Barbarians Unite Pls. Nice People spotted :)

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Prokahn-1764

their righteous claim “nerf is ok for balance”

I rather be accused of trying to be righteous than unethical.

[Hadd-1524]

@MicroRNA-1507

I rather be accused of trying to be righteous than unethical.

You’re not ethical, you’re just a troll, and a very boring one. NEEEEEXT

[Windigo-1563]

You ever get an itch where you can’t quite reach?

[Prokahn-1764]

Disclaimer: Includes sarcastic language with comical intentions (for those edgelords out there )

Ok, all you balance lovers out there. I went out of my way to show something so obvious with charts and tables. Here is my proposition:

I looked at my Era 11 analysis and collated all the clears together and calculated the normal distributions and means of all the clears along with all 7000 people’s clears.

Here is a table of the averages

Class	Mean Grift	Average Paragon
Barbarian	110	2574
Wizard	124	3901
Necromancer	108	3513
Monk	109	2932
Demon Hunter	120	4083
Crusader	114	3437
Witch Doctor	113	2896
7000 Players	114	3319

Now if this is not clear enough, the normal distribution of those clears. There you will see a big, thick red line. That is the distribution of the 7000 clears of all players across all classes. Those poor souls, 60-70% of them will not even pass 120. What a shame.

Take a very good and deep look at this chart and you will see two nasty outliers, I mean not imaginary but factual outliers: Wizards and Demon Hunters. Look at those, look closely. If necessary zoom in, pinch your eyes and try to come up with some imaginary fiction. Nada. These two classes must be nerfed to oblivion for the sake of holy balance.

Now lets be the torchlight of balance and bring justice and equality to this land and Let’s balance the classes according to the red line where all the common peasants exist:

Class	Ave. Paragon	Ave. Bld. Nerf (-GR)	Ave. Bld. Buff (+GR)	Top Bld. Nerf	Top Bld. Buff	Nerfed Dmg	Buffed Dmg
Wizards	3901	-10 GR	x	x	x	-80%	x
Demon Hunters	4083	-6 GR	x	x	x	-61%	x
Crusaders	3437	0 GR	0 GR	x	x	0%	0%
Witch Doctors	2896	x	+1 GR	x	x	x	+17%
Barbarians	2574	x	+4 GR	x	x	x	+87%
Monks	2932	x	+5 GR	x	x	x	+119%
Necromancers	3513	x	+6 GR	-8 GR	x	-72%	+156%

Note these are average buff and nerf values. Some passive agressive classes have weird builds that magically clears very high (140s) and at the same time with a very wide normal distribution curve. This is the manifestation of a poorly designed class with their over powered long cooldown skills that has less reliability compared to the in your face kind of attacks. So higher risk with higher returns kind of a slot machine to be precise ( I mean Necromancer). So for the sake of holy balance their top builds must be nerfed to oblivions’ side walls or their mechanics need to be fixed properly to address that weird distribution.

On the other hand, look at the distribution curves of Wizards and Demon hunters, they are like Rambo’s commando blade sticking around 120s and 125s.

Now, what happens if we apply the resulting holy balance, see below.

Holy mother of Jesus, " balance ". B A L A N C E . Even Anakin Skywalker could not bring balance initially but we can bring balance in this 7 years old game. Omg such a big achievement. World is safe now.

Now I am coming to those WW Rend barb OP OMG teen wave groups:

• Even if WW barb were OP, which is not, it is not going to elevate the whole barbarian curve to wizard levels.
• As you know, barbarian players are the only cool guys in these forums so they like to play more than 1 build.
• To be precise we have many stickied main builds as you might observe on the main page of barbs. So just WW is not going to shift the whole power curve.
• So you don’t have to worry for losing your top DPS spot, so calm your horses.
• No one will want WW barb as DPS because if you ever played a WW barb with Rend and AD, you would know that at 130s the moment you rend, it can cause severe lag like bending space and time and it feels like you just entered a black hole. Your PC will stop and you will have plenty of time to think of your life choices.

So shut it. WW Rend is where it should be. Any further discussion bears no fruit as your trolling attempts are too obvious. But who are we kidding, devs will probably be affected by your kind as they were in the past examples. So…

F.

“B A L A N C E”

[Bastich-1850]

Holy … Is this trolly-polly still taking a MicroSCOPE and using it as a crystal ball.

If, buts, what about…

Far, far away, there one day might be balance in a Diablo game. Far away… really far away. But never fear I hear there is a queue. Now that queue is far away too so… How about joining the far queue.

[MicroRNA-1507]

First, you should make your post in general discussion so that more can see your analysis rather than the barb forum. It would be interesting to me to have feedback from more people. I suspect that you will not because additional peer review would be illuminating.

@Prokahn-1764

Here is a table of the averages

Class	Mean Grift	Average Paragon
Barbarian	110	2574
Wizard	124	3901
Necromancer	108	3513
Monk	109	2932
Demon Hunter	120	4083
Crusader	114	3437
Witch Doctor	113	2896
7000 Players	114	3319

When you made your greater rift efficiency calculation, you explained why this type of analysis is invalid because you do not know the number of players playing each class competitively.

Lets look at this using rank order.

Class	Relative Grift Rank	Relative Paragon Rank
Barbarian	5	7
Wizard	1	2
Necromancer	7	3
Monk	6	5
Demon Hunter	2	1
Crusader	3	4
Witch Doctor	4	6

One of the obvious things is that the average paragon appears correlated with mean grift. This would be expected if there was a bias in the number of people pushing each class on the leaderboard. As several people have told you, people gravitate to playing the strongest classes and away from the weakest.

Your data strongly suggest a player bias in what classes they prefer to play/push the leaderboard.

@Prokahn-1764

As you know, barbarian players are the only cool guys in these forums so they like to play more than 1 build.

Really the only cool guys"? If barbs are using poorly performing sets as you claim, are you surprised that barbs overall are not clearing higher rifts as well as other classes? A corollary to this is that many barbs do not play builds with gimmicky mechanics and therefore your whole argument about this completely schewing greater rift efficiency can not be true.

@Prokahn-1764

To be precise we have many stickied main builds as you might observe on the main page of barbs. So just WW is not going to shift the whole power curve.

This is proof of your argument. Most players do not come to the forum at all.

@Prokahn-1764

Even though WW barb is OP, which is not, it is not going to elevate the whole barbarian curve to wizard levels.

Is ww/rend OP or not? Wizard are being nerfed.

@Prokahn-1764

So you don’t have to worry for losing your top DPS spot, so calm your horses.

Many have asked for class balance. I have counted. There are more than 50 players who have asked for the barb buff to be less strong in either PTR feedback/GD. These are players who main all classes including barbarians.

@Prokahn-1764

Note these are average buff and nerf values. Some passive agressive classes have weird builds that magically clears very high (140s) and at the same time with a very wide normal distribution curve. This is the manifestation of a poorly designed class with their over powered long cooldown skills that has less reliability compared to the in your face kind of attacks. So higher risk with higher returns kind of a slot machine to be precise ( I mean Necromancer). So for the sake of holy balance their top builds must be nerfed to oblivions’ side walls or their mechanics need to be fixed properly to address that weird distribution.

This sounds like you are advocating for a nerf to necromancer’s top build in era 11. This is already happening with the nerf in patch 2.6.7 to necromancers. The build in question has nothing to do with long cooldowns. If you knew other classes better, than you would know that this relates to thorn mechanics.

@Prokahn-1764

Now lets be the torchlight of balance and bring justice and equality to this land and Let’s balance the classes according to the red line where all the common peasants exist:

You are referring to players as “common peasants”. This is inflammatory.

[Prokahn-1764]

[Roidraged-1214]

@MicroRNA-1507

The problem with your assertion is how many of the big barb players pushed the PTR.

No response? 20 characters

[Prokahn-1764]

@MicroRNA-1507

You are referring to players as “common peasants”. This is inflammatory.

Sorry I don’t know any antitrollery foods though.

[DIONGWON-1224]

He’s not gonna listen, just save some energy Pro. D4 is coming, and barb is featured in there. Something for all of us to get away from this troll here.

[Windigo-1563]

@DIONGWON-1224

Something for all of us to get away from this troll here.

I don’t know about that, there is going to be some brand new OP builds for the new guy on the block namely the Druid in D4 and the Dev’s won’t let him or her lose without some super buffs so people will absolutely want to play the class, remember the release of the Necromancer. So Micro will take up the Banner of Balance and crusade against the Druids armed with his graphs, tables, and all.
Before all that I presume the Dev’s give the Monks, Witch Drs and Crusaders their turn at some well deserved buffs before D4 comes out, so that will give Micro even more practice to save Diablo IV from the “Curse Of The Imbalancer”.

[Prokahn-1764]

anonymous

[MicroRNA-1507]

Prokahn,

You should post your new analysis in general discussion. It lacks visibility.

[Hadd-1524]

Is it just me or the Druid looked more “barbarian” than the barb itself?

[Roidraged-1214]

RIGHT. Yo the druid is bigger than the barb. I was like wtf.

[Meteorblade-2266]

@MicroRNA-1507

The fact of the matter is I value class balance. Always have and always will

Perhaps I missed them. Could you direct me to the threads you started asking for Wizards and Necromancers to be nerfed at any point during the last year?

[S4v4G3-11925]

Hey fellas, we are off to good start in D4. I’m watching Kripp playing it right now and guess what I hear first

“it feels like Barbarian’s damage is very low, these quill rats don’t die with fury spending ability. Both Druid and Sorceress deal significantly more damage”

EDIT

LOL “Looks like Barbarian may be a tank/utility rather than dealing damage” - comment while playing Druid right after.

It is too funny. So early in the demo and we are back at it again lol

[Roidraged-1214]

lamentation nerfed already…

[Meteorblade-2266]

Yep, damage bonus no longer apparent on the belt in the updated 2.6.7 build available at BlizzCon…

Lord Fluffy

I guess we were all going to be having fun wrong.

[clueso-2790]

@jay-1401

So no one can have anything ‘fun’ because it may detract form the fun of others? That’s actually crazy, and in terms of ideology it stinks.

I’d like equality of opportunity as opposed to your model of equality of outcome.

This here is neither the real world, nor is this about politics, this is a game…

In order to have equality of opportunity in ths game, all builds need to be at a somewhat even powerlevel, because if they are not, they don’t even have the opportunity to compete…

@jay-1401

Your thinking in regards to this isn’t based in reality relative to this games structure. Such a deep flaw in your logic is going to (and does) invalidate your arguments, same as in GD.

How so? Elaborate plz.

@jay-1401

Because nerfing the outlier builds doesn’t fix the issues keeping those average builds average. It doesn’t do anything except lower the bar for others. Thats why smart players don’t ask for nerfs in this game; they recognize the structure and realize that gutting one build won’t suddenly make their build more fun. It can also cause harm; if a build that is ‘op’ is nerfed and people can’t get the same level augments/gems etc. it creates an actual power gap that is artificial.

Lowest common denominator only sees a gain for itself in the loss of something for someone else. Thank you for illistrating this so very,very well as per usual on this sort of topic Clue.

I and the D4 devs laugh about such arguments and all the people in this thread that advocate for the “Never Nerf, Always Buff” philosophy.

“[The reason the D3 team went with these massive multipliers was] because they didn’t want to nerf to items for various reasons, but where we are right now is we do wanna do the nerfs, but strategically so it doesn’t mess with the builds. So the plus side of doing nerfs is that such crazy bonuses don’t happen, which is a good thing, because its gonna make more builds much more viable.”

man, man, man,… that all just completely backfired on all of you…