrive here without violating the code of conduct by posting direct messages to other posters.

Why does this point matter? Because one of your suggestions was for “the Mercy community to come together,” but again there needs to be a platform for communication for any form of organization to happen.

This partly hits the root of the problem.

The problem is the fact that threads drown by the minute and in order for a discussion to stay afloat it needs to get a lot of responses, and the easiest way to get responses is to say controversial mainstream opinions.

Therefore you get a forum that gets flooded with the same opinions all the time because posters know that saying “Mercy should get mass res back” is a guaranteed way for your thread to survive. Just like you knew posting “delete mercy” in your thread title would guarantee your thread’s growth.

But this problem is not limited to Mercy and it is a forum structure problem. And the point to understand here is that you don’t need to box people together to solve the problem. But by boxing them together, you’ve destroyed the chance of a constructive discussion.

Side note

I didn’t want to include this in my response because it’s arguing semantics and it won’t further the debate, but:

You’re literally criticizing their ability to reason while boxing them together as a “toxic community.”

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88

No

89

deletemercy?..oh i can have fun with this one

  • you mean mercy 1.0 that deleted any planning, combos, and gameplay that happened in the previous minute?

  • mercy camp would argue that that would make her unfun…and that that is not the change she needs…

  • she was already deleted with most recent healer buffs…shes actually perfectfly fine and the meta just doesnt suit her…but that means shes BROKEN!!!

  • would that mercy still have valkyrie?

  • devs dont listen

  • delete mercy megathread

90

I guess you missed the whole thing with 200.000 posts long chain of megathreads where things were discussed in a constructive manner… until some Mercy haters started to massflag it 24/7. Or how people like Titanium and others make researched, constructive threads with a great debate only to be banned from the forums after being targeted by the report mob…

Mercies don’t come together to discuss things because we are not allowed to.
And even if we could, there will never be an unanimous decision. We all prefer different things. Even the most broken mess of a heroes have their die hard fans who want then to stay that way - as we know from other games.

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91

WHAT ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT, OH MY GOOOOOOOD
Where have you read this information. Just tell me WHERE. Because Blizzard never posted anything like that in any patch notes. Valkyrie gives the same amount of healing for each person, as long as they are close to each other. Period. I have at least 200 hours on Mercy’s Valkyrie version, and they never changed the fact that she has the same HPS for each person the chained beams are attached.
I guess you are the one who really don’t understand her kit. Because after what you said, honestly… Get better. Study the character. Valkyrie feels braindead because it’s pretty much the same thing you do outside of ult, but a little bit enhanced. It’s not like I can’t do things with Valkyrie, it’s just that Res as an ult felt like something exclusive to her ult, special. And now is just an undo button.
h.ttp://prntscr.com/llnxun I’d recommend studying the character and have an actual knowledge before criticizing it and criticize a player with informations that don’t exist. :relaxed: Overwatch Wiki is a nice option.

Yet, you are doing the same thing you do the outside of her kit, except this time you don’t have to think about who you are healing or boosting since everybody is connected.

Oh, because as a support character that really is important. I’d rather be able to have more supportive tools than unlimited ammo, cause Battle Mercy shouldn’t be my primary option.

Just read:

And if you think Old Res was only about Mercys hiding I guess you really didn’t play at the time. Hiding was really bad since everybody on your team would respawn in a vulnerable spot. Tempo Resses were better since you could keep a fight going on, and as we saw with the rework, tempo resses can be more powerful than the old Huge Resses, since it annulates picks and it doesn’t restart the fight.
The problem now with Res is not the fact that is solo target, but because it’s on cooldown. And Valkyrie doesn’t feel so different or engaging comparing to the rest of her kit. It was toned down because of cooldown Res. I’d love to see improvements to the ultimate, to make it more special and not just ‘‘do the same thing you were doing but now easier and flying’’.

Tell me that when you actually understand the character instead of creating informations and numbers about it, okay paw?

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92

Straight up false. If I wanted to do damage control, I’d change the title. I’ve repeated multiple times that my title is a play on all of the other serious forum titles asking for players to be deleted/nerfed and how ridiculous it is. An eye for an eye mentality is not good for the game. Again, please take 2 minutes to read the original post before flinging around wild accusations.

Yeah, I wonder where the stereotype that mercy mains are hostile, defensive, and impossible to have a logical, unemotional conversation without insults comes from. I have yet to throw an unsubstantiated insult at you or other forum mercys in this thread. This is where the reputation comes from.

Really? Then what would you call the Mercy mega thread? What would you call the most upvoted post of all time – Titanium’s mercy suggestion thread? What would you call a subbreddit – /r/mercymains – if not a community?

Doesn’t even need to necessarily be a platform. One person can post an actual, suggestive and feasible mercy change. Others can add their commentary to suggest tweaks/changes to the original suggestion (which I have done). The problem is that people are all over the map and aren’t open-minded to change so we could have some of the best arguments in the world for a rework that doesn’t include rez, but there are still closed-minded people who will not be happy with mercy until mass rez is introduced. Mercy mains should be able to have a logical conversation about rez without it being derailed into “I don’t feel impactful anymore” and resorting to subjective emotions.

OK so either post a controversial thread topic and be accused of

Or don’t post a controversial title and get no views. Pick one.

For the third time, I am retyping the same words. My title is a play on all the forum posts right now arguing for “delete x hero” (right now Tracer and Genji are on the hot plate; before that it was Brig and Doomfist). It’s a wild accusation to say “you knew posting ‘delete mercy’ in your thread title would guarantee your thread’s growth,” no actually I didn’t. In fact, if I knew that all I would get is forum mercys derailing this thread into arguing about chain beams and other irrelevant topics, I would have never made it in the first place. I asked in the original post for this not to be derailed into this kind of argument, but I forgot that most people don’t bother to read even a short original post before firing off with their own opinoins and wild accusations.

I agree with you on the first part that there is a forum structure problem at work here (especially considering the other post I made). But I disagree with your second contention because my post IS specifically about one community, the mercy community, and I don’t know how anyone can make a post about a specific community without being accused of “boxing people together.” It also doesn’t help that in this thread, forum mercys have proven my point that it is impossible to have a logic based, rational, non-emotional discussion without it sidewinding into a “defend mercy at all costs even though that’s not what the post is about but I don’t know that because I didn’t read the original post.”

SIDENOTE

Pointing out a trend specific to a community does not equal criticizing ability to reason? What LOL. I pointed out an objective point. A specific community doesn’t get a reputation out of thin air, it’s based on something (although it’s a stereotype, so it’s never gonna be 100% true). Stereotypes don’t come out of nowhere.

Also, interesting that you decided to quote that clip because all I am doing there is explaining exactly what I find to be the issue: something you specifically said in your comment I should do to produce better forum response results. Instead, it just triggered a lot of forum mercys to attack with wild, unsubstantiated claims instead of responding to the topic at hand.,

94

Incorrect and that quote was taken out of context. Please just search “titanium” in this thread and see how many times I mention Titanium and how useful his mega thread was.

Exactly!!! I’ve seen a lot of great ideas (even outside of Titanium’s threads) that instead of having people respond with constructive criticism/suggestions to tweak the original proposed rework/rebalance are just filled with defensive forum mercies (stole that from you haha it’s good) who attack each other instead of coming together to mix ideas, have a back and forth dialogue, and come up with an optimal, viable, fun mercy that the entire mercy community can compromise and agree on. If the mercy community were less divided and worked more as a team, I think the devs would pay more attention to one idea supported by a majority of the community rather than a mass diversity of ideas with people in the community scattered in their opinion of which proposal is best. That’s even in the TLDR of my original post.

98

I’m really starting to get tired of arguing semantics with you. Mostly because it’s just me quoting the exact passages where you did it and it just brings the discussion to a halt.

Respones that say "Please ignore what I said in my title, read this instead." a.k.a. Damage Control.

Also, I won’t even begin to pretend to understand the level of hypocriticism in you taking issue with the tone of responses in a reply like this:

When you constantly post replies like:

Blatant flaming that could actually get you silenced and suspended if people flagged you for it.

You’re constantly provocative, which means you invoke provocative replies. This ties into what I said about promoting healthy discussions: If you want to criticize the tone of your discussion, you need to set the precedent. You can’t demonstrate the behavior you criticize and then act like you’re above it. That is literally the definition of being hypocritical.

A mega thread.

And mega threads are instinctively bad because the discussion does not go anywhere because the conclusions that would advance the debate are simply lost in the sheer number of replies, which the forum itself doesn’t even support (page crashes start to happen around +5k replies).

I would call a Discord server a community. I would call a town or a city a community. Any place where you can consistently interact with the same people is a community. A forum can be a community, but it requires private messages and more consistent contact between posters. Otherwise organization is simply not possible and it simply stays a “forum.”

Let’s round it up with an example since we’re talking about posting in general. This was a thread that I submitted a while back:

It’s not using stereotypes. It is using evidence such as statistics to support the claims. The main goal of the thread is simply to target an opinion, much like your thread, but in a constructive manner.

This is not a means to gloat or say it’s the perfect thread, but since the main point of our discussion is the validity of my criticism of your clickbait and provocation for thread fuel, it is an anecdotal example.

You can tackle controversial topics as long as you support your claims with evidence, at which point people are left with only two choices: either challenge your evidence or build on it—as you see in the nature of the thread’s replies.

This will be my last time defending this point, so if you still do not agree, we’ll simply have to agree to disagree. I bumped your other thread, and it is a damn shame it’s not getting more attention. But as I said before, that is the real root of the problem. The forum structure is simply terrible.

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99

Hi, Mercy Main here (shocker I know!) Im happy with where she is now :slight_smile: She’s in a great position shes appropriately balanced :smiley:

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to be fair the crux of this post. The devs “SAID” is about as solid as quicksand at the moment. The team changes their minds all the time. We wont see a revert as as back to exact pre rework but we can see changes that put the character close to that state. Look at other heroes who were put back towards states before nerfs and buffs.

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101

I’ve stopped doing that a long time ago. Reading their comments in this thread (and the thread itself) and how they are snapping at everyone who brings a logical rebuttal which disproves them, pretty much confirms this. :smile:

~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls :blue_heart:

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If only those Mercy mains who quit the game would also quit the forums.

103

Flight actually enhances the use of GA but most people who are against Valkyrie have admitted to just flying to the skybox and basically being AFK, which is indicative of their own playstyle and not the actual ability itself. Gotta get that confirmation bias in, after all.

Just because a portion of belligerent Mercy players openly admit to playing her wrong doesn’t mean that’s the intention of the design. That’s just people admitting they are bad ,stubborn, or both.

104

And you figured the best way to achieve this was to call a lot of Mercy mains whiny (whether there is truth to that or not)?

You know, I agree that there is a lack of productive discussion and there is a reiteration of ideas that have already been turned down by Blizzard. There is an outspoken displeasure and plenty of complaints coming from the Mercy community. But over the past 4 months I think I’ve seen almost as many threads complaining about people complaining (such as this thread), as if that was suddenly going to help facilitate open discussion. What it does is to underpin that open discussion is impossible, because whenever there is an attempt to highlight problems and come up with suggestions on how to fix it there is always someone who calls every productive attempt whiny or entitled, etc. There are too many Mercy-player haters in this community for there to ever be any productive discussion.

I am not trying to claim the vocal forum-Mercies are innocent, not at all. It’s just that the community is polarized and there is no common ground it seems. In the words of the alien in independence day “No peace”.

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Great. I still don’t know what comment(s) you are referring to.

I consider “widespread information” to be something that’s easily accessible. If I google any of your suggestions I get a ton of results that are not at all what I’m looking for. For example, here’s the top result I get when searching for “passionate” “mercy” “jeff kaplan”:

( Jeff Kaplan ): We had to render like a seventh hero and we’re totally optimized … We put that Riptire in, and you used to be able to like Mercy beam the tire, and … As long as the team is passionate about it we try and make it happen.

All the other results on first page are similar; they include all the keywords, but not in context with each other.

You keep repeating yourself how easy it supposedly is to find it myself and make all kinds of suggestions how to find it, but none of them turn up the desired results. If it’s so easy to find, I don’t understand why you are so reluctant to save both of us the time and just paste the actual link?

Oh, so I’m a “forum mercy” now? That’s interesting.

I can’t either, especially since your “tutorial” doesn’t turn up the result it supposedly should.

Here’s where I’m at:

  • I know about the video the OWL casters made but that video is not related to any statements made by Jeff or anyone on the dev team.
  • I know about Jeff talking to Emongg on his stream. I don’t recall them talking about Mercy though.
  • I know about Jeff talking to Fran on her stream. On that stream, he said “We are looking for Mercy to be balanced, and a lot of the feedback we get is very emotional in one direction or the other - where they are not gonna be happy untill she is either the best or the worst hero.”
  • I know about Geoff talking to Emongg on his stream. Geoff mentioned how they felt Mercy would be in a good spot after the buff went live and that they have no current plans for another rework, I believe.

So, if any of these streams supposedly includes the quote you mentioned, which one is it? Can you at least narrow it down?

Do I really have to dig out those posts again? They were about Rez on E. If you insist I can even point you to the specific patches they were from. Why would they even mention the power level of pre-rework Resurrect in patch notes months after removing it from the game?

So now that you know this, does it change your perception of that specific aspect of Valkyrie? Because quite a lot of the Valkyrie complaints have been about how it doesn’t make a difference which teammate you are targetting.

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106

Hey, thanks for contributing to the post. This part of my OP was dedicated to open-minded mercy mains like you:

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Some quit because of changes that may or may not be undone or redone in the future. By leaving the forums they also give away any chance of affecting future changes that may possibly get those players to return to the game. But thanks for making it clear that only people who agree with Blizzard’s current vision (which I would argue is different from when the game launched) for the game matter.

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108

Hey, you just copy and pasted the exact comment I made to you in another thread.

0/10 creativity.

Also, saying you don’t take me seriously is one of the greatest compliments you could have granted me. You’re one of the most irrational people I’ve ever had the misfortune of meeting.

Sincerely,
a Lover of facts, logical, and rational conversation

109

This is hardly unique to Mercy mains, but okay.

I find it funny that people call them a cult and a hive mind, but then turn around and criticize them for all not wanting the same thing. It’s almost like people have different feelings about what they enjoy in a character. Shocking.

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Not really. Sym mains, bastion mains, Sombra mains are all undertuned/underpowered heroes who have a collective community who can have rational, unemotional conversations about balance changes to their hero. The mercy community can’t even take a post about “let’s focus on constructive criticism” without derailing it into personally attacking me, the OP.