[Analysis] "Balance" Why WWrend nerf?

Disclaimer: Contains sarcastic language for comical purposes.

Ok, all you balance and table lovers out there. I went out of my way to show something so obvious with charts and tables. Apparently nerfing for the sake of balance seems fine from the perspective of these people. So here is my proposition:

I looked at my Era 11 analysis and collated all the clears together and calculated the normal distributions and means of all the clears along with all 7000 people’s clears. Those poor souls, 60-70% of them will not even pass 120. What a shame.

Here is a table of the averages

Class Mean Grift Average Paragon
Barbarian 110 2574
Wizard 124 3901
Necromancer 108 3513
Monk 109 2932
Demon Hunter 120 4083
Crusader 114 3437
Witch Doctor 113 2896
7000 Players 114 3319

Now if this is not clear enough, the normal distribution of those clears. There you will see a big, thick red line. That is the distribution of the 7000 clears of all players across all classes. This graph tells you that if you want to consistently solo 120s, go with demon hunter and if you want to consistently clear +124, go with Wizard. These have the highest probability for clearing these levels. How about the other loser classes? Their probability for clearing at this GR range is close to zero. Why would you use swords while you could shoot arrows and lightning and stuff. Pffffff.

Action packed quality game experience, very nice..


Here is the cumulative normal distribution chart:


Note: The Y axis shows the % of players clearing the designated GR levels and below on X axis. For example if you look at 120 GR level:

  • About 83% of all the players playing the game is below 120.

  • 99% of all the barbarian and monk clears are below 120 GR

  • 88% of all the crusader clears are below 120 GR

  • 50% of all the demon hunter clears are below 120 GR

  • 0% of all the wizard clears are below 120 GR (none)

  • On the other hand, the players clearing 125 and above are equal and less than 1% of the whole player base. And yet, why balance considering the very minority of the 1% group and their top clearing potential? This is illogical.

I guess this perspective is good enough to express the problem smirking here: either Demon Hunters and Wizards must be nerfed to oblivion or all the rest of the classes must be buffed sky high to match Wizards

Take a very good and deep look at these charts and you will see two nasty outliers, I mean not imaginary but factual outliers: Wizards and Demon Hunters. Look at those, look closely. If necessary zoom in, pinch your eyes and try to come up with some imaginary fiction. Nada. These two classes must be nerfed to oblivion for the sake of holy balance.

Now lets be the torchlight of balance and bring justice and equality to this land and Let’s balance the classes according to the red line where all the common peasants exist:

Class Ave. Paragon Ave. Bld. Nerf (-GR) Ave. Bld. Buff (+GR) Top Bld. Nerf Top Bld. Buff Nerfed Dmg Buffed Dmg
Wizards 3901 -10 GR x x x -80% x
Demon Hunters 4083 -6 GR x x x -61% x
Crusaders 3437 0 GR 0 GR x x 0% 0%
Witch Doctors 2896 x +1 GR x x x +17%
Barbarians 2574 x +4 GR x x x +87%
Monks 2932 x +5 GR x x x +119%
Necromancers 3513 x +6 GR -8 GR x -72% +156%

Note that I am not suggesting definite buff nerf values here. These values are flawed as different GRs cannot be compared in this manner. For this you have to refer to my other serious analysis post that is not this one. This is pure statistics and sarcasm

Note these are average buff and nerf values. Some passive agressive classes have weird builds that magically clears very high (140s) and at the same time with a very wide normal distribution curve. This is the manifestation of a poorly designed class with their over powered long cooldown skills that has less reliability compared to the in your face kind of attacks. So higher risk with higher returns kind of a slot machine to be precise ( I mean Necromancer). So for the sake of holy balance their top builds must be nerfed to oblivions’ side walls or their mechanics need to be fixed properly to address that weird distribution.

On the other hand, look at the distribution curves of Wizards and Demon hunters, they are like Rambo’s commando blade sticking around 120s and 125s.

Now, what happens if we apply the resulting holy balance, see below.


Holy mother of Jesus, " balance ". B A L A N C E . Even Anakin Skywalker could not bring balance initially but we can bring balance at around 114 GR level in this 7 years old game. Omg such a big achievement. World is safe now.

Now I am coming to those WW Rend barb OP OMG teen wave groups:

  • Even though WW barb were OP, which is not, it is not going to elevate the whole barbarian curve to wizard levels.
  • As you know, barbarian players are the only cool guys in these forums so they like to play more than 1 build.
  • To be precise we have many stickied main builds as you might observe on the main page of barbs. So just WW is not going to shift the whole power curve.
  • You don’t have to worry for losing your top DPS spot, so calm your horses.
  • No one will want WW barb as DPS because if you ever played a WW barb with Rend and AD, you would know that at 130s the moment you rend, it can cause severe lag like bending space and time and it feels like you just entered a black hole. Your PC will stop and you will have plenty of time to think of your life choices.

So end of discussion. WW Rend is where it should be. Any further discussion bears no fruit as your trolling attempts are too obvious. But who are we kidding, devs will probably be affected by your kind as they were in the past examples. So…

*Update: Yep, they nerfed the WWrend barb :clap: :clap: :clap:

“B A L A N C E”


So devs are trolled again and nerfed rend barb…


No they wont hear us out. Blizz only listening to trolls and haters. I guess we barbs should now ask for more nerfs, maybe then blizz will buff the barb. I mean, they are doing exactly the opposite what the barb community is asking for.


I can’t believe what I am reading in the Forums this morning, after all the past years and PTR’s that the Barbs have been reaching out to the Developers to make the WW build a contender for a DPS spot in the End Game has been dashed, slashed and smashed. What in the world are you thinking Dev’s?
Developers you still have time to make this right, fire up those “forges” of yours and fulfill the promises that have been made to the Barbarian community come true.


Apparently they outsourced their forges to trolls…


I already responded to this post in another thread. I consider the data analysis fundamentally flawed and the overall tone suboptimal.

My prior response in linked below.

Who else tired of dealing with this person?

Seriously enough with your agenda. You got it. Rend is nerfed. You guys asked -3GRs, devs gave you -7GRs. We knew this would happen. You did as well.

Do not play innocent now. And do not give me my analysis is wrong stuff. I saw many such as yourself. If there is a slight resemblance of a balance in this game, it is in some part thanks to my past contributions (of course not solely me, Free, S4v4g3, CC123, Nubtro, and many other barbros. I was just a numerical global strategist). My approach is a proven approach. Accuracy is irrelevant. Internal consistency all that matters.

Your tables, averages, ideas are all for a single agenda. You guys got it. Time for silence.

More talk to you is a waste of time. You are living in your own bubble so stay there then.


Talking down to others the way you are isn’t going to giveyour graphs or analysis any worthwhile leverage I’m afraid. And the majority of the clears focus on a tiny smattering of builds (usually 1-3). True balance would have more builds capable of reaching higher GRs, not just a select few.

Newsflash: There is no hope of actual balance in the game as long as multiple multipliers are in use. As long as it remains that way, you can forget balance. You can attempt to put a build in a more “balanced” place, but a class on the whole? That isn’t happening. That’s where D2 shined - its mostly linear system not only had a ceiling, but it allowed for better balancing as there weren’t tons of different multipliers for every class and/or set.

Bit of an ego there, wouldn’t you say? I’m actually sensing a superiority complex going on as well. Here’s another newsflash: no one person here or elsewhere is to thank for any “semblance of balance”. It comes from a multitude of sources.

No amount of arrogance is going to make your “work” look more accurate. It’s only going to make people dislike you and by proxy view your work with skepticism, if not outright hostility.

Lose the attitude and you might gain some credibility.


This thread is a reactiom to those calling nerfs for balance which we were against. I dont talk like this but this guy pushed us to our limits. Even we tell in a civilized way he rejects to accept certain facts. There is a background of this discussion that has been going on in Barb forums. So sorry for giving this impression.


People that don’t barb. Don’t understand barb. WW is the go to farming build because of it’s speed. If you want to push, then go hota maybe charge. WW gets too squishy at higer levels IMO. Hota is far better for surviving. Increasing dam for ww would have been really cool. Also, please don’t call it easy mode if you’ve never played it.

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LoL, you do know that nothing you wrote is set in stone?
The barb can be what ever blizzard allows it to be.

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I was talking about the present state of barb. That’s how it is.

And it is changing!
WW Rend barb will be pushing 100+ gr without augs.

Isn’t this post about blizz nerfing ww?

And presently with the nerf what I wrote is likely true.

Guess we have to wait and see.

PUSHING gr 100? PUSHING? Who even says that? PEOPLE ARE DOING SPEED 120’s. Where have you been?


1/2 strength Rend will be a lot stronger than barb is presently live.

oof, you’re level of stupidity is shocking. Currently barb is at 133 with R6 Hota. Can’t wait to farm up another 3k paragon to do… you guessed it 133 with ww/rend. So strong, so good.


I guess that one remaining Dev on D3 is not playing a Barb.